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Cutting out Sockets from Slabs?

  • 18-08-2009 10:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭


    Just a general question regarding Slabbing. I've gone through my house and the slabbing seems like a rather messy job. While I will admit I know bugger all about this I was just curious as to how exact the slabbing process is normally?

    I've included some sample images below, now there some better and worse cutouts throughout.

    So I was wondering if this is an issue I need to raise and how it could be rectified. My electrician is concerned that if it's not sorted now when he goes to tighten the sockets into place it may cause cracking.

    Basically I just want to make sure that the plastering has the best possible base to start from.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    This is insulated plasterboard ?

    The insulation is missing - which will give raise to condensation - in the worst possible place - at your electrical outlets

    Slowly the copper wire will oxidise - go green . This will increase resistance - and your ESB bills . The cables will overheat and may cause a fire . And someone may get a nasty "lift" off a power point or light switch one day

    Hire professionals.

    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    .... and are those back boxes hilti nailed to the walls ?

    Jeez ... rough stuff


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    Not sure what the boxes are placed to the wall with, but the Electrician is well known in the region I work in, and does alot of high profile work and came well recommended.

    The builder also came wel recommended.

    So given that the work has been done so far, how is the best way to fix it? Would it be adviced to cut out larger around the boxes and then fill them back in with the slab so that it fits exactly. Instead of trying to fill with bonding compound or some other filler (which I think would just crack.)

    Basically I am looking for the best possible way to explain this so that I get it done right. It's my house and my money, so I don't want my lack of knowledge preventing me from getting things done right. So any help on how I can have this resolved would be appreciated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭uprising


    To be honest that's a botched job, down to the slabbers/plasterer's, I'd normally cut for the patress boxes out exactly to size, in correct position, then pull the wires through as the slab is going up, then use pvc boxes with wings, which go in after slab is fitted.
    It just looks so wrong, it's all over the place, they will actually be able to solve it if they're half decent plasterers with a lot of bonding, but I'd be a bit worried, seeing how they can't cut a straight line in the correct position or to the right size.

    Yes they are hilti nailed to the wall, and its hard to say if they are even straight, as we only have the slabbing as reference.

    Actually I'd tell them to take the slabs off, use a measuring tape and square, re-cut for the sockets/switches, they are supposed to be cut to the size of the backbox where the boxes actually are, doesn't look like they know what they're doing, and your electrician didnt help matters by hilti-ing backboxes to wall.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭GoneShootin


    As per uprising, we didn't fit the boxes to any of the external facing walls as they will have the insulated slabs applied to them - hence the boxes will fit into the slabs rather than the wall.

    Looks like someone messed up I'm afraid ninjaBob! Not the end of the world mind, but very messy!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    So just that I am 100% clear:

    All external walls should not have the box mounted to it rather it should be sitting on the insulated slab (thus not touching the cold wall?).

    Regarding the slabbing, it needs to be cleaned up so that it perfectly fits each box neatly. If this requires pullin down the slabs and doing it again, or cutting out the correct shapes and getting everything lined up evenly.

    I want to be very clear before I start going after the responsible people.

    Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    The boxes should be screwed to the wall - level . The back boxes should have oval slots which allow for "tweeking" to get the box level before the screw is set tight . Hilti fixing is just bad , bad , bad .....

    The innermost face of the back box should flush up the the plaster face so that when the face plate goes on the back box and the faceplate actually touch . As built the faceplate will crush against the the plaster face .

    Terrible workmanship .

    If you can - keep elecs off the external walls with insulated plasterboard . Where un avoidable - insert min 20mm insulation in between the wall and back box .

    You need an attentive consultant to oversee the build - yours is a graphic series of snaphots indicating of the false economy of not making that appointment .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,686 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Its all little patches of slab. It seems in no case have they actually cut a hole out of the middle of a board, they just seem to have chopped off the full slab at bottom/top/side of socket & then start another slab. Its very bad work. apart from the gaps around the sockets, you have way too many joints. The walls should have more or less continuous boards top to bottom with the vertical joint every 1200mm.
    If that was my house, I would fit another 12mm slab to the face of this right around the house installed properly.
    The way it is is just very poor. It looks like the guys doing the slabs were a bit thick & couldnt really measure anything so just held the slab up against the wall, chop it off level with the socket and then set about patching in the gaps. Joke really. Get on to your builder together with your engineer and get him to firstly admit that its not right and then see what he plans to do about it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 265 ✭✭firesidechat


    I do drywall installation for a living .
    If any of my guys produced work like that i would be out of
    business.Insulated slabs are dear enough to buy and you are entitled to
    demand the job be redone at no cost to you.
    If thay are using mushroom fixings to mount onto block walls ,use the metal one's 12 fixings per board. All factory edges on boards should join.
    There are way too many good men out of work these days.
    Do not accept shoddy work.
    Did you get many tenders for drylining?
    Sometimes we get what we pay for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    I got 5 different quotes for DryLining / Plastering, all from recommended builders / plasters.

    The guy who was selected was within the mid region of the quotes. Not so cheap that you would question why he was that cheap, but not on the uber expensive end of the scale either.

    I'll get my Engineer and Him together along with the electrician to ensure everything is done right.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    Was just talking with my engineer and he says that there is nothing wrong with the slabbing and that the sockets on external walls are always fitted to the block.

    Do I need another engineer on this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    yes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭cork1


    the slabbing is crazy! im a carpenter and i slab at times. if i did a job like this id be joining the dole queue! and as for the socket boxes when theyre fixed to the block they are fixed on with rawlplugs and screws and need to be level. with a hilti gun you havent a hope of getting them right and when fitting the front to the socket you have little room to level it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    ninjabob - if you don't mind saying -

    who did you use to
    1. obtain planning permission
    2. obtain a contractor having first prepared tender documents
    1. what contract have you signed with the builder
    2. what is the engineer appointed to do - is it simply to sign to draw down loan stage payments ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    I used one engineer to draw up the initial plans and apply for planning permission.

    I then took these plans to another engineer (second set of eyes) to approve and do the construction drawings. This same engineering company was brought on board to certify each stage of the development as well as providing certs to obtain the money from the bank.

    I didn't prepare any tender documents, I got recommendations from people and engineers. I met each contractor on site and discussed exactly what we wanted, obviously certain aspects would have fallen under their own professional experience which was to be approved by the engineer. (I'm not a builder / tradesman / engineer so I am not qualified to comment on certain areas.)

    With this particular contractor I received a full quotation with a full breakdown of all the materials I needed to purchase for them and the work that was to be done. For plastering & insulating inside (including cost of materials) it was going to cost €17,000 (outside cost €5500). This was signed by the contractor

    The insulation breakdown was:

    135 8x4x50 Insulated Slab
    150 8x4x12.5 Slab
    60 Packs of RafterLock 100mil insulation
    50m squared of Rockwool.

    Although my initial count of what was delievered to site:

    44 Cozy Board
    85 Slabs
    12 Rockwool

    Obviously there are more materials brought in since this count but I'll be taking a full count this weekend of whats on the walls.

    I have also brought in NEA to do the report, airtightness and final cert. (They are also saying sockets are mounted to the wall). Now overall I've not had any problems with the build, but because I photograph everything on site every day, I'm finding the sockets have been cut out a little too roughly for my liking and I am fearful about the plastering being a bit naf.

    From my point I want to:

    1. Clearly point out to the engineers what concerns I have, in writing so I have a record.

    2. Clearly point out my concerns to the contractor I have in writing as well.

    Then proceed to find a resolution, if I have any plastering problems down the road the engineers will be responsible for it as will the overall builder for the project.


    I should also point out that this is the first part of the project that I didn't have 100% control over, as my building supply company went bust, meaning that the contractor was responsible for supplying the materials. Up until now I have supplied everything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    You are in effect your own architect , qs and contractor . You can only rectify matters yourself . Unless the plastering issues are structural ( which they are not ) your engineers will say no problem" . Noting complaints in writing to your direct labour force means nothing . You should be stopping them and making them correct bad work now . ( Believe me - they know your are not from a construction background that shows in the photos ).

    Establish for yourself now

    Who will certify that the design of the building ( all aspects - not just structural ) complies with b regs

    Who will certify that the construction of the building ( all aspects - not just structural ) complies with b regs

    Ninja - I am honestly not trying to trip you up or appear to be clever myself ( .. I hear a chorus of - you'll never pull that off SB :pac: )

    You could do a lot worse than hire a ( possibly now out of work ) Architectural Technicain to be an effective pain in ass on site for you .

    You do need someone


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    Just called the Engineers again

    They will certify the design and build of the house (not just structural) will meet with all aspects of the building regulations.

    Regarding a Architectural Technician, at this point in the game I really can't afford one. I know one could argue looking at the photo's that I can't afford not to hire one. But given that I pay the bills I can withold the money until it's all done right and I am happy with it.

    My engineer seems convinced that nobody would ever invest the time to get slabbing 100% right for each and every socket in the house. (I have alot of sockets). So I can see his point that it's not an exact science, but that's hard to swallow when you are paying for it. He assures me they will verify it's been done right before it's ready to be skimmed, and that they will ensure it's been skimmed correctly.

    I will talk it over with the guys doing the slabbing (after I count up all the slabs that were used.). I'll then ensure it's fixed (ripping down the bad ones and fixing the soso ones).

    I'll let you know how it goes, but once I know what I am meant to look for and how to explain it, I can argue my case more clearly without sounding like a fool.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Good luck Ninja - go mental on them :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭fuchia


    Guy's I can't see the picutres. Are they attachements some where?

    Fuchia


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    I removed them once I confirmed they were not correct (didn't want to give too much away).

    Anyway got the Builder, Electrician, Plasterer and Engineer onsite. I've been assured everything will be fixed accordingly and I'll just keep ontop of things. Once the final plastering is perfect, there are no gaps in insulation and they are not wasting the materials I am paying for I don't mind.

    Out of interest does anyone have a rough price for 1 : 8x4x50 Insulated Slab?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭Carlow52


    ninjaBob wrote: »
    I removed them once I confirmed they were not correct (didn't want to give too much away).

    Out of interest does anyone have a rough price for 1 : 8x4x50 Insulated Slab?

    You could at least had the courtesy to say on your first post that the pictures had been removed. You take us for complete fools.

    I did send you a PM asking what happened the pictures but of course being who you are replying to a PM is beneath you.

    You have a great deal to learn and not just about building.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,547 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Carlow52 wrote: »
    You could at least had the courtesy to say on your first post that the pictures had been removed. You take us for complete fools.

    I did send you a PM asking what happened the pictures but of course being who you are replying to a PM is beneath you.

    You have a great deal to learn and not just about building.
    2 things carlow52.

    1. Why did you PM ninjaBob?

    2. One of the golden rules of posting on boards is that you can attack the post but not the poster. Your attitude at times leaves a lot to be desired.

    Infraction given.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭ninjaBob


    Carlow52 wrote: »
    You could at least had the courtesy to say on your first post that the pictures had been removed. You take us for complete fools.

    I did send you a PM asking what happened the pictures but of course being who you are replying to a PM is beneath you.

    You have a great deal to learn and not just about building.


    There was no edit button available on my first post, so I couldn't. You could have simply asked the question in the thread and you would have gotten a far quicker response as I was watching the thread (not my PM's). But I don't think removing the images so that I could resolve my particular problem warrants such an attack. I simply didn't get around to responding to your PM within 24 hours.

    Anyway as I said earlier I go the problem resolved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,902 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    ninjaBob wrote: »
    are not wasting the materials I am paying for I don't mind.

    Out of interest does anyone have a rough price for 1 : 8x4x50 Insulated Slab?

    Roughly €32 a board from CPD or UVALU

    Mods I have no affiliation to the above companies

    OP - feel free to call any builders suppliers and negotiate for slab.

    Regards.


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