Bekele: the difference

Dr Watson

Lifted from a news piece on the WC website

http://berlin.iaaf.org/news/kind=114/newsid=53240.html

Asked about his personal best at 100 metres Kenenisa replied: “It is 11.00 seconds.”

Is he more of a phenom than Bolt?

walshb

Bekele is a super super super athlete. Awesome.

Now, if Bolt were allowed to train hard for 800 metres, who knows. The guy has
the talent if he applies it and only 23.

I know it's a massive leap from 200 to 400, but Juantorena jumped from 400
to 800, what a double. Bolt is a freak of nature and to watch the guy fast jog
so comfortably and with those massive strides, I would favor Bolt once he
trains for the two lap distance

http://berlin.iaaf.org/mm/document/development/research/05/30/83/20090817081546%5fhttppostedfile%5fwch09%5fm100%5ffinal%5f13529.pdf

If this info is correct, can we assume that at 60 meres, Bolt covered it faster than Green's world record?
Wow!

myflipflops

I would put forward a different opinion of what the difference is between Bekele and his competitors.

Unfounded allegations have no place here though!!!

walshb

I assume you can at least give us a hint. I did read something that
seemed to imply that not all is above board with Bekele. Is it close
to what you are saying. You know, folks here are very touchy if the 'dope'
question arises.

myflipflops

walshb wrote: »

You know, folks here are very touchy if the 'dope'
question arises.

An rightly so in fairness. Allegations, especially made in anonymity are not really productive.

What I will say is that I have my doubts as to the authenticity of Bekele's level of performance.

rovers_runner

He had a fiance once who died while out running with him.
She was very young and had a heart attack, rumours of EPO being a cause but conclusion was ever drawn.

I'd like to think distance running is immune from the drug taking of cycling and athletics but it would be naive on my part.

walshb

pwhite587 wrote: »

An rightly so in fairness. Allegations, especially made in anonymity are not really productive.

What I will say is that I have my doubts as to the authenticity of Bekele's level of performance.

Look, the whole world discusses it, it's no big deal. It's like the elephant in the room.

I hope Bekele is clean. I think he is, but I also understand folks doubting, after all, it's sport, it's money and it's people. It's global and in most sports.

True legend is Kenenisa

dermCu

pwhite587 wrote: »

An rightly so in fairness. Allegations, especially made in anonymity are not really productive.

What I will say is that I have my doubts as to the authenticity of Bekele's level of performance.

What are those doubts based on? Is it just because he's the greatest ever over 10k? Is he just too good? Is it a feeling you have? Or do you actually have some factual basis for the claim?
If you can spot inconsistencies in his levels of performance over the years that’s not the same as accusing him of being juiced up.
If you can, I think that’s a valid topic of conversation. I’m not having a go but if you are going to cast a shadow over the guy you should at least back it up with some valid arguments.

He is as much a phenom as Bolt. It’s hard to compare two guys who are on a whole different level to everyone else in their discipline.

shels4ever

rovers_runner wrote: »

He had a fiance once who died while out running with him.
She was very young and had a heart attack, rumours of EPO being a cause but conclusion was ever drawn.

I'd like to think distance running is immune from the drug taking of cycling and athletics but it would be naive on my part.

I think i'd die if I were out running with him....

myflipflops

dermCu wrote: »

What are those doubts based on?QUOTE]

I have my issues with the Ethiopean system as a whole. I'd love to see the out of competition testing arragements that the Ethiopean Association have in place. I suspect they're non existant.

I have an issue with the involvement of a coach from the old Eastern Europe regime in the training of Ethiopean athletes as a group.

Questions are being asked (rightly) about the Jamaican system at the moment with regard to the group training solely in Jamaican and the lack of out of competition testing.

I would suggest that the Ethiopean system is very similar and therefore open to the same questions and doubts. Bekele is comfoprtably the best and most successful athlete coming out of that system therefore he is naturally open to the same questions.


I am a natural skeptic though!!

Big Ears

He's a special special talent, and has achieved so much for a relatively young age.

Such a great sprinter over the last lap or two aswell, he's upper leg muscles seem so much bigger than his competitors.

Running Bing

I think people can be a little over sceptical.

Athletics is nothing like cycling. Cycling is a completely different culture where the stakes are known and doping is pretty much accepted. The sports cant be compared.

Thats not naive, thats just looking at the facts.

Hard Worker

pwhite587 wrote: »

dermCu wrote: »

What are those doubts based on?QUOTE]

I have my issues with the Ethiopean system as a whole. I'd love to see the out of competition testing arragements that the Ethiopean Association have in place. I suspect they're non existant.

I have an issue with the involvement of a coach from the old Eastern Europe regime in the training of Ethiopean athletes as a group.

Questions are being asked (rightly) about the Jamaican system at the moment with regard to the group training solely in Jamaican and the lack of out of competition testing.

I would suggest that the Ethiopean system is very similar and therefore open to the same questions and doubts. Bekele is comfoprtably the best and most successful athlete coming out of that system therefore he is naturally open to the same questions.


I am a natural skeptic though!!

So, basically, what you are saying is that you havn't a clue about the Ethiopian testing system, yet you have issues with it. :rolleyes:

ss43

pwhite587 wrote: »

I have my issues with the Ethiopean system as a whole. I'd love to see the out of competition testing arragements that the Ethiopean Association have in place. I suspect they're non existant.

I have an issue with the involvement of a coach from the old Eastern Europe regime in the training of Ethiopean athletes as a group.

Questions are being asked (rightly) about the Jamaican system at the moment with regard to the group training solely in Jamaican and the lack of out of competition testing.

I would suggest that the Ethiopean system is very similar and therefore open to the same questions and doubts. Bekele is comfoprtably the best and most successful athlete coming out of that system therefore he is naturally open to the same questions.

I am a natural skeptic though!!

IAAF do extra testing in countries without their own testing systems. This pretty much removes any advantage their athletes would have with regard to testing.

If an athlete is in the IAAF testing pool - which the good athletes are - then they are subject to out of competition testing. It's just done by the IAAF rather than their National Anti Doping Organisation. This could possibly suggest that the testing is more reliable as it is done by an external body!

Why would Bekele bother? Would he not just try do it cleanly? He has a lot to spare. He's clearly a great competitor. To be that good a competitor requires a level of self-belief that wouldn't lend itself to cheating in order to make certain what was already a strong possibility in my opinion.

downthemiddle

Any doubts about Bekele first arose when he competed in the World cross country championships in Dublin in 2001. These championships were the first to use blood tests for EPO. Bekele refused to take the test on "religious grounds". A stand off of more than 2 hours ensued before he was persuaded by the Ethiopian management that the reprecussions for not taking the test would lead to a long term ban. He obviously passed the test, unlike some other athletes at the champioships, and has passed every other test since.
Questions have been asked about the Ethiopian testing system , but it should be noted that that some of the countries asking these questions have been guilty of suspect attitudes to drug testing in the past where their marquee athletes have been concerned.

YFlyer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSSBtxvd5BI&feature=youtu.be

World Record 12:37
Last 4k in 10:03
Last 3k in 7:31
Last 2k in 5:00
Last 1k in 2:29
Last 400m in 57
Last 200m in 27
Last 100m in under 13 seconds

Itziger

Fantastic stuff. How come it took so long to get on YouTube?? Bizarre, no?

G-Money

I don't know if its the IAAF or who would be in charge, but there's probably lots of athletics material out there that people would love to see. Unfortunately on YouTube sometimes a lot of the stuff is bad quality audio and video but I reckon there's money to be made releasing this stuff and giving it the proper treatment. Not just Bekele, but lots of athletes!

M cebee

he looked like he'd been out for a sunday stroll after he crossed the line

i hope he's clean anyhow

BeepBeep67

I loved his effortless stride 2/3's out the back

YFlyer

He would have beating Komen 2 mile record that day. Not sure about the 3000m.

rom

M cebee wrote: »

he looked like he'd been out for a sunday stroll after he crossed the line

i hope he's clean anyhow

Well he knocked 2 secs off the old one so really over 5k you can't be asking such questions without asking the same of Haile Gebrselassie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNTcmiEo4M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnyx06yjhU4

YFlyer

rom wrote: »

Well he knocked 2 secs off the old one so really over 5k you can't be asking such questions without asking the same of Haile Gebrselassie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNTcmiEo4M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnyx06yjhU4

Lol at Geb pushing the pacer at 6:14 in.

M cebee

rom wrote: »

Well he knocked 2 secs off the old one so really over 5k you can't be asking such questions without asking the same of Haile Gebrselassie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNTcmiEo4M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnyx06yjhU4

same manager

i hope they're principled and breaking world records and dominating for nearly 2 decades against other cheats and epo users clean

david vs goliath and all that