restricted ?

gunshy

hi ...can anyone tell me if the remington 597 semi -auto .22 is now restricted weapon..also the remington 870 ,getting conflicting answers.cheers

rrpc

gunshy wrote: »

hi ...can anyone tell me if the remington 597 semi -auto .22 is now restricted weapon..also the remington 870 ,getting conflicting answers.cheers

Have a look here.

Everything listed is effectively not restricted (negative list)

So a semi-auto .22 rifle that holds 10 rounds or less in the mag is not restricted.

gunshy

rrpc wrote: »

Have a look here.

Everything listed is effectively not restricted (negative list)

So a semi-auto .22 rifle that holds 10 rounds or less in the mag is not restricted.

thanks rrpc still in the dark over the rem 870.....

rowa

think it depends on the amount of rounds you can get into the magazine , 3 or less i think is ok .

fat-tony

gunshy wrote: »

thanks rrpc still in the dark over the rem 870.....

Why in the dark? If the magazine can hold more than three or the barrel is less than 24" then it's restricted. The section below refers to unrestricted shotguns:


(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them
incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—
(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or
(ii) with a pistol grip, or
(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;

gunshy

f.t....you cleared that up rapidly....so most owners of semi-auto and pump action shotguns are now owners of restricted weapons ,due to there barrel length':(.never mind the amount of cartridges they hold even if that can be tweaked.

fat-tony

Apologies - I know f - all about shotguns, but assumed that all normal shotguns would have 24"+ barrels.

It's an offence for anyone (except a firearms dealer) to have a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 24" or to shorten one so that it is less than 24" (or the metric equivalent). Here's some of the relevant legislation:


12A.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who shortens the barrel of—
(a) a shot-gun to a length of less than 61 centimetres, or
(b) a rifle to a length of less than 50 centimetres is guilty of an offence.
(2) It is not an offence under subsection (1) for a registered firearms dealer to shorten the barrel of a shot-gun or rifle to a length of less than 61 or 50 centimetres respectively if the sole purpose of doing so is to replace a defective part of the barrel with a barrel of not less than 61 or 50 centimetres, as the case may be.

Rovi

fat-tony wrote: »

Why in the dark? If the magazine can hold more than three or the barrel is less than 24" then it's restricted. The section below refers to unrestricted shotguns:


(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them
incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—
(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or
(ii) with a pistol grip, or
(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;

In a magazine fed shotgun , the "incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges" part means that the magazine must be restricted to two cartridges, which along with one in the chamber, will give the total of three necessary to keep the shotgun 'unrestricted'.

As far as I know and have seen, the vast majority of semi-auto and pump shotguns in this country have barrels longer than 24 inches. I've certainly never seen anything shorter.

ranger4

My blaser LRS2 308 has a 5 shot mag but 24in barrel, would it still be classed as restricted firearm?

pajero2005

ranger4 wrote: »

My blaser LRS2 308 has a 5 shot mag but 24in barrel, would it still be classed as restricted firearm?

I would think it is restricted!

fat-tony wrote: »

incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges

griffdude

ranger4 wrote: »

My blaser LRS2 308 has a 5 shot mag but 24in barrel, would it still be classed as restricted firearm?

"shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges,"

You can adapt or modify it to hold less than 5.

foxhunter

griffdude wrote: »

"shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges,"

You can adapt or modify it to hold less than 5.

An lrs2 is a rifle not a shotgun so I doubt it is restricted.

pm.

lads not long back from holidays and im a little confused, i have 2 shotguns a browning gold semi 28" barrel that can only hold 3 shots, a fabarm pump that holds 6 shots 26" barrel, a bolt action bruno .22 mag holds 5 ans a styer .243 that holds 4 shots. would i be correct in saying that i will have to get rid of the pump to get away with installing an alarm ??

pajero2005

foxhunter wrote: »

An lrs2 is a rifle not a shotgun so I doubt it is restricted.

Oops! :D

foxhunter

pm. wrote: »

lads not long back from holidays and im a little confused, i have 2 shotguns a browning gold semi 28" barrel that can only hold 3 shots, a fabarm pump that holds 6 shots 26" barrel, a bolt action bruno .22 mag holds 5 ans a styer .243 that holds 4 shots. would i be correct in saying that i will have to get rid of the pump to get away with installing an alarm ??

You could just plug it up and make it non restricted but you would still need an alarm because you would have more than 3 unrestricted firearms .
So therefore you will need to do away with one of them to get under the radar.

pm.

foxhunter wrote: »

You could just plug it up and make it non restricted but you would still need an alarm because you would have more than 3 unrestricted firearms .
So therefore you will need to do away with one of them to get under the radar.

ok thanks Foxhunter think ill say bye bye to the pump

johngalway

pm. wrote: »

lads not long back from holidays and im a little confused, i have 2 shotguns a browning gold semi 28" barrel that can only hold 3 shots, a fabarm pump that holds 6 shots 26" barrel, a bolt action bruno .22 mag holds 5 ans a styer .243 that holds 4 shots. would i be correct in saying that i will have to get rid of the pump to get away with installing an alarm ??

At the moment you've got four firearms. That puts you into the category of needing a safe, an alarm (not the expensive monitored one), and locks on the external doors that comply with the published standard.

You could get rid of any of those firearms to leave you with three and then you'd only need the safe - As I understand the situation.

CZ.

so if you have a semi auto shotgun that can hold 5 but is pluged for 3 is that unrestricted

Grizzly 45

And it hasnt got an Evilll folding,detachable or telescoping stock or pistol grip.Which we all know make shotguns all the deadlier according to the Hollywood school of firearms training for politicans and police.:rolleyes::rolleyes:.
It is un restricted

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And it hasnt got an Evilll folding,detachable or telescoping stock or pistol grip.Which we all know make shotguns all the deadlier according to the Hollywood school of firearms training for politicans and police.:rolleyes::rolleyes:.
It is un restricted

if you got a hogue pistol grip for say a mossberg or remi pump and commited the sacrilege of screwing it onto a holland and holland royal or best purdey, would the resultant mess be restricted ?

johngalway

CZ. wrote: »

so if you have a semi auto shotgun that can hold 5 but is pluged for 3 is that unrestricted

Well, I asked the question about my Baikal MP-153, that if I disassembled the magazine and plugged it so as to only accept 2+1 then common wisdom based on reading the restricted list blurb seemed to say it would fall into the un restricted list as it had been modified to accept three or less cartridges in total.

Whether it'll work out that way or not But that's how I'm proceeding with my shottie, unless something comes out in Garda guidelines telling us otherwise.

pm.

will this be the alarm of choice ?? http://cgi.ebay.ie/WIRELESS-SECURITY-HOME-HOUSE-BURGLAR-ALARM-AUTODIAL_W0QQitemZ230359361614QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item35a27ce84e&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262 will it pass the requirements ?

fat-tony

If you're talking about level 3 of the secure accomodation requirements, any house alarm will do.

Monitored alarms (level 4) have to be installed by a PSA registered contractor and monitored accordingly - no self installed stuff. Insurance companies won't give you a discount on your home/theft insurance in any case unless you have an alarm installed and maintained by a registered contractor.

rowa

johngalway wrote: »

Well, I asked the question about my Baikal MP-153, that if I disassembled the magazine and plugged it so as to only accept 2+1 then common wisdom based on reading the restricted list blurb seemed to say it would fall into the un restricted list as it had been modified to accept three or less cartridges in total.

Whether it'll work out that way or not But that's how I'm proceeding with my shottie, unless something comes out in Garda guidelines telling us otherwise.

it'll probabily be the same system here as in england ,that the magazine tube has to be crimped or welded to only allow the loading of 2 cartridges .
on the topic of monitored alarms , the gardai have already admitted that they cannot guarantee to answer an alarm call in less than an hour , at which point your firearms and other personal belongings could be a hundred miles away , an alarm is just a noise box that most people don't seem to take much notice of anymore , i'd rather get a better safe or even two safes and dismantle the guns between the two of them ,that way the thief would have to open the two of them to get the firearms . that would take far longer and be more practical.

foxshooter243

rowa wrote: »

it'll probabily be the same system here as in england ,that the magazine tube has to be crimped or welded to only allow the loading of 2 cartridges .
on the topic of monitored alarms , the gardai have already admitted that they cannot guarantee to answer an alarm call in less than an hour , at which point your firearms and other personal belongings could be a hundred miles away , an alarm is just a noise box that most people don't seem to take much notice of anymore , i'd rather get a better safe or even two safes and dismantle the guns between the two of them ,that way the thief would have to open the two of them to get the firearms . that would take far longer and be more practical.

Excellent point !..Ive just spent two days setting up my gunsafe so that it would take a JCB to get it out-I now have more faith that it would take a thief too much time and effort to try to get it out or opened than run the risk of being caught:)

rowa

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Excellent point !..Ive just spent two days setting up my gunsafe so that it would take a JCB to get it out-I now have more faith that it would take a thief too much time and effort to try to get it out or opened than run the risk of being caught:)

do you happen to have a little mig or stick welder in the shed foxshooter ?
i ask because what i did was to get 2 short lengths of chain that would just reach across the width of the inside of the safe , i welded them to the sides of the safe at a level that they would go through the trigger guards of the guns and thats what i do , i put the rifles in ,bolts out for another safe, and pass the chain throught the trigger guards and put a pad lock on them. total cost about 20 euro and another bit of security .
also available cheap now is these little cctv cameras that could be mounted (hidden) close to the safe and set up to record by pir , nearly anything is better than an alarm.

foxshooter243

rowa wrote: »

do you happen to have a little mig or stick welder in the shed foxshooter ?
i ask because what i did was to get 2 short lengths of chain that would just reach across the width of the inside of the safe , i welded them to the sides of the safe at a level that they would go through the trigger guards of the guns and thats what i do , i put the rifles in ,bolts out for another safe, and pass the chain throught the trigger guards and put a pad lock on them. total cost about 20 euro and another bit of security .
also available cheap now is these little cctv cameras that could be mounted (hidden) close to the safe and set up to record by pir , nearly anything is better than an alarm.

Ive access to a mig welder so ill add the chain- good idea!-ive got my teeth into tightening up security now so any suggestions are welcome:)-Ta

ayapatrick

what about safe keys? do ye keep in the house or carry? its hard to know what to do with them?

rrpc

ayapatrick wrote: »

what about safe keys? do ye keep in the house or carry? its hard to know what to do with them?

Always carry.

Never leave them in the house.

paddy2008

My father has one of these winchester modle 1897 pump trench/riot gun with a 20" barrel:eek:

RichieRich

hey guys, what is a restricted firearm?

i have a shotgun, a magnum and am about to get a .243
i have a 5 gun 'buffalo river' safe bolted to a wall, i have an alarm on my house which is non monitored, am i covered or will i have to sell my 'rabbit buster' (magnum)??

Grizzly 45

paddy2008 wrote: »

My father has one of these winchester modle 1897 pump trench/riot gun with a 20" barrel:eek:

And if he ever wants to sell it,if it is a genuine Winchester,not a Norinco copy,please let me know.:)

It says BTW adapted,modified,or manufactured to three shots.Does NOT say anything about it needing to be done by a gunsmith,or how.
So stick a hunk of dowel in it and you are okay.

It wasn't me!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And if he ever wants to sell it,if it is a genuine Winchester,not a Norinco copy,please let me know.:)

It says BTW adapted,modified,or manufactured to three shots.Does NOT say anything about it needing to be done by a gunsmith,or how.
So stick a hunk of dowel in it and you are okay.

Aparrt from the barrel length of course.

Grizzly 45

Apprently the genuine 1897 Winchesters were/are specifically exempt from that ruling.There is somwhere a specific paragraph on this,in our "picemeal legislation".[On that I do agree with the Rt Hon judge Charlton].And they are not a very common item anyway.
They will be restricted due to barrel length.

Mr Flibble

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apprently the genuine 1894 Winchesters were/are specifically exempt from that ruling.There is somwhere a specific paragraph on this,in our "picemeal legislation".[On that I do agree with the Rt Hon judge Charlton].And they are not a very common item anyway.
They will be restricted due to barrel length.

1894 or 1897?

paddy2008

Mr Flibble wrote: »

1894 or 1897?

Its 1897 winchester trench/riot gun. This one is a hand me down from the RIC Police force before the Garda

foxshooter243

paddy2008 wrote: »

Its 1897 winchester trench/riot gun. This one is a hand me down from the RIC Police force before the Garda

I was handling one of these last week, the RIC ones have RIC stamped on the butt.

rowa

so is the list at the start of this thread the only pistols that can be unrestricted and is it official ?

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

so is the list at the start of this thread the only pistols that can be unrestricted and is it official ?

Not yet. SI isn't published AFAIK.

Wouldn't be surprised if there are changes, otherwise what was the point in leaking it?

rowa

rrpc wrote: »

Not yet. SI isn't published AFAIK.

Wouldn't be surprised if there are changes, otherwise what was the point in leaking it?

its a bit stupid of the doj though rrpc seeing as i don't know if my ruger mk 3 is restricted or not , what do i put down on the reapplication forms for instance ? and the guard standing behind the counter in the station sure as hell won't know .

ormondprop

"(d) silencers capable of being used only with long rifled rim-fire firearms;"

does this mean you don't need a permit for a rimfire moderator?

fat-tony

ormondprop wrote: »

"(d) silencers capable of being used only with long rifled rim-fire firearms;"

does this mean you don't need a permit for a rimfire moderator?

No - you still need an authorisation for a moderator. It's just that the current SI does not place rimfire moderators in the restricted category (although centre-fire moderators are restricted, whereas the firearm might not be). There has been some debate as to whether the new SI will remove this anomaly:)

friedcircuits

hey is a cz .22lr restricted?

Sparks

What kind of CZ friedcircuits?
(Though for most of them, the answer is no).

friedcircuits

hey its cz zkm 452 m 2e .22lr chromed (sorry thats whats printed on the deposit note!) also they issued me with an old cert what do i do? thanks

Sparks

No, that's not restricted.
I'm not sure what's going on with that cert of yours though
Calling up the FPU would be a good idea - but if you've been issued with a cert already, it's hard to see how you'd be refused!

friedcircuits

thanks whats the FPU?

Sparks

The Firearms Policy Unit. Their phone number's on the firearms cert application form.

friedcircuits

Thanks for the help! One last question is that FPU number a Dublin number and a FO answers?

fat-tony

I'm responding to the poster on another thread, suggesting he verifies with his local station that he's ok to proceed with the rifle purchase. I reckon it's just creative use of the old licensing system in the hiatus we're in at the moment and providing a good customer service;)
If the FPU get involved it might lead to a drawn-out process where the OP doesn't get a licence for months.

BornToKill

The way I see this he has a licence already so he's all approved and all that. Maybe the easiest thing to do is for the longest extension (end June 2010) to be issued to him and then to come into the new system at that point. The only concern now would be that he gets totally left out of the new system because he's not got an official cert. There is also the point that one year certs no longer exist in law but who would prosecute? If it was me I'd rather get get it straightened out though.