New Firearm Licence Application Forms

daithip

This is for members of AGS, just wondering have many of you had any in-service as to the completing or handling of the new firearms application forms? Or maybe a better question might be, have members been made aware that from now on they will be taking all new firearm licence applications themselves if they happen to be at the station counter when someone comes in with one?

Hooch

Training will be made available for two skippers from each district I believe. They in turn will "show" members on the ground......as skippers cannot be expected to spend 20 mins at the counter filling out a 10 page application.:rolleyes:

To be honest im all for the new applications. Better restrictions on firearms is on the way and in my opinion that could never be a bad thing.

noel32

aint even seen em!!!! good old inservice
there for 3 years now aint they? handy

timmywex

3 year licence's

Gun store must be had for 3 or more guns, its a fairly big form!!

Dad got a days inservice in it a few weeks back

maglite

timmywex wrote: »

3 year licence's

Gun store must be had for 3 or more guns,

not quite, safe for everything above 1 shotgun, safe and alarm for 3 or more guns.

Odysseus

maglite wrote: »

not quite, safe for everything above 1 shotgun, safe and alarm for 3 or more guns.

Maglite, would you mind double checking that, my understanding is as follows:


One restricted firearm or three or fewer non-restricted firearms. Each firearm shall be stored securely in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.


Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms. Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

Just slightly different and I know where I stand around accomadtion, but there seems to be so much stuff out there at the moment that most people are not sure on anything. I got my extention until next June so hopefully it will all be sort by the.

maglite

|Type and number of firearms| Secure accommodation standard
1 |One non-restricted shot-gun.| The shot-gun shall be disassembled and each part shall be stored securely and separately when not in use. The trigger housing shall be secured against use with an appropriate trigger lock.
2 |One restricted firearm or three or fewer non-restricted firearms. |Each firearm shall be stored securely in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.
3 |Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms. | Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.
4 |Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place. | In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

Linky

You need a safe for everything above one shotgun. A safe and alarm for more than 3 guns. Or if you have a "restricted firearm", which lets be honest will be a lot of the guns around.

Odysseus

Cheers Maglite,

That's where I took the stuff I used from, it was just you said a safe and alarm for 3 or more, where that link suggests that you ok alarm wise with 3 non-restricted, its only if you go above that you need the alarm. Well that's my reading of it. Hope it doesn't sound as if I'm just being pedantic, and thanks for replying. Cheers.

maglite

Odysseus wrote: »

... you said a safe and alarm for 3 or more, where that link suggests that you ok alarm wise with 3 non-restricted, its only if you go above that you need the alarm. ... I'm just being pedantic,....

Sorry after re reading I see what you mean. I misworded my first post. It's more than 3, not 3 or more. ie 4 guns need an alarm and safe. 3 need a safe.


Its not pedantic, it would move you into a different category. As an aside has there been a standard set for the alarm. Could it be an Aldi or maplin job and pass by the letter of the law.

Odysseus

maglite wrote: »

Sorry after re reading I see what you mean. I misworded my first post. It's more than 3, not 3 or more. ie 4 guns need an alarm and safe. 3 need a safe.


Its not pedantic, it would move you into a different category. As an aside has there been a standard set for the alarm. Could it be an Aldi or maplin job and pass by the letter of the law.

No too sure for the first level required for an alarm, at the next level there is a standard as noted in the text you posted above. So in its absense I gues not. However, my understanding is that the complete guidelines are not available as yet; for example I don't think there is a full list of what it "restricted" so I think that there is more stuff to be added.

TBH it appears from what I read in the shooting forum that there is alot of stuff that people are unsure of, shooters and FO's alike. I just glad I got my extention letter and it not up until next June as hopefully it will be all sorted by then.

I only received my extention letter during the week, so I was technically not legal in my possesion of the firearm for nearly two weeks.

meathstevie

nice guy always wrote: »

Training will be made available for two skippers from each district I believe. They in turn will "show" members on the ground......as skippers cannot be expected to spend 20 mins at the counter filling out a 10 page application.:rolleyes:

To be honest im all for the new applications. Better restrictions on firearms is on the way and in my opinion that could never be a bad thing.

Don't want to get into a heated argument here but in what sense do you think the new legislation is a "better restriction" on firearms ? The only people who are going to abide by and get frustrated by the legislation are legitimate gun owners who hardly ever cause a problem anyway.

You only need to look at England where legitimate pistol owners have had to move their clubs to the continent to practise their sport while the amount of violent crime in which handguns were used by the suspects has increased dramatically since the ban on private ownership of handguns.

Hooch

meathstevie wrote: »

Don't want to get into a heated argument here but in what sense do you think the new legislation is a "better restriction" on firearms ? The only people who are going to abide by and get frustrated by the legislation are legitimate gun owners who hardly ever cause a problem anyway.

You only need to look at England where legitimate pistol owners have had to move their clubs to the continent to practise their sport while the amount of violent crime in which handguns were used by the suspects has increased dramatically since the ban on private ownership of handguns.

One im a gun owner and user myself. Under and over and .22 and was hoping to get a pistol in near future (just for background).

Two - Take Abbeylara and Gort.......both incidents the persons involved should not have firearms and discharged the firearm illegally.

Three - Take firearms robbery from private persons, new restrictions include safes and alarms. (while I know most serious gun owners had safes, I do, it will now be mandatory for above restrictions)


Restrictions on firearms can never be a bad thing. Serious gun users involved in genuine clubs should have no problem with the new law. Most in my area have welcomed it.

meathstevie

nice guy always wrote: »

One im a gun owner and user myself. Under and over and .22 and was hoping to get a pistol in near future (just for background).

Two - Take Abbeylara and Gort.......both incidents the persons involved should not have firearms and discharged the firearm illegally.

Three - Take firearms robbery from private persons, new restrictions include safes and alarms. (while I know most serious gun owners had safes, I do, it will now be mandatory for above restrictions)


Restrictions on firearms can never be a bad thing. Serious gun users involved in genuine clubs should have no problem with the new law. Most in my area have welcomed it.

Your first point, that makes two of us so...3 shotguns ( one which will be restricted under the new rules ) and a .22 hornet

Your second point, I don't know enough about the two cases to comment on them but the firearms legislation as it was until recently and as far as I know still is gives a local Superintendent the power to immedeatly revoke a licence when he deems a person to be of unsound mind or behaviour.

Your third point, as proven by the figures for stolen firearms recovered after use in crime as provided by the Minister for Justice in the Dail and published in the shooting forum : negligable.

I'm a firm believer in a good sturdy gun cabinet/safe and safe storage but I don't believe in alarms at all. Nobody pays any attention to non-monitored alarms and if there's a monitored alarm activation in a house where there's firearms present I don't think any Garda is suicidal enough to rush in to check it out. By the time the monitoring procedure has gone through it's steps and an emergency is being logged and responded to by appropiatly equipped gardai the burglar could have driven from Dublin City to Drogheda depending on district resources.

I'm absolutely in favour of draconian legislation AND resources for enforcement of it when it comes to the possession of illegal firearms and the trafficing of such. Unfortunately the new legislation doesn't fit that description as it first and foremost targets licensed firearms and their owners.

What I want to see is legislation put before the Dail that can have some little coked up scumbag with an illegaly imported pistol stuck down his waistband sent to jail for life instead of some legislation that will allow the government to go before the Dail and boast that they have removed 2500 evil baby killing pistols from society while conveniently forgetting to mention that those pistols never were a problem to start with as they were owned by law abiding people.

Hooch

meathstevie wrote: »

Your second point, I don't know enough about the two cases to comment on them but the firearms legislation as it was until recently and as far as I know still is gives a local Superintendent the power to immedeatly revoke a licence when he deems a person to be of unsound mind or behaviour.

Your third point, as proven by the figures for stolen firearms recovered after use in crime as provided by the Minister for Justice in the Dail and published in the shooting forum : negligable.

I'm a firm believer in a good sturdy gun cabinet/safe and safe storage but I don't believe in alarms at all. Nobody pays any attention to non-monitored alarms and if there's a monitored alarm activation in a house where there's firearms present I don't think any Garda is suicidal enough to rush in to check it out. By the time the monitoring procedure has gone through it's steps and an emergency is being logged and responded to by appropiatly equipped gardai the burglar could have driven from Dublin City to Drogheda depending on district resources.


What I want to see is legislation put before the Dail that can have some little coked up scumbag with an illegaly imported pistol stuck down his waistband sent to jail for life instead of some legislation that will allow the government to go before the Dail and boast that they have removed 2500 evil baby killing pistols from society while conveniently forgetting to mention that those pistols never were a problem to start with as they were owned by law abiding people.

It did give the supt power to revoke the licence, but the district court could over rule the supt. Now the licence application must have a doctor sign off on the licence. Proves state of mind. Although not fool proof as such, it does help.

Although very few stolen private firearms are used in criminal activites here, a lot are sent to other countries. Anyway in my opinion one firearm stolen and used by criminals is one too much.

On the alarms they must be monitored and the monitoring company must be on the register, i understand. And believe me if a monitored alarm comes in and its mentioned there is a firearm stored in the house AGS do rush to the scene! We call for armed assistance if required as backup, but dont ever be under the infulence that we take our time "in case" the firearm is taken from the safe. (in saying that, if someone comes at me with a firearm pointed at me....well thats a different story!!)

With regard to you last paragraph I agree fully with that. Would have liked to have bought a sig for target practice at some stage. :mad:

Bosco boy

what is a restricted firearm and what is not?

I note that photos are required for the application i assume for a picture on the licence, is the other one kept on the garda system?

What happens to all the guns that people decide not to licence?

Any gun should have to be in a gun cabinet! the majority of guns will be single shotguns and they will be unsecure!!!!!!!

Hooch

Bosco boy wrote: »

what is a restricted firearm and what is not?

I note that photos are required for the application i assume for a picture on the licence, is the other one kept on the garda system?

What happens to all the guns that people decide not to licence?

Any gun should have to be in a gun cabinet! the majority of guns will be single shotguns and they will be unsecure!!!!!!!

Photo on licence and photo kept on record.

Guns people decide not to licence will have to be destroyed at the owners expense and the cert of destruction will have to be handed to Garda station.

The majority of firearm owners in the country have two or more firearms. Very few have only a shotgun. Those who only have one are generally farm owners. New legistlation adds for a safe.....before there was no legistlation for gun cabinets.

IRLConor

nice guy always wrote: »

They in turn will "show" members on the ground......as skippers cannot be expected to spend 20 mins at the counter filling out a 10 page application.:rolleyes:

Gardai shouldn't have been filling out the forms all along and shouldn't be filling these ones out either. Total waste of Garda time, probably bored the pants off ye too! Better off have the applicant fill out the paperwork at home and have the Gardai check the completed form. 2mins rather than 20.

nice guy always wrote: »

It did give the supt power to revoke the licence, but the district court could over rule the supt.

Not true, the courts could direct the super to reconsider his/her decision if it had been made contrary to the law. If the super makes a decision to grant or revoke a firearm certificate and does so according to the conditions set out in the Firearms Act then the courts can keep asking him/her to reconsider and he/she can keep making the same decision. If a super puts their foot down, the only way to forcibly overturn their decision on a firearm certificate would be to replace them with a different super or rewrite the law.

The discretion granted to supers under the Firearms Act is pretty broad. If a super says "I am not satisfied that <insert name> can be permitted to have in his possession, use, or carry a firearm or ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace." then he/she may not issue a certificate and may revoke any certificate held by that person.

nice guy always wrote: »

Now the licence application must have a doctor sign off on the licence.

It only requires a doctor's details to be put down on the form, there's no requirement for a doctor to actually sign off on the cert or even know one is being applied for. Most doctors won't be checked with. It's a fig leaf TBH.