Walk breaks?

cdelboy

First year training for the DCM (i've completed a few half marathons in the past) and I've started reading Jeff Galloways book on marathons. He suggests something that I have never heard of / read anywhere else before.

He is a massive fan of walk breaks during all lsr's whilst training and also suggests that they should be used on the day of the race itself! Basically he says that you should walk 1 min for every 2 - 8 mins you run. In training he says that there is no difference between running consistently for 20 miles and running 20 miles with walk breaks - the body gets the same endurance benefit from both. In races he suggests that walk breaks can improve your marathon time as you are in a stronger position for the last few miles! The masssive overall benefit is that the body will have a much better chance of remaining injury free when walk breaks are involved!

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the above? Has anyone ever tried this 1) in training, or 2) in the marathon itself?

tunney

cdelboy wrote: »

First year training for the DCM (i've completed a few half marathons in the past) and I've started reading Jeff Galloways book on marathons. He suggests something that I have never heard of / read anywhere else before.

He is a massive fan of walk breaks during all lsr's whilst training and also suggests that they should be used on the day of the race itself! Basically he says that you should walk 1 min for every 2 - 8 mins you run. In training he says that there is no difference between running consistently for 20 miles and running 20 miles with walk breaks - the body gets the same endurance benefit from both. In races he suggests that walk breaks can improve your marathon time as you are in a stronger position for the last few miles! The masssive overall benefit is that the body will have a much better chance of remaining injury free when walk breaks are involved!

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the above? Has anyone ever tried this 1) in training, or 2) in the marathon itself?

I've been doing walk breaks for a few years now, the improvement in recovery time is huge, as is the fact that its not a three hour run its an interval session

its getting very popular and I was in fact listening to two different podcasts with elite coaches who use it with their marathoners, ultra runners and IM athletes. They see a huge benefit in it for up to 2:30 marathoners. One of the coaches is Bobby McGee from South Africa who is now doing further reseach into run/walk with Tim Noakes.

Its something that needs to be trained as the walk isn't normal walking but should be very similar to your running style as its the transition to and from walking where the technique works or fails.

GoHardOrGoHome

I used walk breaks during the Connemara Ultra. The important thing in a race or a training run is to do it from the start. Not when you get tired. Don't run for as long as you can and *then* start walk breaks.

I ran for 8 minutes, 2 minutes walk. 8 minutes run, 2 minutes walk. Right from the very start. It kept me feeling fresh for a long time.

There were a few downhill bits which were easier for me to keep running on. After about 22/24 miles I had to keep running and stop taking the walking breaks as it was getting to painful to keep *starting back* running. This is probably what Tunney is talking about. The need to practice the transitioning between walking and running. (I hadn't really done adequate training for the ultra itself and also hadn't been doing the walking breaks in training for that long either).

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

I've been doing walk breaks for a few years now, the improvement in recovery time is huge, as is the fact that its not a three hour run its an interval session

its getting very popular and I was in fact listening to two different podcasts with elite coaches who use it with their marathoners, ultra runners and IM athletes. They see a huge benefit in it for up to 2:30 marathoners. One of the coaches is Bobby McGee from South Africa who is now doing further reseach into run/walk with Tim Noakes.

Its something that needs to be trained as the walk isn't normal walking but should be very similar to your running style as its the transition to and from walking where the technique works or fails.

How did you go about the style change for the walk. I find that if I eve take a walk break or stop I suffer on the first mile once I start running again. The change in style during the walk must help with this?

tunney

shels4ever wrote: »

How did you go about the style change for the walk. I find that if I eve take a walk break or stop I suffer on the first mile once I start running again. The change in style during the walk must help with this?

Listen to episode 170 of IM talk (from itunes free) for the interview with bobby mcgee. mcgee covers the reasons for run/walk, who does it and what the technqie is.

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

Listen to episode 170 of IM talk (from itunes free) for the interview with bobby mcgee. mcgee covers the reasons for run/walk, who does it and what the technqie is.

Cheers

cdelboy

tunney wrote: »

I've been doing walk breaks for a few years now, the improvement in recovery time is huge, as is the fact that its not a three hour run its an interval session

its getting very popular and I was in fact listening to two different podcasts with elite coaches who use it with their marathoners, ultra runners and IM athletes. They see a huge benefit in it for up to 2:30 marathoners. One of the coaches is Bobby McGee from South Africa who is now doing further reseach into run/walk with Tim Noakes.

Its something that needs to be trained as the walk isn't normal walking but should be very similar to your running style as its the transition to and from walking where the technique works or fails.

Thanks tunney, it definitely seems to be something that would need to be well practised in training - must see if I can catch that podcast and might even try it for lsr this sunday. Its interesting that it can be/is used for such fast marathon times. Galloways gives an expample of a guy who used walk breaks and ran a 2:07! I'm aiming for a sub 3hr marathon so I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that I might be better off walking every 8 mins!!

Obviously if you have a time target for the marathon you would need to do a lot of practice around how fast you would need to run each 7/8 min interval and also what pace you should actually be walking at...

wizwill

tunney wrote: »

Listen to episode 170 of IM talk (from itunes free) for the interview with bobby mcgee. mcgee covers the reasons for run/walk, who does it and what the technqie is.

+1

The episode on walk run is good episode, Mc Gee is sold on it. I think he advocates a 9/1 rather than an 8/2. I think you will find Triathletes (especially ironmen) more open to this kind of trial and error "tinkering" than plain runners, personally i think whatever works for you.

I remember reading an account of Frank Shorter's the first time he won the boston marathon and some people commented that it wasnt a real win because he had walked during the race, he didnt care and why should he.

Wud love to hear how you get on, keep us posted.

TFBubendorfer

cdelboy wrote: »

Its interesting that it can be/is used for such fast marathon times. Galloways gives an expample of a guy who used walk breaks and ran a 2:07! I'm aiming for a sub 3hr marathon so I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that I might be better off walking every 8 mins!!

Before you get too enamoured with Gallowalking, read this: http://web.archive.org/web/20060501041803/http://www.scottdouglas.biz/whopperwatch.htm
Amongst other things, it refers to (and debunks) that very 2:07 claim.

tunney

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Before you get too enamoured with Gallowalking, read this: http://web.archive.org/web/20060501041803/http://www.scottdouglas.biz/whopperwatch.htm
Amongst other things, it refers to (and debunks) that very 2:07 claim.

Yes, I didn't want to rain on that parade but the South African research says its valid up to a 2:30 marathon, not faster.

tunney

The way I look at it if Noakes is getting involved and is co-authoring papers then its pretty valid

TFBubendorfer

wizwill wrote: »

I remember reading an account of Frank Shorter's the first time he won the boston marathon and some people commented that it wasnt a real win because he had walked during the race, he didnt care and why should he.

Frank Shorter never won the Boston marathon.

I guess you are referring to Bill Rodgers instead. The first time he won Boston, he stopped 5 times, 4 times to drink water and once to re-tie his laces. There was no walking involved. (link here: http://therunnerinside.blogspot.com/2009/04/boston-marathon-facts.html )

cdelboy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Before you get too enamoured with Gallowalking, read this: http://web.archive.org/web/20060501041803/http://www.scottdouglas.biz/whopperwatch.htm
Amongst other things, it refers to (and debunks) that very 2:07 claim.

I'm going home to burn that book!! :mad:

wizwill

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Frank Shorter never won the Boston marathon.

I guess you are referring to Bill Rodgers instead. The first time he won Boston, he stopped 5 times, 4 times to drink water and once to re-tie his laces. There was no walking involved. (link here: http://therunnerinside.blogspot.com/2009/04/boston-marathon-facts.html )

Apologies it was Bill Rodgers and not Frank Shorter.

A reference from "Complete idiots guide to Running" by Bill Rodgers, page 255 "I mean, when i won the Boston Marathon for the first time in 1975, I stopped for water a few times, which involved slowing to a walk for a few steps"

TFBubendorfer

wizwill wrote: »

Apologies it was Bill Rodgers and not Frank Shorter.

A reference from "Complete idiots guide to Running" by Bill Rodgers, page 255 "I mean, when i won the Boston Marathon for the first time in 1975, I stopped for water a few times, which involved slowing to a walk for a few steps"

Ok, but slowing for a few steps to enable you to drink properly is not the same kind of walking that Galloway is talking about.

tunney

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Ok, but slowing for a few steps to enable you to drink properly is not the same kind of walking that Galloway is talking about.

Lets remove Galloway from the conversation as I don't respect his opinions. But you are right, slowing for a few steps is not the same as implementing a run/walk strategy.

wizwill

I agree.

I think some people will avoid the walk/run because of the whole ego thing (it’s discussed on the IM podcast and in the one the week following) my point about Bill Rodgers was that he won Boston and he had people on his back about walking (not run/walking), so you no matter who you are or what time you do you will always get people saying “ah you walked though”, if Bill Rodgers can show the two fingers then so can the average joe who decides to run/walk.

The walk/run strategy has its place though but it wouldn’t be for me as I really enjoy the continuous motion of running, the stop start nature of run/walk would throw me. In fact although more educated having listened to Bobby McGee part of me wishes I hadn’t, because in the depths of despair on mile 23 the last thing I want to be thinking is that “I will just walk for 1 minute and make it up”. Mc Gee mentions it being useful up to 2.30, I would find that highly questionable, I think it could be very useful for someone that is finding they are slowing seriously after 30/32kms on a regular basis.

--amadeus--

Who would have thought run / walk would be so controversial?!

Personal abuse & general crap removed from the thread. Next person to insult another member gets a ban. Please stay on topic and civil.

delboyfagan

Amadeus,

Agree with your comments and suggestions wholeheartedly.

Derek

IronTractorBoy

I have used the run/walk for Connemara Ultra, Dublin marathon (last year) and planning to use it on the Eireman this weekend. I used the 25/5 run/walk ratio which also helps getting regular nutrition in the walk breaks.
This was due to the distance for the ultra and recovering from an ankle injury before Dublin.

TFBubendorfer

When I started out running 5 years ago I actually did it with walking breaks. I did not read Galloway's book, but I found plenty of info on the internet.

It was fine during training, but at the actual marathon I was too embarrassed to keep to my walking breaks. This was my first ever road race, nobody else was walking, and I felt like a million people staring at me at the 2 or 3 walking breaks I did. I ended up running most of the first 18 miles, and then run/walk between cramping breaks to the finish. The last 8 miles weren't the most fun I've ever had.

I changed tactics for my second marathon, half a year later. I walked through the water stops, but ran everything else. Hal Higdon mentions this tactic on his website. The result was even more disastrous, I cramped from mile 14 and did the same dead man shuffling/cramping/walking death march for no less than 12 miles.

Since then I've run through my marathons with much better results. I think I need to keep running or my rhythm gets thrown completely. I have no issues with walking as such, and I don't think a 2:59 marathon with walk breaks is worth any less than a 2:59 without. I just don't believe that it would help me to achieve a faster time. I guess, just like everything else in running, it may well be an individual thing.

Aimman

IronTractorBoy wrote: »

I have used the run/walk for Connemara Ultra, Dublin marathon (last year) and planning to use it on the Eireman this weekend. I used the 25/5 run/walk ratio which also helps getting regular nutrition in the walk breaks.
This was due to the distance for the ultra and recovering from an ankle injury before Dublin.

This is good news for me, because fter the DCM in October, I'm getting into preperation for the Connemara Ultra for something different, but wasnt sure about the level of training required to get up to 39.9 miles. But the run/walk method might be something for me to consider to keep me going.

jaymack75

I did the run / walk (10/1) for almost all my long runs in the training for the conn ultra. I found it allowed me to increase the mileage quite significantly, without too much aftermath of recovery from the longer sessions. I also found that the times for these sessions weren't much slower than when I was running only (say 1-2 mins per 12k)

I had planned to use the same strategy during the race, but after 10mins when I had my 1min walk, it was painful watching the two runners I was comfortably running with heading off into the distance! I still did some walking, but decided not to strictly keep it to 10mins, but saved the walks for inclines / water stations etc.

Looking at my pacing during the race, I did suffer quite a lot in the last third and slowed a fair bit. Maybe if I stuck with the 10/1 all the way I could have ended up with a faster time overall

I'm doing the Eireman on Sunday and this time I am going to use the run / walk and see how I get on.......fingers crossed:)

IronTractorBoy

Jay are you also doing the full? I may see you on our walk breaks!!

jaymack75

yep - doing the full.......it's my first one, so not sure how the legs are going to feel by the start of the run, but I'd rather do the run/walk than fade too badly towards the end by trying just to run all the way

Happy racing

IronTractorBoy

This will be my 3rd but the previous 2 I have ran the first 10km at about 1 min/mile slower than my 10km pb and then my legs went. I used the run/walk 25/5 ratio on a half IM earlier in the year in the heat which I felt fine on, so I am planning to use it in this.

I should be easily spotted in pirate kit (yellow and black with skull and crossbones), subject to the weather and the amount of layers I will have on.