loose bottom bracket/pedal

eurotrotter

hey gang

hope yer all well

im over in germany at the moment.

and my bike just arrived my dhl there the other day.

i had to dismantle the bike obviosuly enough, and that involved using a size 15 spanner, to get the pedals, off so that was fine.

the bike arrived there the other day, and i fitted the pedals, and i noticed that the pedals felt a bit loose, so i thugged on them and all seems fine, it appears as if its the bottom bracket is at fault, cos there is a bit of play, left to right when ya apply any decent bit of force on the whole pedal.

i went to a bike shop thinkin i get get a bit of advice, and your man goes, that teh rubber needs replacing, i have pics uploaded to show you guys what he was referring to.

im not that technical and was hoping someone could diagnose this issue.
the bike is 2 months old, its a la pierrer rcr 500, flat bar racer.

thanks very much for yor time,

here are the pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/Dusseldorf#5368787921283219266

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/Dusseldorf#5370134704274039426

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/Dusseldorf#5370336003731042482

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/Dusseldorf#5370336023137393186

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/Dusseldorf#5370336033558961490

bcmf

First of all forget about tugging on the pedals.
Tug on the crank arms.
If they dont move its your pedals

If they move its either
a) your cranks are loose
or
b) your bottom bracket is on its way out.

I would bring it back to a different bike shop mechanic and see what they say. If its cranks its just a matter of tightening bolts but if its BB and you the bike is only 2 months old....... Did you buy it new?

eurotrotter

thanks for teh help

the bike is a year old, sorry if i didnt make that clear

ya its not the pedals that are loose its the crank arm, the pedals are grand and tight.

Thanks for the help bcmf.

bcmf wrote: »

First of all forget about tugging on the pedals.
Tug on the crank arms.
If they dont move its your pedals

If they move its either
a) your cranks are loose
or
b) your bottom bracket is on its way out.

I would bring it back to a different bike shop mechanic and see what they say. If its cranks its just a matter of tightening bolts but if its BB and you the bike is only 2 months old....... Did you buy it new?

eurotrotter

**deleted post, post twice**

victorcarrera

eurotrotter wrote: »

It appears as if its the bottom bracket is at fault, cos there is a bit of play, left to right when ya apply any decent bit of force on the whole pedal.

Was the problem there before dismantling?
If not it may be due to incorrect assembly
Did you ensure there was no left to right play before tightening the crank bolts?
If not heres how for an FSA BB.
If the crank spindle moves left to right as distinct from up and down in the bottom bracket. Loosen the two crank bolts.
Apply a force of between 0.7 to 1.5 Nm to the crank tensioner. (This is what positions the left crank correctly on the crank spindle.
Tighten 2 crank bolts to 10<14 Nm.
If you dont have a torque wrench set crank tensioner until there is no play in crank spindle but dont over tighten.

eurotrotter

victorcarrera wrote: »

Was the problem there before dismantling?
If not it may be due to incorrect assembly
Did you ensure there was no left to right play before tightening the crank bolts?
If not heres how for an FSA BB.
If the crank spindle moves left to right as distinct from up and down in the bottom bracket. Loosen the two crank bolts.
Apply a force of between 0.7 to 1.5 Nm to the crank tensioner. (This is what positions the left crank correctly on the crank spindle.
Tighten 2 crank bolts to 10<14 Nm.
If you dont have a torque wrench set crank tensioner until there is no play in crank spindle but dont over tighten.

I took the left pedal off last nite. the shaft is attached to the right pedal, and the left pedal, just slides onto the shaft onth eother side, and there is two allen nuts, that squeeze it together, and hold is secure.

I have an allen kez for this, but its the usual length, about the length of a pencil. and there is a sticker asking me to applz 12 to 15 nm, I have no idea what 12 to 15nm is, will this pencil siyed allen key tighten to this level?

I tightened the pedal last night as tight as i kood with this tool, and there was still the same amount of play there, a small bit, but u feel it when pedaling.
there is a spacer on the pedal, and it appears to be SLIGHTLY bent, but its hardly enough to cause play, once the pedal is tightened, this plastic spacer/washer gets back into shape.

Morgan

You seem to be referring to the crankarm as the "pedal". This makes things very confusing.

Pedal:


Crank arm:


As mentioned above you need to tighten the fixing bolt on the left hand crank arm. It looks like this:

This is what removes play from the chainset. Make sure both fixing bolts are loose before adjusting this.

There's a special tool to tighen it - I assume you have this since you dismantled the bike.

kona

The problem is your crankset isnt all the way home on the BB. Its a fairly common thing when you remove the L/H crank on hollowtech 2 for any amount of time.

1) on the R/H crank (the one with gears) give it a smack with your hand to make sure its all the way in.

2)as mentioned above refit the L/H crank, Using the plastic end cap to push it on.

3)making sure the plastic wedge is between the bolts, tighten the two bolts on the top of the crank.


Step 1 is important.

Are those cranks standard Issue?

victorcarrera

Can you confirm if you are tensioning the bolt on the end of the left crank arm before you tighten the two allen key pinch bolts as morgan and I have suggested?
The short allen key or multitool is not sufficient to achieve 10Nm or more. It will just work its way loose again.
I have a 30cm Torque wrench and it requires a firm twist with good quality allen key attachment to achieve this torque.
I hope you note the distinction between the circular crank tensioner bolt as in morgans pic above and the two allen pinch bolts which secure the left crank on the crank shaft.

Lumen

eurotrotter wrote: »

I have an allen kez for this, but its the usual length, about the length of a pencil. and there is a sticker asking me to applz 12 to 15 nm, I have no idea what 12 to 15nm is, will this pencil siyed allen key tighten to this level?

If your allen key is 12-15cm long, then 12 to 15nm is about 10kg acting on the end of that allen key. I think.

eurotrotter

thanks a million for all the replies lads, looks liek this issue is gonna be resolved in no time.

ii took a few pics of the scenario this evening.

here is the link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/BikePicsPedal

i hope that this pics confirm everything i was telling til now.

the problem i have now, is how to tighten the crank bolt, its maede out of plastic, and appears to need either a massive allen key, i just dont know, how tight must it be?

i remember when i took it off, it was only hand tight.

kona

eurotrotter wrote: »

thanks a million for all the replies lads, looks liek this issue is gonna be resolved in no time.

ii took a few pics of the scenario this evening.

here is the link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/edmondkelleher/BikePicsPedal

i hope that this pics confirm everything i was telling til now.

the problem i have now, is how to tighten the crank bolt, its maede out of plastic, and appears to need either a massive allen key, i just dont know, how tight must it be?

i remember when i took it off, it was only hand tight.

Its only ment to be hand tight. You need a special tool, Its usually found attached to the handle of the hollowtech2 tool. If your real stuck just use the palm of your hand.

eurotrotter

thanks for that

where can i get one of those tools?

is the hollowtech2 universal and fixed in size world wide?

il have to get that tomorrow in the local bikshop, shoodnt be that expensive

kona wrote: »

Its only ment to be hand tight. You need a special tool, Its usually found attached to the handle of the hollowtech2 tool. If your real stuck just use the palm of your hand.

eurotrotter

hey gang
me again

i have fitted the pedal since, and as far as i know i did everything right.

i took the whole pedal out and put grease on the shaft that goes through the bottom bracket.

i then put the shaft back through the bottom bracket gave it a bang with the palm of my hand to ensure it was all the way through.

I aligned the splines on the shaft with the splines on the left pedal.

i got the tool for tightening the plastic bolt and i tightened the plastic bolt to a round hand tightness with the bolt.
I then tightened the bolts on the pedal as tight as i could using an allen key the length of a pen.

Once all this was done i was pretty sure everything i had done was correct, and that i wasnt leaving anything out,

now, the play in the left pedal shaft was gone, but when i pedaled backwards, u can hear a intermittent creaking sound.

any ideas

this is really getting to me now!

thanks for yer help so far guys

enjoy the wkd

ed

p.s. i have uploaded a video of the creaking, and the whole setup:

http://rapidshare.com/files/270149638/pedalcreaking_video.MOV.html

bcmf

just unscrew everything you tightened by 1/4 (one quarter) of a turn.You may have simply overtightened something.
Also make sure your gears are aligned properly at the back.Just change your gears and try it again.
Your pedal shaft is better known as the crank. Left hand crank has no gears and the right hand crank has the chainring attached to it.

eurotrotter

bcmf wrote: »

just unscrew everything you tightened by 1/4 (one quarter) of a turn.You may have simply overtightened something.
Also make sure your gears are aligned properly at the back.Just change your gears and try it again.
Your pedal shaft is better known as the crank. Left hand crank has no gears and the right hand crank has the chainring attached to it.

thanks for the advice.

iv tried lossening everything, and it still has made no difference, i went to a bike shop there adn the guy there stripped the crank, pedals.

and said the bottom bracket needs replacing

it was a big bike shop like halfords in ireland, so its not like hes trying to pull a fast one.

he knew his stuff as well.

he greased up the shaft as well, but still made no difference.

he offered me a bottom bracket for my shimano tiagra for 41e, how does tat sound?


@ bcmf what do u mean by aligning the back gears, not very techy, so please be patient

thanks very much guys

ed

bcmf

If your Bottom Bracket is stuffed there is nothing you can do.
If he is willing to fit the Bottom Bracket for €41 then I would say go for it. It wont be top of the range but should ok.

What i mean by aligning properly: is your gear changes nice and crisp.No clanking or "chattering" from the back when changing gears.

eurotrotter

bcmf wrote: »

If your Bottom Bracket is stuffed there is nothing you can do.
If he is willing to fit the Bottom Bracket for €41 then I would say go for it. It wont be top of the range but should ok.

What i mean by aligning properly: is your gear changes nice and crisp.No clanking or "chattering" from the back when changing gears.

no nothing like that, sorry I should have made that cleaerer, its a shimano ultegra bottom bracket, and hes charging 41e for teh part alone.

i found a bottom bracket online on wiggle, but not sure if its compatible:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shimano_Tiagra_4500_Bottom_Bracket_Cup_Set/5360027350/

is this compatible, and is it of much the sam quality as the one he is suggesting ,his one loks the exact same.

i am prepared to fit teh bottom bracket myself, there doesnt seem to be much too it other than lubing it up and tightening it with the bottom bracket tool.

bcmf

now before you go buying a bottom Bracket you first need to figure out whether the axle is attached to the crank itself.
ie: when you remove the side of the crankset that has the gears on does the axle come out as well
OR
does the crank slide off and leave and the axle in the frame.

bcmf

Also I am not 100% sure if those cups contain the bearings. I may stand to be corrected though.

kona

bcmf wrote: »

Also I am not 100% sure if those cups contain the bearings. I may stand to be corrected though.

e42 is a good price for a hollowtech2 BB. Then shells containg the bearings, they are behind the black dust seals.

There are different thread patterns on those BBs, Id leave it to the shop TBH.

You will always have noises from a drivetrain in reverse due to the slack in the chain, the derailleur is only designed to work one way for obvious reasons.

kona

IMO thats the sound of somthing metallic hitting off somthing metallic.Not a creak. Take it for a spin with the straps off the pedals, and see if it continues to creak.

most creaks only appear under load.

eurotrotter

the creak isnt coming form the pedals, its definitely coming from the shaft area.
i thought it might be the pedals as well, buts its not.

thanks very ur help

kona wrote: »

IMO thats the sound of somthing metallic hitting off somthing metallic.Not a creak. Take it for a spin with the straps off the pedals, and see if it continues to creak.

most creaks only appear under load.