Bus Eireann intercity Routes - joke

veryangryman

Why do BE insist on using the old roads when the Motorways are quicker and safer for all. Can anyone explain?

The Dublin-Galway line a perfect example. Instead of getting onto Motorway at Moate and ploughing straight onward to Athlone/N55 exit, they go straight to Kilmartins roundabout. Same with the new Ballinasloe Road. There arent even any stops in between FFS!

Correct me if im wrong but wouldnt people prefer to get to where their going quicker. There is now no value whatsoever in choosing them over Citylink or Gobus for commuting

serfboard

veryangryman wrote: »

Why do BE insist on using the old roads when the Motorways are quicker and safer for all. Can anyone explain?

The Dublin-Galway line a perfect example. Instead of getting onto Motorway at Moate and ploughing straight onward to Athlone/N55 exit, they go straight to Kilmartins roundabout. Same with the new Ballinasloe Road. There arent even any stops in between FFS!

Correct me if im wrong but wouldnt people prefer to get to where their going quicker. There is now no value whatsoever in choosing them over Citylink or Gobus for commuting

Except for the fact that, while Citylink tried to undermine GoBus' 10 EUR rate by charging 5 EUR, BE have responded by charging 2 EUR! Herein lieth the (only, IMO) advantage.

Considering that GoBus now presumably joins the motorway at Ballinasloe, even with (slightly) more money involved, it's game over for this kind of craic (travelling on the old road). Unless of course, you don't value your time or your comfort.

GerardKeating

veryangryman wrote: »

Why do BE insist on using the old roads when the Motorways are quicker and safer for all. Can anyone explain?

Because they need the permission from DoT to change/vary the route, when DB tried to use the DPT for Swords Express routes, they got their hands slapped.

veryangryman wrote: »

The Dublin-Galway line a perfect example. Instead of getting onto Motorway at Moate and ploughing straight onward to Athlone/N55 exit, they go straight to Kilmartins roundabout. Same with the new Ballinasloe Road. There arent even any stops in between FFS!

Correct me if im wrong but wouldnt people prefer to get to where their going quicker. There is now no value whatsoever in choosing them over Citylink or Gobus for commuting

GoBus is ok for you want to go Dublin-Galway for Oranmore-Liffey Valley for example...

T Corolla

I agree with very angry man on this one. Bus Eireann need to improve intercity times and start making better use of their fleet. I am in Mullingar and the timetable is a mess. I come home from work around 8pm every evening and there is a (22 Ballina) bus leaving the Austin Friar street stop and by the time I get to the railway station there is another Bus(115 Mullingar) heading in the same direction only 10 mins apart. The intercity services should not need to pass into the towns when there are commuter buses that can collect passengers in the small towns and drop them to Kinnegad where they can board the Intercity service and straight to Dublin while passenger that have come from Westport/Galway/Ballina/Sligo can get onto the commuter bus and if they require get off at the intermittent stops on the old N4. This is common scence and would help Bus Eireann gain market share and reduce journey times.

Vic_08

veryangryman wrote: »

Why do BE insist on using the old roads when the Motorways are quicker and safer for all. Can anyone explain?

The roads have changed but the timetables and licences have not.

veryangryman wrote: »

The Dublin-Galway line a perfect example. Instead of getting onto Motorway at Moate and ploughing straight onward to Athlone/N55 exit, they go straight to Kilmartins roundabout.

That would depend on the individual driver, since that section of motorway has opened I always use it but as both roads are parallell there would be little if any time difference on such a short section.

veryangryman wrote: »

Same with the new Ballinasloe Road. There arent even any stops in between FFS!

There is a stop in between at Ballydangan (petrol station at the point the old road bridges the motorway) but in this case I believe the old road can actually be quicker. The motorway on this section takes a longer route than the old road and the exit for Ballinasloe requires doubling back.

Every so often I drive the Galway-Dublin route as an express (only stopping in Athlone) along side the regular service. both buses depart Galway together but despite going through Oranmore, Loughrea, Ballinasloe and taking the old road from there to Athlone the service bus is usually around 5 minutes behind arriving in Athlone.

Hopping on and off motorways to serve towns is rarely worth it as it usually means more mileage and extra junctions/roundabouts. In a bus the motorway sections at 100kph max just doesn't give enough time advantage to outweigh the extra distance.

On a long run it is different, a decent run on the motorway such as Athlone-Dublin will cut a decent amount of time off the old routes but in my experience just one deviation to drop off/pick up and a great deal of the time gain will be lost.

In a car the difference is obvious as you can go significantly faster on the motorway, in a bus you will get 15-20kph at best.

veryangryman

The Moate-Athlone section of motorway is significantly faster on Monday mornings/Friday evenings. Why not use it then?

I take your point about jumping on and off the Motorway etc but Kilmartins approach eastbound is still very busy in mornings and evenings and yet the drivers STILL insist on using it. Do you guys actually like sitting in traffic or something?

That said, i have yet to meet a sane bus driver

Dan_B

Bus Eireann has never been concerned with providing a service to it's customers. If they weren't protected by the state they would be out of business in a matter of months.

I used to travel on a bus that went through leixlip every day.
In 7 years I think it picked up 2 passangers.

Has CIE every heard of a cost benefit analysis?

KC61

Dan_B wrote: »

Bus Eireann has never been concerned with providing a service to it's customers. If they weren't protected by the state they would be out of business in a matter of months.

I used to travel on a bus that went through leixlip every day.
In 7 years I think it picked up 2 passangers.

Has CIE every heard of a cost benefit analysis?

You have to remember that Bus Eireann operates its services subject to the licensing of the Department of Transport, which imposes very restrictive rules on what companies can or cannot do. Those services that went through Leixlip did so because that was what the licence specified.

I think you are being somewhat unfair on BE. In recent years there have been significant improvements on many routes, with clockface timetables, regular hourly services, large numbers of services to/from Dublin Airport, far better connections within the Expressway network. There are buses through the night on certain routes.

There is now going to be retrenchment of low volume routes that probably should have been merged/withdrawn years ago, but couldn't because of political interference.

Of all the CIE Group, BE have been ahead of the game and in fact came out very well in terms of operational efficiency and value for money in the recent Deloitte report.

veryangryman

Value for money good. Common sense, not so. I mean when the department set such restrictions, why not give a business case for better customer service.

Thats what id do if i didnt agree with my employer/stakeholder on policy. The worst they can do is say no. If they see benefits, theyd be mad to say no

Dan_B

with clockface timetables

The bus I was getting didn't appear on any timetable and still doesn't.
You just had to know

And they wonder why they didn't get the passanger numbers.

When they launched the ikea service to belfast they didn't advertise it and there wasn't a single passanger the first few days?
Similar story with direct airport services from around the country.
Spent a fortune on new coaches last year and this year they are taking them off the road?
Intergated ticketing anybody?
CIE has failed to deliver an effective public transport system, they've had long enough, let someone else try.
Apologies if slightly off topic.

Saruman

Dan_B wrote: »

Bus Eireann has never been concerned with providing a service to it's customers.

Is that not precisely what they are doing?
I live in rochfortbridge and would be pretty pissed off it they decided to bypass rochfortbridge and stuck to the motorway. So would others in all the towns along the way.

In the example the OP posted though, that is fine as there are no stops so no one is inconvenienced but for the most part, the bypassed roads can not be used as there are so many towns/stops that people rely on the service.

KC61

veryangryman wrote: »

Value for money good. Common sense, not so. I mean when the department set such restrictions, why not give a business case for better customer service.

Thats what id do if i didnt agree with my employer/stakeholder on policy. The worst they can do is say no. If they see benefits, theyd be mad to say no

Well I can list a significant number of customer focussed improvements that Dublin Bus (and indeed independent operators) tried to implement that were knocked on the head by the Department for one reason or another, none of which focussed on the benefits to the customer, but rather the potential for litigation involving the department from another operator.

Bus Eireann is no different.

Believe me - until the licensing laws are fully revamped - we are stuck with a totally non-customer focussed approach. Basically if there is a second operator operating on the same/similar route or part thereof, it is VERY difficult to get any route/schedule changes through the Department.

KC61

Dan_B wrote: »

The bus I was getting didn't appear on any timetable and still doesn't.
You just had to know

And they wonder why they didn't get the passanger numbers.

When they launched the ikea service to belfast they didn't advertise it and there wasn't a single passanger the first few days?
Similar story with direct airport services from around the country.
Spent a fortune on new coaches last year and this year they are taking them off the road?
Intergated ticketing anybody?
CIE has failed to deliver an effective public transport system, they've had long enough, let someone else try.
Apologies if slightly off topic.

All of the new airport services have been advertised in local media, online, and indeed in huge lettering on many buses!!

As indeed was the IKEA service - press releases were issued as I remember reading about them here.

The new coaches are not being withdrawn - rather a political decision has been made that Bus Eireann needs to cut costs and the only way to do that is to withdraw services that no one is (or very few people are) using, some of which should have indeed been withdrawn years ago.

You have to remember that the public transport system is subject to significant political intervention - Dublin Bus attempted to cull many of the low service routes some years ago, but political intervention put pay to that. It was only recently that ghost buses (such as the 172) were finally withdrawn.

The current timetable shows the following services as serving Leixlip Village:
Route 115:
Dublin-Mullingar: 1030 / 1630 / 1730
Mullingar/Dublin: 0615 / 0635
Kinnegad/Dublin: 0815 (Saturdays only)

Route 122:
Dublin-Portumna: 1600
Portumna-Dublin: 0645

Dan_B

A private coach operator wanted to run a service from my town, direct to Dublin, a service we currently don't have from CIE. He later found out he would loose any contract work from Bus Eireann if he went in competition with them on another route so he pulled out.

We all remember cirlcle line. Couldn't get a bus from celbridge to dublin until they showed up. CIE flooded the route with subsidised buses forcing them out of business although I believe it is the subject of a court case.

These sort of practises limit the choice of the travelling public and re enforces the CIE monopoly.

The only transport system in the country that runs efficently and makes a profit without state aid is the luas and guess who doesn't run that?

And I should have specified printed time tables.

KC61

Dan_B wrote: »

A private coach operator wanted to run a service from my town, direct to Dublin, a service we currently don't have from CIE. He later found out he would loose any contract work from Bus Eireann if he went in competition with them on another route so he pulled out.

We all remember cirlcle line. Couldn't get a bus from celbridge to dublin until they showed up. CIE flooded the route with subsidised buses forcing them out of business although I believe it is the subject of a court case.

These sort of practises limit the choice of the travelling public and re enforces the CIE monopoly.

The only transport system in the country that runs efficently and makes a profit without state aid is the luas and guess who doesn't run that?

And I should have specified printed time tables.

I did look at the printed timetable....

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1242378678-115.pdf

The link above clearly indicates which buses serve Leixlip Village and is the current printed route timetable.

The Circle Line case is nowhere near as simple as you suggest. The only place that it was alleged DB operated additional buses was South Lucan and that was an area which Circle Line did not change their timetable or offer an all day service!!!

The Celbridge service failed (in my opinion) because of:
1) DoT approving an expanded all day timetable and Circle Line then not having the resources to operate it initially, and not being allowed to advertise the timetable that they WERE operating because the DoT would only allow them advertise the approved timetable!!!! In other words no-one could tell when buses would show up!

2) A full day expanded service being operated with no subsidy - it just was never going to work while Dublin Bus were already operating a higher frequency route 67/67A.

3) Poor publicity of changes etc - they did eventually produce good maps/info but it was too too late - and no information was available on any bus stops.

4) It was a case of a small operation expanding too fast into a market that was not going to support both Dublin Bus and Circle Line.

There are several threads on this topic and in each there are Celbridge residents stating that they did not see any extra buses from Dublin Bus in Celbridge.

The reality was that Circle Line operated an excellent niche peak hour service to Lucan and Celbridge that was reliable and quite probably profitable.

However the expansion into an all day service between Celbridge and Nutgrove meant that they were operating services when there was a much smaller market, and an already established higher frequency Dublin Bus service. The costs of this far outweighed the revenues.

That is (in my view as an observer) why it failed.

There is a court case pending on this at some stage later this year, which Dublin Bus have said they will vigorously defend.

Interestingly as I said in another post above, the Deloitte study into the operations of Bus Eireann stated that:
1) They found the Bus Eireann network to be as efficient as its peers.
2) They found the scheduling of buses and drivers to be efficient when the nature of each service was taken into account
3) The scope for cost savings at Bus Eireann is limited as the current network design and schedules are largely efficient

The report in full is at:
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/final%20report%20bus%20review%20220109.pdf

Dan_B

We'll have to let the court decide that one!
Any comment on CIE cutting contractors who compete against them on routes?

KC61

Dan_B wrote: »

We'll have to let the court decide that one!
Any comment on CIE cutting contractors who compete against them on routes?

Indeed - I merely offered my own view as a long time user and observer of public transport in this country.

Re the cutting of contractors, well if they did, that isn't right. Simple as.

Genuinely though, it is easy to criticise CIE. In many cases they are responsible for the problems. However, they are subject to ludicrous regulations that have no regard for customers and date from 1932, despite the fact that the world has completely changed.

Similarly so are the private operators!