Sheol. The dwelling of the dead. But....

JimiTime

Hi guys,
I thought of this on the 'Apostles Creed' thread. So here's the thing.

A common belief is that Sheol/Hades is a two tier dwelling of the dead. One tier for the wicked dead, and one referred to as Abrahams bosom where the righteous dead are until the resurrection.

So here's the question. What of the righteous that were dead before Abraham lived and died? Abel, Noah etc. Where were they?

Joe1919

The Church is the universal sacrament of salvation, since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God's plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being. For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now pope)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Also St. Justin writings
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.xlvi.html

Both say salvation is possible for EVERYONE.

JimiTime

Joe1919 wrote: »

The Church is the universal sacrament of salvation, since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God's plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being. For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now pope)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Also St. Justin writings
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.xlvi.html

Both say salvation is possible for EVERYONE.

Has this got anything to do with my OP?

Joe1919

JimiTime wrote: »

Has this got anything to do with my OP?

The problem you pose has similaraties to the problem of those who proceed Christ in time (i.e. Do those who lived before Christ (or Abraham) suffer some disadvantage in terms of salvation ) and I am putting forward some attempted solutions by authorities ( St. Justin & Joseph Ratzinger) to same.

JimiTime

Joe1919 wrote: »

The problem you pose has similaraties to the problem of those who proceed Christ in time (i.e. Do those who lived before Christ (or Abraham) suffer some disadvantage in terms of salvation ) and I am putting forward some attempted solutions by authorities ( St. Justin & Joseph Ratzinger) to same.

Ah right. Thanks for clarifying. You misunderstand my motive for asking. I'm not talking of salvation. At the end of the day, God will save who he saves, and I've no doubt Noah and Abel will be on that list. I'm quite specifically questioning the doctrine of the two tier sheol. The righteous are alledgedly in Abrahams bosom. However, what of the righteous that preceeded Abraham. where are/were they?

PDN

While Upper Hades is named after Abraham, that doesn't mean it didn't exist before Abraham.

Just as Rodney & Del Boy lived in Nelson Mandela House in Peckham before it was renamed after Mr Mandela.