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Bad reactions from girls

  • 15-08-2009 3:54pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I know theres lots of threads like this but...

    I constantly get aweful reactions from girls. I can't approach them. I don't know what to do or say. I've read all the pickup stuff but with or without ir girls just seem to take offence to me or just dont like the lok or sound of me, I have no idea.


    Please help. How do you do it? I'm a good guy, dress well, keep fit, good job but it doesn't make an ounce of difference to girls. Please help.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm a woman-God we are awful Bitc*s to men sometimes.
    Only advice I can give is to keep your chin up because eventually you might meet someone like me-who treats my man nicely, even though he really didn't have a clue how to chat me up at the start! We are out there I promise!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭gogglebok


    Hi OP. Conventional enough advice here, but I'll give it for what it's worth.

    If approaching people isn't working, you could just junk the idea of making approaches. It might be a better plan to get into non-pickup contexts where you naturally meet women, where you're all engaged on a joint enterprise. This means you won't fluff things with nerves, and they won't have their antennae up for pickup artists and sleazoids.

    Course or night classes are great for this. Everyone is there to learn how to sing, or make pots, or speak Spanish. After a few weeks you just end up knowing and getting on with the people who are suited to you. Once you get to that level, the whole idea of an approach isn't so daunting. (If you're learning Spanish, to take that example, you suggest to the woman you fancy that you both go to a Spanish movie.)

    It struck me recently that most of the couples I know started out as fellow students or co-workers. They didn't meet by hitting on each other. Some of them did, of course, and there's nothing wrong with that. But varying it up gives you more chances.

    As to specific clubs, courses, etc, you could take a look in the appropriate regional forum. Good luck!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    If you've read the pick-up stuff, you'll already know that you can't come onto someone before they're attracted to you. Otherwise it's likely that you'll get a reaction like this, because human nature won't let us give reactions until there's an action to spark it. So maybe that'll put things into better context for you.

    BUT the main thing that strikes me is that you don't get these reactions as often as you think you do. How often do they occur? The reaction you're thinking of...how often has THAT EXACT REACTION occured in the last week? Month? Year? Etc.

    An educated guess would say that it's ACTUALLY happened less than ten times in total.

    What's going on in your head is that each of these reactions have a knock on effect that's made you anxious of trying it again. It's the old adage of kicking a dog when it bites you: you only need to do it once, maybe twice, before it gets the hint that doing this is wrong.

    Unfortunately, what you've likely programmed into your head is that approaching people is wrong...when it's not. What's wrong is how you're approaching them.

    So, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like for you to give me an in-depth account of one such happening. Word-for-word. Also give the context of the situation, how you best remember your body language, tone of voice etc, when exactly she started reacting like she did and what exactly her reaction WAS.

    Then we'll get working on how you're going to improve your interactions in the future. :)

    It's cool dude. Trust me, I'd say a good 70% of guys either deal with, or have dealt with, what you're going through on a day-to-day basis. The only thing that makes your problem stand out is that you've the balls to come on a public forum, admit it and look to improve it. So respect for that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Ok, I can give you an example of last night. I was in a club with 2 guy friends. We were sitting in a kind of lounge area.

    One of my friends sitting across from me decides to go talk to 2 girls sitting alone across from us. Within 30 seconds one of them has come and sat next to me while the other one sits across with my friend.

    So she is to my right and our other friend is sitting to my left.


    Me: Hi, how's it going? Who are you? (little smile to be friendly and extended hand to shake)
    Her: Hi, I'm X.
    Me: Hi X, I'm Y and this is my friend Z.
    Her: Cool
    Me: Where abouts are you from (I thought she had an acent because it was loud but it turned out she was fairly local).
    Her: I'm from this town.
    Her: Hey, you guys don't look like you should be here.
    My Friend: Whys that?
    Her: You look more like people from <another bar>
    Me: Hey hows that?
    Her: A,B and C reason....

    A little fluff from this and she gets up all offended, her friend comes in to say how offended her friend is and why did we do that to her, etc, etc...



    Only last week a girl approached me to tell me what an idiot I looked because I wore a waistcoat...

    Twice recently while I tried to chat to girls who were friends of the girls my friends had approached, the girls I was chatting to said to each other that I was rude or they didn't like me. After like 30seconds of talking... the coneversation could hardly go beyond fluff talk and already I'm rude and aweful???

    2 weeks ago my friend and I got chating to 2 Donegal girls. While my friend got on really well the other girl just totally took a disliking to me, again with hardly any chat.


    Its all stuff like that. I can't even approach nice girls now. They are way too good for me.

    I really dont know what to do. I'd do anything to get real help with this.


    To the other poster. I've tried classes and clubs and stuff but its pretty rare you find the kind of girls you want at these things to be honest. I'm a guy in mid-20's. Its rare you get many girls my own age open to meeting at these classes. I'm speaking from experience, the classes thing is the biggest myth in meeting people. Sure it hapens, but its very rare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Well the girl who said that you looked like guys who would go it the other bar are just superficial fool.

    Maybe you should just talk to girls with out trying to chat them up, just like you would to guy you might get chatting to in a pub... just for a chat and a bit of craic. There is nothing worse that know the only reason a guy is making an effort is to get into your knickers!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭NickNolte


    Foreign women FTW. Much more approachable. Much friendlier, relaxed attitude towards socialising. Won't be abusive towards you if they don't fancy you. Obviously that's a gross generalisation but the fact of the matter is that many Irish women on the 'social scene' are incredibly hostile and nasty. This post it likely to spark off another gender war - but it's just from my experience... I don't speak for anyone else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Ok, I can give you an example of last night. I was in a club with 2 guy friends. We were sitting in a kind of lounge area.

    One of my friends sitting across from me decides to go talk to 2 girls sitting alone across from us. Within 30 seconds one of them has come and sat next to me while the other one sits across with my friend.

    So she is to my right and our other friend is sitting to my left.


    Me: Hi, how's it going? Who are you? (little smile to be friendly and extended hand to shake)
    Her: Hi, I'm X.
    Me: Hi X, I'm Y and this is my friend Z.
    Her: Cool
    Me: Where abouts are you from (I thought she had an acent because it was loud but it turned out she was fairly local).
    Her: I'm from this town.
    Her: Hey, you guys don't look like you should be here.
    My Friend: Whys that?
    Her: You look more like people from <another bar>
    Me: Hey hows that?
    Her: A,B and C reason....

    A little fluff from this and she gets up all offended, her friend comes in to say how offended her friend is and why did we do that to her, etc, etc...



    Only last week a girl approached me to tell me what an idiot I looked because I wore a waistcoat...

    Twice recently while I tried to chat to girls who were friends of the girls my friends had approached, the girls I was chatting to said to each other that I was rude or they didn't like me. After like 30seconds of talking... the coneversation could hardly go beyond fluff talk and already I'm rude and aweful???

    2 weeks ago my friend and I got chating to 2 Donegal girls. While my friend got on really well the other girl just totally took a disliking to me, again with hardly any chat.


    Its all stuff like that. I can't even approach nice girls now. They are way too good for me.

    I really dont know what to do. I'd do anything to get real help with this.


    Okay we'll work with this.

    First off, drop the 'too good for you' mentality. That's as big a myth as you'll find. At a stretch, perhaps the only thing they are is a bit 'too advanced' for you...but that's okay because you'll get there.

    But what about their looks makes them 'too good' for you? They were born with good looks...and who's to say you're not good looking either...but what people look like is FAR from a sign of whether they're 'too good' to even have a friendly conversation with you.

    Now, let's look at the interactions you've listed.

    The common thing with all of these is that you've actually got the girls in conversation...that's good. So for god's sake man, realise you're actually doing SOMETHING and give yourself credit! You'd be amazed how many guys can't even get that far.

    Now, by the nature that they're walking away, it sounds like they're responding adversely to a slagging or a comment you make. You may see this as just being flirty or playful (if you've read a lot of pick-up stuff, you may even be attempting 'negging') but obviously it's not working out for you. If you could get specific as to what your exact words were before they upped and left, that'd be a great insight.

    Also, looking at the dialogue you're doing, your conversations aren't making you stand out at all from the next guy. Put it this way: imagine you're a hot girl in a club. Imagine how many guys come onto you constantly during one night. Imagine how annoying it'd eventually get with all of these guys you're not into trying to get your attention. Now add to that, if you're nice to these guys they'll think they're 'in' and keep coming onto you. So you HAVE to be a bitch as it's the only way to get rid of them!

    Now if you're not standing out, if you're just walking up to a girl doing the old "Hi, how are you?" deal, then she's going to have no problem writing you off immediately and being a bitch in doing so. She has to to preserve her own sanity!

    So what you've got to do is work on standing out. Come up with interesting conversation pieces, from your life, that would immediately get anyone you don't know interested and chatty. Ask for women's opinions on subjects...everyone loves a chance to play expert.

    If you stand out from the get-go, she'll invest in you quicker, and not only will you get away with the comments that would've seen them walk away in disgust beforehand...they'll actually start playing to your advantage after a while.

    If you're interested in talking more, shoot me a PM and we'll get in depth. I've helped out a buncha guys, on and offline, on the matter. Also don't worry if you've an account on boards that you need to PM off, I won't judge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    God, I must be one of the few Irish women who isn't hostile and nasty if NickNolte right. I'll chat to any guy (without leading them on). However, if in the position where I have to state politely that I'm not interested I often find guys hostile and nasty, expecting a reasons. Then your reason is never good enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Vanhalla


    hello like! coz all that **** is for good lookin people!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP what are you actually saying to these women before they become offended by you? It's quite an extreme reaction for someone to actually get up and walk away from you like that when having a conversation.

    I agree with the other poster who has said that 'picking up' women in nightclubs and bars is not the best way to meet people with real potential. Try meeting them though friends or through something you are interested in. All of this 'Pick up' stuff you have read if not necessarily helpful, in my opinion it'll make your interaction with women stilted and desperate looking. Just try and have normal conversations with women.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    being a foreigner myself I can confirm NickNolte's impression. for instance, i have never been discriminated against in ireland except by women. last time a girl chatted me up but as soon as I had mentioned I was German she pretty much said good-bye, turned around and left. another time, same question where I was from I was told "oh you're german? well somebody had to be I guess...".

    of course I am generalizing and this does not apply to all Irish women but try and talk to spanish, italian, french, polish, czech, russian, german, austrian, swedish or whatever nationality girls - it doesn't matter: all of them will be nice, open and friendly from my experience. when being abroad you'll also find girls to be a lot more approachable than here. my big trouble is that you hardly find foreign single girls anywhere :(

    So OP, if you want to boost your self-confidence (because that is what you need), book a flight and go to any place in continental europe and try your luck again. In Germany for instance, the pure fact that you're a foreigner will give you bonus points with girls because you come from a different culture and hence are more interesting because you're literally extraordinary.

    then come back to ireland knowing it's not you, it's them and I am sure as ironic as life is you will chat up a girl and she will be nice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭dyl10


    Just be chilled out about things.
    If she offends you, but you still want to continue the conversation, then laugh it off. If you don't, do what she did and leave the conversation.

    Perhaps pubs are better suited to you than clubs?
    I've plenty of friends that flourish in the pub atmosphere where you can have a relatively long conversation with someone and I've plenty of friend who are better suited to clubs, where they don't need to have meaningful interaction.

    To be honest a lot of people do have their heads buried in the sand about certain things. When it comes to clubs and trying to make a good impression on someone very quickly, there can be a certain level of elitism.
    How do you define a nice girl?

    In regard to you being nice, having a good job etc. those are the type of positives that women can avail of when things have progressed a bit.
    Have you tried actual dating?

    Some people are certainly more approachable than others and struggle to make a fast impression in the few minutes(even if) you have in a nightclub atmosphere(I don't know you, I don't know if you are approachable or not). Maybe you just need some time where you can just go out with someone for an evening, be yourself and let the other person really see what you're like?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 sellsellsell


    Just go for the foreign women, they are miles better in everyway.

    It took me a while to realize I wasn't attracted to Irish girls, don't
    put up with that ****, there's a lot more women out there would will
    appreciate you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Just go for the foreign women, they are miles better in everyway.

    It took me a while to realize I wasn't attracted to Irish girls, don't
    put up with that ****, there's a lot more women out there would will
    appreciate you.

    This just screams 'attitude problem', do not go looking for girls if you think like this poster (and other posters who've said similar to this).

    First of all, don't think it's your fault that the conversations didn't go well. Going by what you said, those girls seemed very unreasonable and rude. Just thank your lucky stars that you didn't have to spend any time longer in their company than was necessary.

    Secondly, some girls get very defensive in clubs/pubs because they might get hassled all the time. It's still no excuse for rudeness on their part, but it might help you to realise that you're not doing anything wrong. Move on with your head held high and leave them with their bitterness (because that's what it is).

    Thirdly, don't dismiss evening classes. Most people go to these to meet new people, and maybe a boyfriend/girlfriend if they're lucky. Pick something you're interested in, you'll meet like-minded people and you'll have loads to talk about without the added pressure of feeling that 'tonight's the night I meet the right girl'.

    Good luck


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Pete4779


    Ok, I can give you an example of last night. I was in a club with 2 guy friends. We were sitting in a kind of lounge area.

    One of my friends sitting across from me decides to go talk to 2 girls sitting alone across from us. Within 30 seconds one of them has come and sat next to me while the other one sits across with my friend.

    So she is to my right and our other friend is sitting to my left.


    Me: Hi, how's it going? Who are you? (little smile to be friendly and extended hand to shake)
    Her: Hi, I'm X.

    At this stage, there is nothing from her position to make you interested in knowing who she is. If your conversation ever comes to who you are, what you do, where are you from, it's a big giant fail. Never bother asking her name, wait for her to introduce herself, or a friend of hers if you know them already to do so.

    Me: Hi X, I'm Y and this is my friend Z.
    Her: Cool

    This isn't a friend, this a kick ass great buddy of yours who you have shared countless interesting experiences with. Think "Z bailed me out of jail" as an extreme example :)
    Me: Where abouts are you from (I thought she had an acent because it was loud but it turned out she was fairly local).
    Her: I'm from this town.
    Her: Hey, you guys don't look like you should be here.
    My Friend: Whys that?
    Her: You look more like people from <another bar>
    Me: Hey hows that?
    Her: A,B and C reason....

    This is all entirely crap. No offence, but it's going nowhere. This girl is not your cousin. Stop trying to figure out why you might know here from x,y,z place or reason. By saying "people from x", you can come across as judgemental, which is no bad thing if she is testing you, but you have no reason so far to be offering her your HIGHLY VALUED opinion on things.

    Only last week a girl approached me to tell me what an idiot I looked because I wore a waistcoat...

    This is a clumsy opener by a girl (I am willing to bet she was Irish BTW). forget the content, just appreciate the form; she started the conversation - you shoudl then lead it.
    I've tried classes and clubs and stuff but its pretty rare you find the kind of girls you want at these things to be honest. I'm a guy in mid-20's. Its rare you get many girls my own age open to meeting at these classes. I'm speaking from experience, the classes thing is the biggest myth in meeting people. Sure it hapens, but its very rare.

    What you are doing in a class is expanding your social network. You are not going to actively hit on all the girls there; instead, use it as an opportunity to get to know people while forgetting entirely about trying to get them in the sack. Just make friends, real friends.

    Just as an aside; whatever you have learned about picking up women in Ireland, forget it, because whatever you are doing has not been working so it's time to try something new, and that means experimenting :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Pete4779


    ..... I was told "oh you're german? well somebody had to be I guess..."......

    ....... book a flight and go to any place in continental europe and try your luck again. In Germany for instance, the pure fact that you're a foreigner will give you bonus points with girls because you come from a different culture and hence are more interesting because you're literally extraordinary.

    then come back to ireland knowing it's not you, it's them and I am sure as ironic as life is you will chat up a girl and she will be nice.

    This is a crazy situation but oddly believeable. Which is why I also recommend the OP book a flight to somewhere, but in this instance, Germany, and specifically Berlin, because there a million clubs and TBH people and especially women and far more approachable for simply talking. waterworks, 40 seconds, etc., . If the OP went there, and walked in, opened up a group, he would find he is treated more like a fellow human being then what typically happens in Ireland. The difference is astounding, and I say this as a 100% Irish man. Whatever Irish women think they have somehow suffered unduly for for some reason is non-existent.

    Ireland is small, colloquial and socially limited. There are no real clubs here, so look further afield for the scene that you will fit into; undoubtedly you will suit it well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭Vasco


    Just be an ass hole... chicks love that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Vasco wrote: »
    Just be an ass hole... chicks love that.

    I certainly don't and wouldn't be friends with a guy who is an ass hole never mind go out with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    This is a crazy situation but oddly believeable. Which is why I also recommend the OP book a flight to somewhere, but in this instance, Germany, and specifically Berlin, because there a million clubs and TBH people and especially women and far more approachable for simply talking. waterworks, 40 seconds, etc., . If the OP went there, and walked in, opened up a group, he would find he is treated more like a fellow human being then what typically happens in Ireland. The difference is astounding, and I say this as a 100% Irish man. Whatever Irish women think they have somehow suffered unduly for for some reason is non-existent.

    Ireland is small, colloquial and socially limited. There are no real clubs here, so look further afield for the scene that you will fit into; undoubtedly you will suit it well.

    A: Women are the same the world over. This is a ridiculous notion.

    There's just as likely to be tons of Germans thinking 'Wow...Irish girls are so easy...'

    The only DIFFERENCE between countries are small cultural one's...but the laws of attraction are built into us when we're born. They're applicable to humans as a SPECIES...not to individual CULTURES.

    If you're not having success in Ireland, it's not because the women here are all bitches. It's because you BELIEVE that the women here are bitches so go into it with a defeating mindset. Whereas you also BELIEVE that German girls suit you better so you go into it with a winning mindset...therefore have more success. It really IS that simple.

    OP don't go spending ridiculous amounts of money travelling across the world when you can just get a bus into your nearest city centre and solve the problem.



    B: One poster noted that these women were likely just cold individuals. I don't believe that either.

    I realise that this poster was trying to make you feel better about yourself...but really it gives you nothing to work with. All that piece of advice gives you is a limiting belief like the one mentioned above.

    See if you blame the girls all the time and become one of those guys who simply calls girls who don't like him 'lesbians' or 'bitches' then you're not solving the problem. What can you do if they're all 'bitches'? Nothing, you can't change them through a 10-second interaction!

    Besides, rarely have I ever met a person who I'd consider a 'bitch' or 'bastard' through and through. Yes, women can be bitchy at times. I went into reasons why they can be bitchy in this environment in a previous post. But it doesn't mean that they're not decent people at the core of it...and it definitely doesn't mean that they're people you couldn't enjoy either a great night with or a fulfilling relationship with.

    If you look at it from the angle where you blame yourself...it's a lot more constructive believe it or not. Don't beat yourself up, just give yourself an honest appraisal of where the interaction went sour and make sure you remedy it the next time. Try to approach another woman, if possible, almost immediately afterwards and have a better interaction with her.

    So on a night out, you're turning negatives into positives and setbacks into lessons. You'll improve much faster this way.



    C: Here's a nugget of info that will genuinely change your life if you understand it, accept it and believe it:

    When a woman rejects you, she doesn't reject you as a person. How can she? She's only known you a matter of seconds/minutes and doesn't realise all of the cool things you've got going on for you.

    What she IS rejecting is your approach. That few seconds/minutes you two were chatting.


    It'd take years for you to fix yourself as a whole person...but you can redeem yourself in seconds if you just make another approach and improve it.



    D: This is another myth:
    Just be an ass hole... chicks love that.

    Chicks don't love arseholes. Try going up to a buncha women on a night and telling them they're trying too hard and look awful. That's being an arsehole. By your rationale, you should be able to have tons of phone numbers by the end of the night. Let me know how you get on.

    Women love the difference between a STRONG man as opposed to a weak man.

    A weak man will lick her arse...tell her that she's beautiful within minutes of meeting her for no good reason...be unable to match her eye contact because he clearly feels unworthy of her etc etc.

    A strong man won't have to do this. A strong man will be able to attract her through the sheer force of his personality. A strong man will be able to say what he TRULY feels to a woman and not dilute his words to suit her. A strong man won't be afraid of offending or disagreeing with her...even if it means she'll walk away...because a strong man has other options.

    Arseholes often tend to be stronger men. That's where you see the correlation. But you can easily be a nice guy and a strong man at the same time. A lick arse isn't neccessarily a nice guy though...he's a weak guy.


    E: Here's some more info that will change your life when you 'get it':

    Men are creatures of logic. Women are creatures of emotion. Men will respond to things which make sense to them. Women will respond to things which make them feel good about themselves.

    You may think that this is a direct contradiction to the above point. If I tell her that she's beautiful, surely she'll feel good about herself, no?

    Actually, no.

    If you tell her that she's beautiful for no good reason...then she's going to be suspicious of your intentions. Think about it...a supermodel-looking thing walks up to you in the club and immediately starts lauding with compliments. Your first thought isn't "Yeah, this is about right..."...your first thought is, "Eh...what's going on?" Because it's not natural.

    Women feel good when you make them laugh, when they get the chance to voice their opinion, when they sing/dance, whatever. It changes from person to person. But it's something VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind and could help you with this problem in particular.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    NickNolte wrote: »
    Foreign women FTW. Much more approachable. Much friendlier, relaxed attitude towards socialising. Won't be abusive towards you if they don't fancy you. Obviously that's a gross generalisation but the fact of the matter is that many Irish women on the 'social scene' are incredibly hostile and nasty. This post it likely to spark off another gender war - but it's just from my experience... I don't speak for anyone else.


    same for foreign men - but i think the way they are so friendly is offputting, like they would be up for anything!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    i can't believe a randon girl would walk up to someone and insult them like - i dont like your waistcoat!' Maybe im naive but i just can't believe that! Sorry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 sellsellsell


    This just screams 'attitude problem', do not go looking for girls if you think like this poster (and other posters who've said similar to this).

    First of all, don't think it's your fault that the conversations didn't go well. Going by what you said, those girls seemed very unreasonable and rude. Just thank your lucky stars that you didn't have to spend any time longer in their company than was necessary.

    Secondly, some girls get very defensive in clubs/pubs because they might get hassled all the time. It's still no excuse for rudeness on their part, but it might help you to realise that you're not doing anything wrong. Move on with your head held high and leave them with their bitterness (because that's what it is).

    Thirdly, don't dismiss evening classes. Most people go to these to meet new people, and maybe a boyfriend/girlfriend if they're lucky. Pick something you're interested in, you'll meet like-minded people and you'll have loads to talk about without the added pressure of feeling that 'tonight's the night I meet the right girl'.

    Good luck


    attitude problem?

    I was enlightening the op that not to put all your eggs in one basket, this is now a vibrant multi-cultural city and was emphasizing that there are options *other* than Irish girls.

    Everyone I know is dating a foreign girl or married to one (myself included)

    When I bump into guys I went to school with or grew up with, its the same story.

    Variety is the spice of life ;)

    Irish men have more choice now, no longer do they have to tolerate such negative attitudes, YES there are lots of assholes out there, but since most people go to the pub to find someone, what do you expect?

    You need to create more opportunities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    i can't believe a randon girl would walk up to someone and insult them like - i dont like your waistcoat!' Maybe im naive but i just can't believe that! Sorry.

    Why would I have reason to lie? It happened, its not the first time something similr has happened. It usually leaves me completely gutted that they feel the need to approach me and say such things, thanks for your support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Why would I have reason to lie? It happened, its not the first time something similr has happened. It usually leaves me completely gutted that they feel the need to approach me and say such things, thanks for your support.


    and what kind of girls are these? rough in that you look at them and they would shout at you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    leggo very good post, makes a lot of sense and sounds like you have had more than average experience with this topic. just one thing:

    <quote>A: Women are the same the world over. This is a ridiculous notion.

    There's just as likely to be tons of Germans thinking 'Wow...Irish girls are so easy...'

    The only DIFFERENCE between countries are small cultural one's...but the laws of attraction are built into us when we're born. They're applicable to humans as a SPECIES...not to individual CULTURES.

    If you're not having success in Ireland, it's not because the women here are all bitches. It's because you BELIEVE that the women here are bitches so go into it with a defeating mindset. Whereas you also BELIEVE that German girls suit you better so you go into it with a winning mindset...therefore have more success. It really IS that simple.

    OP don't go spending ridiculous amounts of money travelling across the world when you can just get a bus into your nearest city centre and solve the problem.

    </quote>

    While you're correct IMO in saying that the laws of attraction are the same, the cultural difference is the key point here.

    We are talking about the reaction to an approach. The way you react to an approach from a stranger in this case is a cultural thing.

    So agreed that if you don't behave the way you elaborate in the other points you might not make the woman like or fancy you but it does in no way force her to insult you or be abusive in any way.

    Nothing in a woman's nature teaches her that if you don't impress her in an "alpha-male" style she has to react in a rude way.

    Sorry I am not a friend of blaming primary instincts and stone-age survival techniques for everything. The human brain has evolved massively since then and if you have enjoyed some kind of education and care during your childhood and therefore have an ounce of respect for other fellow humans in you you just don't intentionally insult them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I'll chat to you via PM about the main stuff, just to acknowledge this point for any interested onlookers:
    Sorry I am not a friend of blaming primary instincts and stone-age survival techniques for everything. The human brain has evolved massively since then and if you have enjoyed some kind of education and care during your childhood and therefore have an ounce of respect for other fellow humans in you you just don't intentionally insult them.

    This goes back to the hypothetical scenario I gave in an earlier post of the hot women in the club being approached constantly.

    From reading pick-up material, you'll likely have heard of a 'sh1t test'. That's what this is: an unprovoked, hostile comment or action that quickly deciphers if a man has the confidence and strength that would interest her (going back to another point about women loving strong men).

    The best way to deal with them is to plough straight through them with either a funny comeback or, failing that, simply ignore it and change the conversation. That way, you're showing them that you're secure in yourself and their attempts to prod at your self-esteem are falling on deaf ears.

    As far as cultural difference goes...it's really not a big issue. My own observations tell me that Irish girls (Dubs mainly) are extremely into **** tests...but once you get past that you're IN. Girls from the UK are more relaxed towards being approached...but you're either on the level or you aren't. Girls from the States are friendlier at face value but it takes more work to break through and start pushing their attraction switches. Eastern Europeans are welcome to being approached directly...but it comes to a stage where it's either yay or nay and judge's decision is final. Etc etc.

    Of course these are all generalisations and only based on my own personal experiences...but, as you can see, there's NOTHING there that makes ANY culture mentioned completely inpenetrable. You just have to switch up your approach to more effectively push attraction switches. That's called 'calibration'. But since no two girls are EXACTLY the same, you have to calibrate slightly to each individual anyway.

    So the small cultural differences don't have that big of an impact. Attraction is attraction. We humans are mere animals...but one species on this planet. We all have opinions, arseholes, and bleed when we're cut. We're not all that different or unique when you look at it from a broader scale.

    Besides, the great news is that if you know how to exhibit the traits of a strong man (and therefore later BECOME one), then they'll more than likely be attracted to you anyway...so they'll put THEIR cultural differences aside to coincide with yours. Why should you be the one who has to accomodate them? You're the prize, after all. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Partizan


    NickNolte wrote: »
    Foreign women FTW. Much more approachable. Much friendlier, relaxed attitude towards socialising. Won't be abusive towards you if they don't fancy you. Obviously that's a gross generalisation but the fact of the matter is that many Irish women on the 'social scene' are incredibly hostile and nasty. This post it likely to spark off another gender war - but it's just from my experience... I don't speak for anyone else.

    +1

    I was back home during the weekend for a friend's birthday and we went to a late bar/club with good music. There were a group of girls standing next to us who were on a hen night. I started chatting up this girl from Newbridge who had an awful attitude. One of her friends behind her laughed in my face pointing to me as if to say, look who is trying to chat up my mate. Sensing that I was humiliated I simply turned around and turned towards my friends.

    An hour later I got chatting to a Spanish bird and got her number. The difference in her and that stuck up Irish bird was uncomparable. I'd love to meet an Irish girl but everyone of them I talk to leaves alot to be desired. Personality is the clincher for me and many of these girls have none. A Polish mate of mine who has gone out with an Irish girl is amazed at their lack of personalities.

    Anyway I'm off to Russia next month to stay with my sister in law's family so fun times ahead :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I studied a lot of pickup material as part of a psychology course I was doing and it is awful stuff its faintly misogynistic and though some could be gained by just reading it and absorbing it as opposed to following it .I think neil strauss he is a very good writer and he has written books about Jemma Jameson and Motley crue he had a pretty good profile as a writer so I doubt it he never got women. Also that guy Mystery is 6'6' tall I doubt it he was crap at getting women.

    I dont know where you get this b***h thing from yes there is a few alright but nice ones too .One beautiful girl gave me a hug the other night in the club.

    But it's not particularly you. I seen a girl on sat night in town say nasty things to a non national guy serving and his composure left me in awe. The way he handled the situation was awesome.

    Thats the way you need to be ,you said you were gutted ,dont be gutted .I mean why should you be ?. The most powerful thing you can do is stand there and imply ito her is t that the best she can do ?. Or just turn around and totally her .

    Women operate totally different to men that girl probably was probably into you but she got so nervous that came out.

    2 weeks ago me and my friends were in a club .I saw a group of 3 girls and they were knocking back guys right left and centre ,anyhow towards the end of the night my friend got talking to one of them and her friend came over and started talking and she wanted to know where i was from and i told her i was from new york she says to me your'e lying I said no i'm not ,she took a huff walked away from the group stood on her own by the wall. This is a game some women play , anyhow i ignored her didn't even look over to see where she was .She got fed up and came back and we resumed talking. I got her number and I met her the following she 's nice not a b***h at all. I wouldn't give up on irish women at all if you practice enough you'll get to be very good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Kazuma


    being a foreigner myself I can confirm NickNolte's impression. for instance, i have never been discriminated against in ireland except by women. last time a girl chatted me up but as soon as I had mentioned I was German she pretty much said good-bye, turned around and left. another time, same question where I was from I was told "oh you're german? well somebody had to be I guess...".

    of course I am generalizing and this does not apply to all Irish women but try and talk to spanish, italian, french, polish, czech, russian, german, austrian, swedish or whatever nationality girls - it doesn't matter: all of them will be nice, open and friendly from my experience. when being abroad you'll also find girls to be a lot more approachable than here. my big trouble is that you hardly find foreign single girls anywhere :(

    So OP, if you want to boost your self-confidence (because that is what you need), book a flight and go to any place in continental europe and try your luck again. In Germany for instance, the pure fact that you're a foreigner will give you bonus points with girls because you come from a different culture and hence are more interesting because you're literally extraordinary.

    then come back to ireland knowing it's not you, it's them and I am sure as ironic as life is you will chat up a girl and she will be nice.
    Agree completely, an entirely different experience, RedZ on a wednesday night would be my example before it closed down, was an international student night, you could walk up to pretty much anyone and have an actual friendly decent conversation!
    Damn foreigners, being so friendly and nice :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Kazuma


    i can't believe a randon girl would walk up to someone and insult them like - i dont like your waistcoat!' Maybe im naive but i just can't believe that! Sorry.
    Happens all the time, I'm a nervous enough person so I'll spend my time in a pub quietly in a corner, rare that I'll end up talking to people other than my friends on a night out, but I've had girls come up to me and insult me because of stuff like my hair! More than men, in fact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Kazuma wrote: »
    Happens all the time, I'm a nervous enough person so I'll spend my time in a pub quietly in a corner, rare that I'll end up talking to people other than my friends on a night out, but I've had girls come up to me and insult me because of stuff like my hair! More than men, in fact.

    Maybe she's chatting you up when she insults your hair, maybe she's not insulting you, maybe she wants to banter with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    im a girl and im totally and utterly shocked girls can be so awful to go up to someone and just insult them - without even knowing them. I hope you insult her back, she would deserve it. What B****H'S. No way it an insult a chat up line - what are they - 6??! Ignorant cows. Dragged up, not brought up is what they were.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,533 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Buy a leather jacket and a bmw! boom! problem solved! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Fugly


    I like how it always comes to the "Irish women are bitches german/spanishs/swedish* girls are soo much nicer" point. :rolleyes:.

    Yes some are, you've 2 options only hit one those nationalities you deem nice or risk it and hit on irish (and foreign) girls and risk encountering the odd dragon.

    I'm an Irish bitch girl, and I notice 3 things about the whole "hitting on" scene in Ireland.
    1. The majority of people only "hit on" someone, in a pub/club.
    2. It's nicer to get hit on abroad, there's still the sleaze element but because flirting can occur at any situation, your memories are more mixed than a night in a pub with drunken/sleazy men.
    3. It never happens enough. :rolleyes:.. but that may just be me.

    As for lines, for the majority they suck.

    Opening with a joke/insult/innuendo with charm can work, but it's charm not the line. I've had a man in a bookshop insult my choice of book, did so wittily/friendly way, which is why I talked to him. Also a man who asked how could I wear black and navy in a bar, again in a mocking way with a smile. Nice intelligent men, but if they had mocked me in a patronising/snide way, I would have ignored them completely.

    It's all in the delivery, if you're a charming/funny guy work with that, if your quiet strong silent type, work with that. The eye-contact across a room can work, not if you're just staring at her boob/ass though. Also a hello, always works, if she's rude, then she's rude, it's not a reflection on you! Unless, you've opened with "Are those beauties real? :rolleyes: when did that ever work?:confused:"

    I think we really need to flirt/small talk more, which I've noticed most ppl don't seem comfortable with. I'm pretty chatty with everyone, and I'm told I do flirt, I like to banter with most men I meet, it's only conversation. :rolleyes:

    I've encountered men who lacked ability to chat-up a girl and usually were offensively rude trying and failing at humour, mostly with Irish men it has to be said. If you can't work a line, what's wrong with a conversation?

    As for the PUA "tricks" girls see them straight off nowadays due to the popularity of pua's now so most will lose interest ritght there.
    This and a very drunk man are a losing combo, IMO.

    And who started the myth about night classes/clubs!?:confused:




    *swedish girls are generally way better looking which is reason enough to just want to hit on them exclusively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Ok, I can give you an example of last night. I was in a club with 2 guy friends. We were sitting in a kind of lounge area.

    One of my friends sitting across from me decides to go talk to 2 girls sitting alone across from us. Within 30 seconds one of them has come and sat next to me while the other one sits across with my friend.

    So she is to my right and our other friend is sitting to my left.


    Me: Hi, how's it going? Who are you? (little smile to be friendly and extended hand to shake)
    Her: Hi, I'm X.
    Me: Hi X, I'm Y and this is my friend Z.
    Her: Cool
    Me: Where abouts are you from (I thought she had an acent because it was loud but it turned out she was fairly local).
    Her: I'm from this town.
    Her: Hey, you guys don't look like you should be here.
    My Friend: Whys that?
    Her: You look more like people from <another bar>
    Me: Hey hows that?
    Her: A,B and C reason....

    A little fluff from this and she gets up all offended, her friend comes in to say how offended her friend is and why did we do that to her, etc, etc...



    Only last week a girl approached me to tell me what an idiot I looked because I wore a waistcoat...

    Twice recently while I tried to chat to girls who were friends of the girls my friends had approached, the girls I was chatting to said to each other that I was rude or they didn't like me. After like 30seconds of talking... the coneversation could hardly go beyond fluff talk and already I'm rude and aweful???

    2 weeks ago my friend and I got chating to 2 Donegal girls. While my friend got on really well the other girl just totally took a disliking to me, again with hardly any chat.


    Its all stuff like that. I can't even approach nice girls now. They are way too good for me.

    I really dont know what to do. I'd do anything to get real help with this.


    To the other poster. I've tried classes and clubs and stuff but its pretty rare you find the kind of girls you want at these things to be honest. I'm a guy in mid-20's. Its rare you get many girls my own age open to meeting at these classes. I'm speaking from experience, the classes thing is the biggest myth in meeting people. Sure it hapens, but its very rare.

    I agree about the classes thing, I have no idea where that falsehood came from. To be honest OP I can't work out what exactly you are doing wrong, sounds like they are just stuck up but then again like you said your mates did ok with the same girls. Maybe you could just try asking a girl loads of questions about herself and avoid the banter until she warms to you.

    Another thing is why do these threads always turn into a irish female bashinfg thread, why are there are so many Irish men that just hate Irish women? Seriously I really do feel that just because I am an Irishwoman that I must be inherently unloveable, really sort of upsetting.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Fugly wrote: »
    I like how it always comes to the "Irish women are bitches german/spanishs/swedish* girls are soo much nicer" point. :rolleyes:.

    Well it's easier for a man to say that than admit that he has a chip on his shoulder about Irish women. Now the question remains, which came first : bitchy Irish women, or bitchy Irish men? In my opinion, those two groups deserve each other! More nice men left for me : )


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Idbatterim stay on topic. Only helpful posts are welcome here. Please read the charter.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭BumbleB


    Just for the record , I think Irish women are great .Now I've gone out with a lot of different nationalities which was nice , but now I'm getting back to my roots so as to speak. I dont find a problem with ther vast majority but some are damn rude alright. Some even are very rude to my friends .I haven't experienced it first hand, because women dont generally diss guys who are twice as tall as them, but I feel sorry for the guy who has the courage to go up to a girl and her rebuff him.

    Its sad to that Irish women are also getting more aggressive in their manner towards everybody like Irish men and non nationals .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Its horrible though. Because it seems like alot of posters are saying, don't bother with Irish women they are all awful and you are wasting your time even talking to them. And I am sitting her going does this mean I am never going to find a good relationship because by default I'm a cow, even though I might not be. It really makes me want to give up entirely and become a hermit. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Its horrible though. Because it seems like alot of posters are saying, don't bother with Irish women they are all awful and you are wasting your time even talking to them. And I am sitting her going does this mean I am never going to find a good relationship because by default I'm a cow, even though I might not be. It really makes me want to give up entirely and become a hermit. :(

    Clearly these lads have no qualms about making girls feel like crap...and are those the kinds of guys you'd go for anyway? Foreign women are absolutely welcome to them as far as I'm concerned :pac:

    The lads who voice their hatred for Irish women any chance they can get on any thread remotely related to chatting up women on this website are not the majority, Lux. They're ignorant to let some Irish wagons taint their view on the female population of this country and stupid to speak about "foreign" women (all 3.5 billion of them...who all hail from that well known country of "Foreign"). They come on here as a kind of revenge against us (knowing that plenty of Irish women read these post) because some snotty cow wouldn't acknowledge them last weekend, bruised their egos, can't handle it and are now taking it out on all of us. It's pathetic to say the least.

    Most Irish guys are not like this but if I stupid enough to judge all Irish men on the attitudes of the few on this website just like they've done with us, then I'd be getting the first plane out of the country tomorrow (I am actually leaving in two weeks).

    Feck'em Lux!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭blairbear


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Clearly these lads have no qualms about making girls feel like crap...and are those the kinds of guys you'd go for anyway? Foreign women are absolutely welcome to them as far as I'm concerned :pac:

    The lads who voice their hatred for Irish women any chance they can get on any thread remotely related to chatting up women on this website are not the majority, Lux. They're ignorant to let some Irish wagons taint their view on the female population of this country and stupid to speak about "foreign" women (all 3.5 billion of them...who all hail from that well known country of "Foreign"). They come on here as a kind of revenge against us (knowing that plenty of Irish women read these post) because some snotty cow wouldn't acknowledge them last weekend, bruised their egos, can't handle it and are now taking it out on all of us. It's pathetic to say the least.

    Most Irish guys are not like this but if I stupid enough to judge all Irish men on the attitudes of the few on this website just like they've done with us, then I'd be getting the first plane out of the country tomorrow (I am actually leaving in two weeks).

    Feck'em Lux!

    +1 completely on this whole post. The attitude of some of the men on this thread is just disgusting. I'm Irish and am regularly on nights out and I sure as hell wouldn't rudely rebuff a guy if I wasn't interested. But I've heard guys in college who don't know me refer to me as a total bitch because I knocked back one of their friends (in a polite way) and automatically I'm an unfriendly, up-myself cow! The only time I've seen any of my friends being outright rude to a man in a club is if some eejit is repeatedly drunkenly lurching up to the group, can't get the message and won't leave us alone. I reserve the right to be unpleasant to some guy who's determined to spend his whole night annoying me! But I'd never let these incidences colour my opinion of Irish men because I firmly believe that there are some absolute gentleman up there.

    I'd LOVE to know the exact line that annoyed this girl the OP was talking to..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    blairbear wrote: »
    +1 completely on this whole post. The attitude of some of the men on this thread is just disgusting. I'm Irish and am regularly on nights out and I sure as hell wouldn't rudely rebuff a guy if I wasn't interested. But I've heard guys in college who don't know me refer to me as a total bitch because I knocked back one of their friends (in a polite way) and automatically I'm an unfriendly, up-myself cow! The only time I've seen any of my friends being outright rude to a man in a club is if some eejit is repeatedly drunkenly lurching up to the group, can't get the message and won't leave us alone. I reserve the right to be unpleasant to some guy who's determined to spend his whole night annoying me! But I'd never let these incidences colour my opinion of Irish men because I firmly believe that there are some absolute gentleman up there.

    I'd LOVE to know the exact line that annoyed this girl the OP was talking to..

    Hi, this is the OP.
    I actually remembered the conversation talking to my friend about those girls and what happened was after she said we didn't look like people from "this bar" she said that me and my friend looked like a gay couple. Like, I can take a joke and I don't mind if its said in a silly way but it wasn't really so I think I said something like "Um, why?" and "Well thats sort of rude to say" at which point she went to her friend saying we had offended her or some rubbish.


    Look, I'm not someone who thinks all Irish girls are stuck up, their not, i know lots of nice girls as friends. But when it comes to meeting girls a lot of girls tend to set their sights enormously high standards wise (and hey, why not I guess, but they can't all marry Brad Pitt) and since theres so many really drunk guys chancing their arms, girls have a tendancy to just brush off any guy who comes up to them in a pub assuming he's probably drunk or a creep.

    If you can get past that and they see you're a nice guy they are then Irish girls are the nicest of all I think but the problem is breaking through that barrier from random guy they don't know to genuine nice guy they know they can chat to... I just can't break through this if its a girl I dont already know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi, this is the OP.
    I actually remembered the conversation talking to my friend about those girls and what happened was after she said we didn't look like people from "this bar" she said that me and my friend looked like a gay couple. Like, I can take a joke and I don't mind if its said in a silly way but it wasn't really so I think I said something like "Um, why?" and "Well thats sort of rude to say" at which point she went to her friend saying we had offended her or some rubbish.


    Although a woman being referred to as a lesbian seems to be a highly popular insult amongst men when they've been knocked back, I've never heard of a woman using the gay card to insult a man. I don't understand why you think she was rude to think you were gay??? She might have honestly thought you were and was probably surprised when you were offended. You could have just turned it around and charmed the pants off her, instead of telling her that you thought it was rude of her to say it.

    Another thing, did you hear her say to her friend that you had offended her? Or are you assuming that's what she said?


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