running a pub question

pubcrawler

hi all!
i'm hoping somebody might be able to help me. i'm interested in leasing a pub and i would like to know if it is in breach of my licence or tax law to import drink form NI or UK and sell it in the Republic for less the everybody else
cheers

starbelgrade

Yes. Even below cost selling is prohibited (in 2003, the "Happy Hour" was banned).

Mike...

As far as I know you have to pay customs on all imports

xp90

Just rent out a transit and take it up to strabane fill her up with bottles of bud and miller and break them out around 12am when everones pisht and wont notice the "Multipack Bottle" label

pubcrawler

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yes. Even below cost selling is prohibited (in 2003, the "Happy Hour" was banned).

so prices can't be reduced to draw in a crowd?
and even if the duty and vat is paid.
surely it should be the same as other businesses that import products pay duty and still sell them cheaper?

xp90

Why are you ignoring my advice?

pubcrawler

xp90 wrote: »

Just rent out a transit and take it up to strabane fill her up with bottles of bud and miller and break them out around 12am when everones pisht and wont notice the "Multipack Bottle" label

i like your thinking, cos i think the same, but in order to run a pub properly i'll need it to be all above board, but cheers tho

Adyx

"Happy hours" i.e. temporary periods of time during which drinks are reduced below their normal retail price are prohibited. A day (or longer) reduction is legal afaik. Obviously selling as cheaply as is profitable is the game here. As long as you pay any relevant import tax/duty and VAT to the government, there is nothing to stop you importing drink. Also there is no law against selling NRB/Off-Trade bottles in a pub. If your prices reflect this you'll be rewarded.

Locamon

Adyx wrote: »

"Happy hours" i.e. temporary periods of time during which drinks are reduced below their normal retail price are prohibited. A day (or longer) reduction is legal afaik. Obviously selling as cheaply as is profitable is the game here. As long as you pay any relevant import tax/duty and VAT to the government, there is nothing to stop you importing drink. Also there is no law against selling NRB/Off-Trade bottles in a pub. If your prices reflect this you'll be rewarded.

This is interesting because there was a discussion similar to this on Today FM yesterday. A Waterford publican pointed out he could buy drink cheaper from his local supermarket than he could from his official supplier but he wouldn't buy from the supermarket because he had a reputation to protect -I assume he meant he didn't want locals saying yer man is fierce cheap and buys from the supermarket, amazing but people have a real issue with this -happy to pay above the odds but indignant when they think 'I could go to the supermarket and buy that me-self' or was he suggesting it would put him in bad stead with his suppliers -you still have to source the draught kegs from somewhere
Only in Ireland do we have an issue with sourcing the cheapest products -in the UK small retailers happily head to Tesco to stock up on offers if they give them a better margin than the wholesaler. Sorry for going a little OT.

pubcrawler

Locamon wrote: »

This is interesting because there was a discussion similar to this on Today FM yesterday. A Waterford publican pointed out he could buy drink cheaper from his local supermarket than he could from his official supplier but he wouldn't buy from the supermarket because he had a reputation to protect -I assume he meant he didn't want locals saying yer man is fierce cheap and buys from the supermarket, amazing but people have a real issue with this -happy to pay above the odds but indignant when they think 'I could go to the supermarket and buy that me-self' or was he suggesting it would put him in bad stead with his suppliers -you still have to source the draught kegs from somewhere
.

i was listening to that my self and all i thought was he is trying to justify having such a high price on drink.
all i can see is if all the supermarkets ( tesco's, dunnes, supervalue's and centra's) are all doing price drop's and price matches with the uk and still making profit why cant the pubs.

pubcrawler

Adyx wrote: »

"Happy hours" i.e. temporary periods of time during which drinks are reduced below their normal retail price are prohibited. A day (or longer) reduction is legal afaik. Obviously selling as cheaply as is profitable is the game here. As long as you pay any relevant import tax/duty and VAT to the government, there is nothing to stop you importing drink. Also there is no law against selling NRB/Off-Trade bottles in a pub. If your prices reflect this you'll be rewarded.

i might be getting a bit deep, but if tax has already been paid inside the EU ( as in english tax) then the only payment to the irish revenue would be vat @ 21% of the sale price? am i right? or do you know

JohnThomas09

pubcrawler wrote: »

so prices can't be reduced to draw in a crowd?
and even if the duty and vat is paid.
surely it should be the same as other businesses that import products pay duty and still sell them cheaper?

Prices can be reduced but only on stocks bought in the Republic.a lot of border pubs take a chance and buy their booze's across the border but your running a huge risk as you can be spot checked at anytime.

pubcrawler

JohnThomas09 wrote: »

Prices can be reduced but only on stocks bought in the Republic.a lot of border pubs take a chance and buy their booze's across the border but your running a huge risk as you can be spot checked at anytime.

so that means if i buy in the north i have to sell it at irish RRP in the rep. and if i buy in the south i can sell it at a reduced rate! is this right?
who spot checks and how would the know since most of the bottled drink on irish shelves ( both shops and pubs) have the uk weights & measure mark on the the back.!

Lplated

pubcrawler wrote: »

i might be getting a bit deep, but if tax has already been paid inside the EU ( as in english tax) then the only payment to the irish revenue would be vat @ 21% of the sale price? am i right? or do you know

No. First you must pay excise duty. Then you pay vat on the new 'excise inclusive' total.

This happens in a number of high tax areas, notably drink, cigs and cars. Despite many promises to the contrary at the time of the original referendum to join the european community, our government is allowed to continue its 'double taxation' in some areas.

Exceptions are that people can bring in what they like, once a) its for personal consumption (and the burden of proof is on you), and b) the tax has been paid in another european country (so the canaries doesn't apply). Exception to the exception is that you must pay the taxes on cars (VRT) regardless.

JohnThomas09

pubcrawler wrote: »

so that means if i buy in the north i have to sell it at irish RRP in the rep. and if i buy in the south i can sell it at a reduced rate! is this right?
who spot checks and how would the know since most of the bottled drink on irish shelves ( both shops and pubs) have the uk weights & measure mark on the the back.!

its the customs that check.on the back of all Uk Vodka bottles is a symbol:UK.i know a few guys got caught and its a fairly hefty fine,also it doesnt look great when you go to get your license renewed annually.Its all about the risk,you could do it for months without getting caught.

Fergal C

Don't lease a pub without getting the advice of a solicitor on areas such as the lease agreement, licensing, etc. You could add this question to your list for the solicitor.

Most pubs are really struggling at the moment. The rental cost of your lease should reflect that, in other words the rent should be lower than it was say two years' ago.

Jayne Jones

Hi anyone, I`m seriously thinking of selling up my house and buying a pub in my homeland Wales, I`m thinking that if I could afford to buy one outright that this would eliminate the pressures I would be under if I only purchased a lease, I am only airing my thoughts just in case I`m missing something vital that I havn`t thought of .......... am I ??

sijoco

pubcrawler wrote: »

i was listening to that my self and all i thought was he is trying to justify having such a high price on drink.
all i can see is if all the supermarkets ( tesco's, dunnes, supervalue's and centra's) are all doing price drop's and price matches with the uk and still making profit why cant the pubs.

Well thats plain silly, first of all most pubs are independently owned, you think they may have the same buying power as some of the multi nationals....than think about volume of sales? follow??