Coming Down Gears

NFH

I'm having trouble when it comes to slowing and then coming down the gears when approching a round about or a turn. So lets say I'm approching a round about in 4th, what I end up doing is breaking to bring my speed down a good bit, then I clutch and with my foot still on the clutch I go to 3rd and then straight to 2nd and if I have to stop then 1st. Basiclly I'm coasting and I know that is totally wrong. My problem is I want to go straight from 4th to 2nd, I don't like going down through all the gears but apparently its something you should do to become a good driver etc so I want to.

Ok, so when I try to go down all the gears properly in my approach, I am in 4th, break gradually bringing speed down, clutch go into 3.....now, problem, I take foot back up off clutch and the car kinda jerks(thats my problem), I'm still slowing down, not accelerating anymore cause I'm comin to round about, so Im slowing down, come from 4th to 3rd, slowing all the way then to second etc etc. My problem is that jerk when coming down to 3rd when slowing the car down and then into second etc.

Something I'll also do is when coming to a turn in 3rd and slowing to 2nd and taking the turn with out stopping, I leave my foot on the clutch, coast into the turn and control speed with the break, again totally wrong. I should be slowing from the 3rd into 2nd, realeasing the clutch then and accelerating into turn using break to slow down etc. Sorry for the retardly long post, but any advice would be helpful. I think the main thing I want advice on is coming down gears smoothly and not jerking th car when I let the clutch up after coming down from 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd etc. Cheers

BlackWizard

That jerk means your revs are too high for that gear. So there has to be a quick adjustment made by the car.

See if lettings the revs drop down in 4th gear before dropping a gear help. So in 4th gear slow down until the revs are VERY low then try dropping a gear. You will still feel the jerk a tiny bit, but not enough for your torso or head to be moved.

One other thing, I don't think you should be coming up to a roundabout with no foot on the brake or accelerator. You should probably have it gently on the accelerator for arguments sake. Then when you pass your test you can collect all the eco-nut driving habits you want.

BlackWizard

NFH wrote: »

Something I'll also do is when coming to a turn in 3rd and slowing to 2nd and taking the turn with out stopping, I leave my foot on the clutch, coast into the turn and control speed with the break, again totally wrong. I should be slowing from the 3rd into 2nd, realeasing the clutch then and accelerating into turn using break to slow down etc. Sorry for the retardly long post, but any advice would be helpful. I think the main thing I want advice on is coming down gears smoothly and not jerking th car when I let the clutch up after coming down from 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd etc. Cheers

That might be a bad habit as you know you are doing it. Maybe you could just practice slowing down more. Slow down and get into gear for the corner. Not only should you be in the right gear for the corner but you should be doing the right speed for the corner too. Just go slow and drive like a learner would.

DriveSkill

First of all it is perfectly acceptable to come from 4th gear straight to 2nd gear - it is known as 'block changing' and is actually the recommended way of driving if you are slowing down from a 4th/5th to take a junction on the left or right in 2nd gear for example.

The jerk you are getting is due to one of 2 things :

a) the speed is too high for the gear you are selecting - solution brake more before changing gear

or,

b) you are leaving up the clutch too quickly. Remember you must leave up the clutch smoothly at all times, dont jump off it. While the clutch is coming up you should be easing back on the accelerator.

The key to getting a smooth gear change when slowing down is 'Brake first, then clutch & gear change' You must get the speed down first and then engage the lower gear, dont rush the gear change until you have slowed down sufficiently.

not14talk

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but what I tend to do is to continue to break while I am letting my foot off the clutch is this wrong?

Rubberlegs

yes getting the speed down when approaching a roundabout or corner is a must. Start breaking well in advance, slow and steady, my instructor tells me to get speed down to 20k then i always go 4th to 2nd. but God its so easy to get into bad habits. just had to have lesson this week as i knew i was doing something wrong on roundabouts and corners. Turns out was not slowing down soon enough, then not coming up off clutch fully and also keeping foot on brake when entering roundabout or turning corner. Must say felt bit deflated at having to go back to basics again, as am driving 10months and waiting on test date. . .

Rubberlegs

not14talk wrote: »

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but what I tend to do is to continue to break while I am letting my foot off the clutch is this wrong?

yes as the clutch is to go and the brake is to stop, driving instructor just told me this week that its like trying to cycle while pulling the brakes. . .

DrivingInfo

not14talk wrote: »

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but what I tend to do is to continue to break while I am letting my foot off the clutch is this wrong?

This IS FINE. Just make sure it is smooth.

Regards

TequilaMockingBird

Thanks for the above. May I jump in with a similar question?

When I'm reversing, I don't let the clutch up fully (its too fast for comfortable reversing), so I have my feet on the clutch and the brake, essentially controlling it with the brake. I was told I should be controlling it by increasing/decreasing pressure on the clutch, and hovering over the brake. Is this correct?

NFH

Thanks for all the advice, very helpful.

DrivingInfo

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Thanks for the above. May I jump in with a similar question?

When I'm reversing, I don't let the clutch up fully (its too fast for comfortable reversing), so I have my feet on the clutch and the brake, essentially controlling it with the brake. I was told I should be controlling it by increasing/decreasing pressure on the clutch, and hovering over the brake. Is this correct?

When in first or reverse gear it is known as clutch control and not cousting, so you can go up and down on you clutch as much as you need.
NOTE:
DO NOT press the brake when you have the clutch up, control your speed with the clutch and stop using the clutch and brake.
If you are reversing uphill you may need a little accelerator.
If you are reversing downhill you may need a little brake to control speed, NO Accelerator, NO Clutch.

A good tip for the next question usually asked “How fast do I go?” would be about walking pace when the road is clear, stop when not clear.
I hope the helps.

Regards

GTE

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Thanks for the above. May I jump in with a similar question?

When I'm reversing, I don't let the clutch up fully (its too fast for comfortable reversing), so I have my feet on the clutch and the brake, essentially controlling it with the brake. I was told I should be controlling it by increasing/decreasing pressure on the clutch, and hovering over the brake. Is this correct?

If you have a straight piece of road, say in an estate, stop the car, engage first and in the slowest way you have ever done it lift your foot off the clutch. After a bit you will hear the engine strain as it gets the load of the car transmitted to it. At this point stop, the car shouldnt be moving but if it is slightly dont worry about it, and now even slower and slighter then you were doing press the clutch again untill the engine stops sounding strained, then do it again but this time when the engine strains again slowly lift your foot off again and the car will begin to creep forward.

Once you are used to that then you can do it for reversing.

My instructor said that its a case of less then millimeters.
Just for arguments sake lets say your clutch pedal moves 20cm, nothing will happen for about 17cm but then in the next few mm you will be in this clutch control zone that you need for reversing and crawling in traffic.

According to what I have been taught, in this situation I can only use the break once I push the clutch back in, not when in hovering round the biting point that I was talking about.

Hope it helps

dudara

DrivingInfo wrote: »

When in first or reverse gear it is known as clutch control and not cousting, so you can go up and down on you clutch as much as you need.
NOTE:
DO NOT press the brake when you have the clutch up, control your speed with the clutch and stop using the clutch and brake.
If you are reversing uphill you may need a little accelerator.
If you are reversing downhill you may need a little brake to control speed, NO Accelerator, NO Clutch.

A good tip for the next question usually asked “How fast do I go?” would be about walking pace when the road is clear, stop when not clear.
I hope the helps.

Regards

When in 1st or reverse, you can think of the clutch as being a "fine brake control" - in other words you can use it for very fine braking/moving motion. You need this fine level of control over the car to be able to drive in everyday traffic. Just get out on a quiet road and practice. You should end up being able to move the car forward/backwards by 5cm very smoothly. Being able to balance to clutch and the accelerator is a good level of skill.

However, in other situation (high speeds, going around bends etc) using the clutch continuously is not advisable and is known as "coasting".

kaimera

Going from say 4th -> 2nd down thru the gears, you don't have to come up off the clutch fully? ie. foot off?

Insured on my housemates car at the mo, and only driving with him with me and I've been having problems like the OP; jerk when coming down the gears.

So now I'm breaking...4-3...ease up clutch, let it bite...foot still on clutch, press...3-2...ease up, let it bite and now I'm in second and speed is down.

yes/no ?

DriveSkill

kaimera wrote: »

Going from say 4th -> 2nd down thru the gears, you don't have to come up off the clutch fully? ie. foot off?

Insured on my housemates car at the mo, and only driving with him with me and I've been having problems like the OP; jerk when coming down the gears.

So now I'm breaking...4-3...ease up clutch, let it bite...foot still on clutch, press...3-2...ease up, let it bite and now I'm in second and speed is down.

yes/no ?

Short answer : No.

You must come off the clutch fully at every gear change so it should be :

Assume driving in 4th gear
Depress clutch
Select 3rd gear
Release clutch fully
drive in 3rd gear
Depress clutch
select 2nd gear
Release clutch fully

If you are 'half on/half off' the clutch in any gear other than 1st or reverse then you are coasting. I suggest you practice going straight from 4th to 2nd and skip 3rd gear completely - it actually is easier to do!

Remember that the brakes are for slowing not the gears, so get the speed down first with the brakes and then select the appropriate gear - dont start the gear change at the same time as you are starting to brake.

kaimera

but is it coasting if the clutch isnt released fully yet the new gear is engaged?

GTE

kaimera wrote: »

but is it coasting if the clutch isnt released fully yet the new gear is engaged?

On a more fundemental note you should not be half on half off the clutch at any point aside from reversing and setting off which has been said. If you are hoovering on the clutch all the time going down through the gears the clucth may overheat.

So, even if that wasnt deemed as coasting you still couldnt do it as you would end up burning out your clutch.

DrivingInfo

Hi all

In cars these days you use the breaks to slow the car and then select the gear which suits the speed, BUT you can (CAN!) slow down using the gears in the same way as you would in an old car.

Break to take away speed and while you are slowing change down a gear then lift the clutch to griping point, now at this point you can ether lift the clutch up OR push the clutch back in to change gear or stop.

You only need to engage the gear when slowing, you don’t need to lift your foot all of the way, as this may not be required. All of this should be done in a controlled fashion and a Qualified Driving Instructor on a live Lesson will check that you are doing it correctly.

If you do not understand how to slowdown you can easily lose control, so please be careful and practice in a safe area.

Regards

TequilaMockingBird

Sorry, just seen the replies to my question now - many thanks for the advice.

Varyn

Hey, just wondering about the block gear changing. The other day with my instructor I was coming up to a ramp, was in 4th gear and had to change down to second. I did this in one go and the car didn't jerk or anythin, but he said that I shouldn't have, that I should have gone into third gear, foot off the clutch, then slowed down further to second gear? Is this wrong or is it a different situation because it's a ramp?

brian076

Varyn wrote: »

Hey, just wondering about the block gear changing. The other day with my instructor I was coming up to a ramp, was in 4th gear and had to change down to second. I did this in one go and the car didn't jerk or anythin, but he said that I shouldn't have, that I should have gone into third gear, foot off the clutch, then slowed down further to second gear? Is this wrong or is it a different situation because it's a ramp?

Consider getting a new instructor, what you did was perfectly fine, and if he's saying this was wrong, what other poor info is he giving you.

DrivingInfo

Varyn wrote:

Hey, just wondering about the block gear changing. The other day with my instructor I was coming up to a ramp, was in 4th gear and had to change down to second. I did this in one go and the car didn't jerk or anythin, but he said that I shouldn't have, that I should have gone into third gear, foot off the clutch, then slowed down further to second gear? Is this wrong or is it a different situation because it's a ramp?

Sorry to say this as you have spent money with that instructor, Brian is correct you should get another instructor.

Regards

jimmyw

Personally I go down through the gears when coming to a roundabout for instance, suppose I just learned that way and would be afraid I would not match the gears with the speed. I also had to do it this way when I was learning for my rigid truck licence, but I would say its not wrong to block gear.

J_R

Varyn wrote: »

he said that I should have gone into third gear, foot off the clutch, then slowed down further to second gear? Is this wrong or is it a different situation because it's a ramp?

Not wrong, but much better driving to block change and not change down when stopping. You will not be marked either way - if done correctly.

That is clutch FULLY UP each time you change and not as advised by a previous poster letting it up to the biting point only.

DrivingInfo

:rolleyes: @ J_R

DrivingInfo

J_R wrote: »

That is clutch FULLY UP each time you change and not as advised by a previous poster letting it up to the biting point only.

OMG,
Start to think outside of your little box and you will understand what i'm talking about. Also J_R read the post properly, "see red below".

By Drivinginfo
You only need to engage the gear when slowing, you don’t need to lift your foot all of the way, as this may not be required. All of this should be done in a controlled fashion and a Qualified Driving Instructor on a live Lesson will check that you are doing it correctly.

Regards

J_R

Hi Drivinginfo.

Your post on changing

Break to take away speed and while you are slowing change down a gear then lift the clutch to griping point, now at this point you can ether lift the clutch up OR push the clutch back in to change gear or stop.

You only need to engage the gear when slowing, you don’t need to lift your foot all of the way, as this may not be required. All of this should be done in a controlled fashion and a Qualified Driving Instructor on a live Lesson will check that you are doing it correctly.

There are two options, change gears or not.

1. Change gears, to do so you depress clutch, select gear, release clutch FULLY.

or

2. Do not change gears. Then you simply depress clutch fully.

Your way you are riding the clutch.

and again

If you are not going to change you depress clutch do not let it up again.

If you are changing down you must release the clutch fully between changes.

If you are only letting up the clutch to the griping point, (never heard that word before but assume you mean the holding or biting point), all you are doing is spinning the two clutch plates together. Which will result in very little engine braking effect, merely burn your clutch.

Last post

DrivingInfo

OK J_R

I have had to many pupils come to me for advice because they got poor information from their driving instructor.

What IF the driver needs to change when their half way trough a change, in other words they are going to 4th but they need to change to 3rd because the situation changed.

In your teaching your learner (LEARNER) now thinks they can only change if they lift the clutch ALL THE WAY before they change again. WELL that is not the case because you are not coasting when you hit griping point.
You come off the clutch fully ONLY and i stress to all the learners who read this, ONLY when it is required. If the situation changes you must change your driving the suit the situation.

When i give advice i try to cover as many situations as possible which would relate to the question. ONE answer to help in many situations.


Just to be fair to you on this you do lift the clutch all the way so that your not burning the clutch, BUT only when required. so what would you do if you were half way trough biting point/griping point and you need to stop or change gear?

O and to all who think your burning the clutch when your slowing.....You are only really burning the clutch when you are accelerating with the clutch half in/up.

J_R

Hi Drivinginfo

was not going to answer, but then just saw the OMG in your reply. Not nice.

About fifteen, twenty minutes into the very first driving lesson with a total beginner I tell them, next time we move off we will change gears. Few practice changes whilst stopped, palm facing correct way etc etc.

Then off we go, when speed correct now talk them through, push in clutch, left hand - steering wheel to gear lever. (in this instance, palm away).

Smoothly move gear lever into 2nd, hand returns to wheel, whilst letting up clutch in one smooth fluid movement, foot back on the foot rest.

And for the remainder of their motoring lives that is how they should change gears. The ONLY exception would be first and reverse gears when maneuvering at very slow speeds.

Each and every gear change should be neat and clean, clutch smoothly in in one fluid controlled movement, release clutch in one fluid continuous motion. Pausing stopping at holding point (or whatever you call it) is ridiculous.

If something unexpected happens whilst gear changing that would come under the heading of "Hazards" and dealt with according to the situation. Has nothing to do with changing gears.

O and to all who think your burning the clutch when your slowing.....You are only really burning the clutch when you are accelerating with the clutch half in/up.

And very interested in the dynamics, physics involved in the above statement, please explain. But only if you can supply quotes and links.

I am not getting bogged down in idiotic arguments again. This is my last post on the subject.

HydeRoad

Chill out a bit, I think the point DrivingInfo is trying to make is that if there isn't time to fully release the clutch, i.e. in split second decisions, then the biting point will do. I think it is more important, and more advanced, to at least demonstrate the techniques of smooth driving. As a bus driver, it is very important not to have passengers' heads bobbing around, and I always drive my car as smoothly as I drive a bus.

To take the example of changing from third to second, if a learner comes off the clutch too briskly, they will create a jerk. The other extreme is to take too long coming off the clutch, and burn the clutch by hovering it for too long, out of fear of jerking. The thing is to find the happy medium. Now in a stopping situation, the decision may be made to change from third to second, but having made that decision, it may happen that there simply isn't time for the learner to come off the clutch all the way and do it smoothly, in which case they will reach the biting point only.

It is often the case that people are very pedantic about 'proper' driving practice, when in fact two or three different situations are all reasonably correct. Nobody has the golden book on exact procedure, not even driving examiners, who will each have their own particular foibles. It is about being in full control of the car at all times, driving the car, and not letting the car drive you. Holding the clutch at biting point for a split second is infinitely better than jerking into the back of someone.

DrivingInfo

J_R

I'm a ADI like you, there are more than one way to change gear, that is what I'm trying to get across to you but you don't seem to understand that.

Have you ever heard of Double Clutching or Reving in to Gear? These are the type of things you learn when driving Category C, D so that your gear changes are smooth.
My family were fire engine drivers and if you can’t change gear in a smooth fashion you would go into a problem of weight distribution (like a bus throwing the passengers around).
I pass this information onto learners of all categories as it makes it better for them.

I am not here to give you advice on teaching as you know it all. If I need to know anything I will call on you.

Thank you for all your help.

Regards