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Bad reactions from girls
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15-08-2009 03:54PM#1
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If you've read the pick-up stuff, you'll already know that you can't come onto someone before they're attracted to you. Otherwise it's likely that you'll get a reaction like this, because human nature won't let us give reactions until there's an action to spark it. So maybe that'll put things into better context for you.
BUT the main thing that strikes me is that you don't get these reactions as often as you think you do. How often do they occur? The reaction you're thinking of...how often has THAT EXACT REACTION occured in the last week? Month? Year? Etc.
An educated guess would say that it's ACTUALLY happened less than ten times in total.
What's going on in your head is that each of these reactions have a knock on effect that's made you anxious of trying it again. It's the old adage of kicking a dog when it bites you: you only need to do it once, maybe twice, before it gets the hint that doing this is wrong.
Unfortunately, what you've likely programmed into your head is that approaching people is wrong...when it's not. What's wrong is how you're approaching them.
So, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like for you to give me an in-depth account of one such happening. Word-for-word. Also give the context of the situation, how you best remember your body language, tone of voice etc, when exactly she started reacting like she did and what exactly her reaction WAS.
Then we'll get working on how you're going to improve your interactions in the future.
It's cool dude. Trust me, I'd say a good 70% of guys either deal with, or have dealt with, what you're going through on a day-to-day basis. The only thing that makes your problem stand out is that you've the balls to come on a public forum, admit it and look to improve it. So respect for that.0 -
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being a foreigner myself I can confirm NickNolte's impression. for instance, i have never been discriminated against in ireland except by women. last time a girl chatted me up but as soon as I had mentioned I was German she pretty much said good-bye, turned around and left. another time, same question where I was from I was told "oh you're german? well somebody had to be I guess...".
of course I am generalizing and this does not apply to all Irish women but try and talk to spanish, italian, french, polish, czech, russian, german, austrian, swedish or whatever nationality girls - it doesn't matter: all of them will be nice, open and friendly from my experience. when being abroad you'll also find girls to be a lot more approachable than here. my big trouble is that you hardly find foreign single girls anywhere
So OP, if you want to boost your self-confidence (because that is what you need), book a flight and go to any place in continental europe and try your luck again. In Germany for instance, the pure fact that you're a foreigner will give you bonus points with girls because you come from a different culture and hence are more interesting because you're literally extraordinary.
then come back to ireland knowing it's not you, it's them and I am sure as ironic as life is you will chat up a girl and she will be nice.0 -
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Unregistered wrote: »Ok, I can give you an example of last night. I was in a club with 2 guy friends. We were sitting in a kind of lounge area.
One of my friends sitting across from me decides to go talk to 2 girls sitting alone across from us. Within 30 seconds one of them has come and sat next to me while the other one sits across with my friend.
So she is to my right and our other friend is sitting to my left.
Me: Hi, how's it going? Who are you? (little smile to be friendly and extended hand to shake)
Her: Hi, I'm X.
At this stage, there is nothing from her position to make you interested in knowing who she is. If your conversation ever comes to who you are, what you do, where are you from, it's a big giant fail. Never bother asking her name, wait for her to introduce herself, or a friend of hers if you know them already to do so.Me: Hi X, I'm Y and this is my friend Z.
Her: Cool
This isn't a friend, this a kick ass great buddy of yours who you have shared countless interesting experiences with. Think "Z bailed me out of jail" as an extreme exampleMe: Where abouts are you from (I thought she had an acent because it was loud but it turned out she was fairly local).
Her: I'm from this town.
Her: Hey, you guys don't look like you should be here.
My Friend: Whys that?
Her: You look more like people from <another bar>
Me: Hey hows that?
Her: A,B and C reason....
This is all entirely crap. No offence, but it's going nowhere. This girl is not your cousin. Stop trying to figure out why you might know here from x,y,z place or reason. By saying "people from x", you can come across as judgemental, which is no bad thing if she is testing you, but you have no reason so far to be offering her your HIGHLY VALUED opinion on things.Only last week a girl approached me to tell me what an idiot I looked because I wore a waistcoat...
This is a clumsy opener by a girl (I am willing to bet she was Irish BTW). forget the content, just appreciate the form; she started the conversation - you shoudl then lead it.I've tried classes and clubs and stuff but its pretty rare you find the kind of girls you want at these things to be honest. I'm a guy in mid-20's. Its rare you get many girls my own age open to meeting at these classes. I'm speaking from experience, the classes thing is the biggest myth in meeting people. Sure it hapens, but its very rare.
What you are doing in a class is expanding your social network. You are not going to actively hit on all the girls there; instead, use it as an opportunity to get to know people while forgetting entirely about trying to get them in the sack. Just make friends, real friends.
Just as an aside; whatever you have learned about picking up women in Ireland, forget it, because whatever you are doing has not been working so it's time to try something new, and that means experimenting
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This is a crazy situation but oddly believeable. Which is why I also recommend the OP book a flight to somewhere, but in this instance, Germany, and specifically Berlin, because there a million clubs and TBH people and especially women and far more approachable for simply talking. waterworks, 40 seconds, etc., . If the OP went there, and walked in, opened up a group, he would find he is treated more like a fellow human being then what typically happens in Ireland. The difference is astounding, and I say this as a 100% Irish man. Whatever Irish women think they have somehow suffered unduly for for some reason is non-existent.
Ireland is small, colloquial and socially limited. There are no real clubs here, so look further afield for the scene that you will fit into; undoubtedly you will suit it well.
A: Women are the same the world over. This is a ridiculous notion.
There's just as likely to be tons of Germans thinking 'Wow...Irish girls are so easy...'
The only DIFFERENCE between countries are small cultural one's...but the laws of attraction are built into us when we're born. They're applicable to humans as a SPECIES...not to individual CULTURES.
If you're not having success in Ireland, it's not because the women here are all bitches. It's because you BELIEVE that the women here are bitches so go into it with a defeating mindset. Whereas you also BELIEVE that German girls suit you better so you go into it with a winning mindset...therefore have more success. It really IS that simple.
OP don't go spending ridiculous amounts of money travelling across the world when you can just get a bus into your nearest city centre and solve the problem.
B: One poster noted that these women were likely just cold individuals. I don't believe that either.
I realise that this poster was trying to make you feel better about yourself...but really it gives you nothing to work with. All that piece of advice gives you is a limiting belief like the one mentioned above.
See if you blame the girls all the time and become one of those guys who simply calls girls who don't like him 'lesbians' or 'bitches' then you're not solving the problem. What can you do if they're all 'bitches'? Nothing, you can't change them through a 10-second interaction!
Besides, rarely have I ever met a person who I'd consider a 'bitch' or 'bastard' through and through. Yes, women can be bitchy at times. I went into reasons why they can be bitchy in this environment in a previous post. But it doesn't mean that they're not decent people at the core of it...and it definitely doesn't mean that they're people you couldn't enjoy either a great night with or a fulfilling relationship with.
If you look at it from the angle where you blame yourself...it's a lot more constructive believe it or not. Don't beat yourself up, just give yourself an honest appraisal of where the interaction went sour and make sure you remedy it the next time. Try to approach another woman, if possible, almost immediately afterwards and have a better interaction with her.
So on a night out, you're turning negatives into positives and setbacks into lessons. You'll improve much faster this way.
C: Here's a nugget of info that will genuinely change your life if you understand it, accept it and believe it:
When a woman rejects you, she doesn't reject you as a person. How can she? She's only known you a matter of seconds/minutes and doesn't realise all of the cool things you've got going on for you.
What she IS rejecting is your approach. That few seconds/minutes you two were chatting.
It'd take years for you to fix yourself as a whole person...but you can redeem yourself in seconds if you just make another approach and improve it.
This is another myth:Just be an ass hole... chicks love that.
Chicks don't love arseholes. Try going up to a buncha women on a night and telling them they're trying too hard and look awful. That's being an arsehole. By your rationale, you should be able to have tons of phone numbers by the end of the night. Let me know how you get on.
Women love the difference between a STRONG man as opposed to a weak man.
A weak man will lick her arse...tell her that she's beautiful within minutes of meeting her for no good reason...be unable to match her eye contact because he clearly feels unworthy of her etc etc.
A strong man won't have to do this. A strong man will be able to attract her through the sheer force of his personality. A strong man will be able to say what he TRULY feels to a woman and not dilute his words to suit her. A strong man won't be afraid of offending or disagreeing with her...even if it means she'll walk away...because a strong man has other options.
Arseholes often tend to be stronger men. That's where you see the correlation. But you can easily be a nice guy and a strong man at the same time. A lick arse isn't neccessarily a nice guy though...he's a weak guy.
E: Here's some more info that will change your life when you 'get it':
Men are creatures of logic. Women are creatures of emotion. Men will respond to things which make sense to them. Women will respond to things which make them feel good about themselves.
You may think that this is a direct contradiction to the above point. If I tell her that she's beautiful, surely she'll feel good about herself, no?
Actually, no.
If you tell her that she's beautiful for no good reason...then she's going to be suspicious of your intentions. Think about it...a supermodel-looking thing walks up to you in the club and immediately starts lauding with compliments. Your first thought isn't "Yeah, this is about right..."...your first thought is, "Eh...what's going on?" Because it's not natural.
Women feel good when you make them laugh, when they get the chance to voice their opinion, when they sing/dance, whatever. It changes from person to person. But it's something VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind and could help you with this problem in particular.0 -
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Unregistered wrote: »This just screams 'attitude problem', do not go looking for girls if you think like this poster (and other posters who've said similar to this).
First of all, don't think it's your fault that the conversations didn't go well. Going by what you said, those girls seemed very unreasonable and rude. Just thank your lucky stars that you didn't have to spend any time longer in their company than was necessary.
Secondly, some girls get very defensive in clubs/pubs because they might get hassled all the time. It's still no excuse for rudeness on their part, but it might help you to realise that you're not doing anything wrong. Move on with your head held high and leave them with their bitterness (because that's what it is).
Thirdly, don't dismiss evening classes. Most people go to these to meet new people, and maybe a boyfriend/girlfriend if they're lucky. Pick something you're interested in, you'll meet like-minded people and you'll have loads to talk about without the added pressure of feeling that 'tonight's the night I meet the right girl'.
Good luck
attitude problem?
I was enlightening the op that not to put all your eggs in one basket, this is now a vibrant multi-cultural city and was emphasizing that there are options *other* than Irish girls.
Everyone I know is dating a foreign girl or married to one (myself included)
When I bump into guys I went to school with or grew up with, its the same story.
Variety is the spice of life
Irish men have more choice now, no longer do they have to tolerate such negative attitudes, YES there are lots of assholes out there, but since most people go to the pub to find someone, what do you expect?
You need to create more opportunities.0 -
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I'll chat to you via PM about the main stuff, just to acknowledge this point for any interested onlookers:Sorry I am not a friend of blaming primary instincts and stone-age survival techniques for everything. The human brain has evolved massively since then and if you have enjoyed some kind of education and care during your childhood and therefore have an ounce of respect for other fellow humans in you you just don't intentionally insult them.
This goes back to the hypothetical scenario I gave in an earlier post of the hot women in the club being approached constantly.
From reading pick-up material, you'll likely have heard of a 'sh1t test'. That's what this is: an unprovoked, hostile comment or action that quickly deciphers if a man has the confidence and strength that would interest her (going back to another point about women loving strong men).
The best way to deal with them is to plough straight through them with either a funny comeback or, failing that, simply ignore it and change the conversation. That way, you're showing them that you're secure in yourself and their attempts to prod at your self-esteem are falling on deaf ears.
As far as cultural difference goes...it's really not a big issue. My own observations tell me that Irish girls (Dubs mainly) are extremely into **** tests...but once you get past that you're IN. Girls from the UK are more relaxed towards being approached...but you're either on the level or you aren't. Girls from the States are friendlier at face value but it takes more work to break through and start pushing their attraction switches. Eastern Europeans are welcome to being approached directly...but it comes to a stage where it's either yay or nay and judge's decision is final. Etc etc.
Of course these are all generalisations and only based on my own personal experiences...but, as you can see, there's NOTHING there that makes ANY culture mentioned completely inpenetrable. You just have to switch up your approach to more effectively push attraction switches. That's called 'calibration'. But since no two girls are EXACTLY the same, you have to calibrate slightly to each individual anyway.
So the small cultural differences don't have that big of an impact. Attraction is attraction. We humans are mere animals...but one species on this planet. We all have opinions, arseholes, and bleed when we're cut. We're not all that different or unique when you look at it from a broader scale.
Besides, the great news is that if you know how to exhibit the traits of a strong man (and therefore later BECOME one), then they'll more than likely be attracted to you anyway...so they'll put THEIR cultural differences aside to coincide with yours. Why should you be the one who has to accomodate them? You're the prize, after all. 0 -
Foreign women FTW. Much more approachable. Much friendlier, relaxed attitude towards socialising. Won't be abusive towards you if they don't fancy you. Obviously that's a gross generalisation but the fact of the matter is that many Irish women on the 'social scene' are incredibly hostile and nasty. This post it likely to spark off another gender war - but it's just from my experience... I don't speak for anyone else.
+1
I was back home during the weekend for a friend's birthday and we went to a late bar/club with good music. There were a group of girls standing next to us who were on a hen night. I started chatting up this girl from Newbridge who had an awful attitude. One of her friends behind her laughed in my face pointing to me as if to say, look who is trying to chat up my mate. Sensing that I was humiliated I simply turned around and turned towards my friends.
An hour later I got chatting to a Spanish bird and got her number. The difference in her and that stuck up Irish bird was uncomparable. I'd love to meet an Irish girl but everyone of them I talk to leaves alot to be desired. Personality is the clincher for me and many of these girls have none. A Polish mate of mine who has gone out with an Irish girl is amazed at their lack of personalities.
Anyway I'm off to Russia next month to stay with my sister in law's family so fun times ahead
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Agree completely, an entirely different experience, RedZ on a wednesday night would be my example before it closed down, was an international student night, you could walk up to pretty much anyone and have an actual friendly decent conversation!Unregistered wrote: »being a foreigner myself I can confirm NickNolte's impression. for instance, i have never been discriminated against in ireland except by women. last time a girl chatted me up but as soon as I had mentioned I was German she pretty much said good-bye, turned around and left. another time, same question where I was from I was told "oh you're german? well somebody had to be I guess...".
of course I am generalizing and this does not apply to all Irish women but try and talk to spanish, italian, french, polish, czech, russian, german, austrian, swedish or whatever nationality girls - it doesn't matter: all of them will be nice, open and friendly from my experience. when being abroad you'll also find girls to be a lot more approachable than here. my big trouble is that you hardly find foreign single girls anywhere
So OP, if you want to boost your self-confidence (because that is what you need), book a flight and go to any place in continental europe and try your luck again. In Germany for instance, the pure fact that you're a foreigner will give you bonus points with girls because you come from a different culture and hence are more interesting because you're literally extraordinary.
then come back to ireland knowing it's not you, it's them and I am sure as ironic as life is you will chat up a girl and she will be nice.
Damn foreigners, being so friendly and nice 0 -
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I like how it always comes to the "Irish women are bitches german/spanishs/swedish* girls are soo much nicer" point. :rolleyes:.
Yes some are, you've 2 options only hit one those nationalities you deem nice or risk it and hit on irish (and foreign) girls and risk encountering the odd dragon.
I'm an Irish bitch girl, and I notice 3 things about the whole "hitting on" scene in Ireland.
1. The majority of people only "hit on" someone, in a pub/club.
2. It's nicer to get hit on abroad, there's still the sleaze element but because flirting can occur at any situation, your memories are more mixed than a night in a pub with drunken/sleazy men.
3. It never happens enough. :rolleyes:.. but that may just be me.
As for lines, for the majority they suck.
Opening with a joke/insult/innuendo with charm can work, but it's charm not the line. I've had a man in a bookshop insult my choice of book, did so wittily/friendly way, which is why I talked to him. Also a man who asked how could I wear black and navy in a bar, again in a mocking way with a smile. Nice intelligent men, but if they had mocked me in a patronising/snide way, I would have ignored them completely.
It's all in the delivery, if you're a charming/funny guy work with that, if your quiet strong silent type, work with that. The eye-contact across a room can work, not if you're just staring at her boob/ass though. Also a hello, always works, if she's rude, then she's rude, it's not a reflection on you! Unless, you've opened with "Are those beauties real? :rolleyes: when did that ever work?
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I think we really need to flirt/small talk more, which I've noticed most ppl don't seem comfortable with. I'm pretty chatty with everyone, and I'm told I do flirt, I like to banter with most men I meet, it's only conversation. :rolleyes:
I've encountered men who lacked ability to chat-up a girl and usually were offensively rude trying and failing at humour, mostly with Irish men it has to be said. If you can't work a line, what's wrong with a conversation?
As for the PUA "tricks" girls see them straight off nowadays due to the popularity of pua's now so most will lose interest ritght there.
This and a very drunk man are a losing combo, IMO.
And who started the myth about night classes/clubs!?
*swedish girls are generally way better looking which is reason enough to just want to hit on them exclusively.0 -
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Its horrible though. Because it seems like alot of posters are saying, don't bother with Irish women they are all awful and you are wasting your time even talking to them. And I am sitting her going does this mean I am never going to find a good relationship because by default I'm a cow, even though I might not be. It really makes me want to give up entirely and become a hermit. 0
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Its horrible though. Because it seems like alot of posters are saying, don't bother with Irish women they are all awful and you are wasting your time even talking to them. And I am sitting her going does this mean I am never going to find a good relationship because by default I'm a cow, even though I might not be. It really makes me want to give up entirely and become a hermit.
Clearly these lads have no qualms about making girls feel like crap...and are those the kinds of guys you'd go for anyway? Foreign women are absolutely welcome to them as far as I'm concerned :pac:
The lads who voice their hatred for Irish women any chance they can get on any thread remotely related to chatting up women on this website are not the majority, Lux. They're ignorant to let some Irish wagons taint their view on the female population of this country and stupid to speak about "foreign" women (all 3.5 billion of them...who all hail from that well known country of "Foreign"). They come on here as a kind of revenge against us (knowing that plenty of Irish women read these post) because some snotty cow wouldn't acknowledge them last weekend, bruised their egos, can't handle it and are now taking it out on all of us. It's pathetic to say the least.
Most Irish guys are not like this but if I stupid enough to judge all Irish men on the attitudes of the few on this website just like they've done with us, then I'd be getting the first plane out of the country tomorrow (I am actually leaving in two weeks).
Feck'em Lux!0 -
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