Ancient history, anyone a fan?

Pride Fighter

I prefer the older stuff to the more modern stuff. Particularly ancient Greece and Rome. I also dabble in ancient Egyptian history but I am far more knowledgeable in the Classics. 5th Century Athens, Hellenistic History and Imperial Rome are particular interests for me.

McArmalite

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I prefer the older stuff to the more modern stuff. Particularly ancient Greece and Rome. I also dabble in ancient Egyptian history but I am far more knowledgeable in the Classics. 5th Century Athens, Hellenistic History and Imperial Rome are particular interests for me.

It's not bad. I probably would be more interested in the later stuff, medieval times on, but their are a few here who seem to like the above. Does ancient Irish history do anything for you ? The Fianna, customs and religious practices, Celtic Art etc ?

Amtmann

One of my friends is doing his PhD on the warlordism of the barbarian tribes and how this affected the collapse of the empire in the west. He is very interested in the Great Migrations.
It is incredibly frustrating for the researcher sometimes, the dearth of sources. Often only fragments remain. Social and popular histories of the period are very difficult to write. One of the great struggles for all historians of the pre-industrial world is to get to grips with the alien mentalities of the people. There's a lot of evidence that human behaviour - such as how people experienced emotion - has changed enormously over time. During my period it is clear that nationalities were in the process of forming (helped in no small measure by printing, vernacularisation, centralisation and confessionalisation). Nothing like that seems to have existed in ancient times. I would say that the Greeks and Romans weren't even European, as 'Europe', as a concept, evolved later - arguably during the time of Charlamagne. I suppose they were European to the extent that the historical Jesus was a Christian.

McArmalite

Furet wrote: »

One of the great struggles for all historians of the pre-industrial world is to get to grips with the alien mentalities of the people. There's a lot of evidence that human behaviour - such as how people experienced emotion - has changed enormously over time.

Yes, interesting. Their was a programme on Channell 4 called 1066: The Battle for Middle Earth. It was about the Norman invasion and how people in England preceived themselves and the earth/life etc. For example many of them had never met a person from overseas, the furtherest they had ever travelled was probably to a village or town 30/40 miles away. So they couldn't have any understanding what the Normans were like and the impact and barabrity they were going to have. At best they could only imagine them as a different tribe or something. In fact it was quite sad observing the innocence and nievity of the people.

I suppose in more recent times the more humane have recorded the feelings and perceptions among the Indians of America, tribesmen in Africa, Australia, Amazon etc

Amtmann

McArmalite wrote: »

I suppose in more recent times the more humane have recorded the feelings and perceptions among the Indians of America, tribesmen in Africa, Australia, Amazon etc

Yes, and these insights are very important for social historians of pre-industrial and ancient Europe. Historians now borrow the insights that sociology, folklore and anthropology have to offer to create new sub-fields such as historical sociology and historical anthropology. These theoretical models are then corroborated (or refuted!) by an oblique reading of mediated primary sources such as sermons aimed at the masses, popular songs, paintings, interrogation records, folk beliefs and accounts of rebellions.
But again, unfortunately we have limited sources for Ancient Greece, though more from Rome. Egypt I don't really know anything about. If you are interested to see one example of historical sociology and anthropology in action to recreate one corner of the ancient world though, then John Dominic Crossan's "The Historical Jesus" is a pretty good place to start. Crossan is a 'higher critic' of the Bible. In other words, he treats the Bible as a historical source and dates the Gospels, the Epistles and the Acts and then tries to historicise them. "The Historical Jesus" has received slightly bad reviews for some of its chapters, but other chapters have been acclaimed. His chapter on the Jewish peasantry in Roman Judea is quite good.

Pride Fighter

McArmalite wrote: »

It's not bad. I probably would be more interested in the later stuff, medieval times on, but their are a few here who seem to like the above. Does ancient Irish history do anything for you ? The Fianna, customs and religious practices, Celtic Art etc ?

I am not very knowledgeable in Ancient Irish history unfortunately. It is not an area I dislike, in fact I would be interested in it. I have just never found a suitable introduction book on the subject that is a reasonable price for someone poor like me:)

Pride Fighter

Furet wrote: »

Yes, and these insights are very important for social historians of pre-industrial and ancient Europe. Historians now borrow the insights that sociology, folklore and anthropology have to offer to create new sub-fields such as historical sociology and historical anthropology. These theoretical models are then corroborated (or refuted!) by an oblique reading of mediated primary sources such as sermons aimed at the masses, popular songs, paintings, interrogation records, folk beliefs and accounts of rebellions.
But again, unfortunately we have limited sources for Ancient Greece, though more from Rome. Egypt I don't really know anything about. If you are interested to see one example of historical sociology and anthropology in action to recreate one corner of the ancient world though, then John Dominic Crossan's "The Historical Jesus" is a pretty good place to start. Crossan is a 'higher critic' of the Bible. In other words, he treats the Bible as a historical source and dates the Gospels, the Epistles and the Acts and then tries to historicise them. "The Historical Jesus" has received slightly bad reviews for some of its chapters, but other chapters have been acclaimed. His chapter on the Jewish peasantry in Roman Judea is quite good.

I suppose modern classical historians extrapolate sociological and anthropological data from archaeology and ancient literature. There is more ancient literature than you think, but a lot of what there was has not survived. For example, the Homeric epics were written in the 8th century B.C. The description of warfare in it does not match the probable period of the Trojan war (12th century B.C). It does match the period in which Homer lived. Through the Iliad and Odyssey and surviving archaeological finds we know quite a bit about warfare in the 7th-8th century B.C.

MarchDub

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I am not very knowledgeable in Ancient Irish history unfortunately. It is not an area I dislike, in fact I would be interested in it. I have just never found a suitable introduction book on the subject that is a reasonable price for someone poor like me:)

You might be interested in "In Search of Ancient Ireland". It went out on RTE about 6 or so years ago. It was a joint funding with PBS. It features the history of Ireland from Neolithic to the Anglo-Norman invasion.

Here is the Amazon link to the DVD and the book to the series. There are interviews with Irish archeologists like John Waddell and Barry Raftery and Irish medieval historians.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Ancient-Ireland-Origins-Neolithic/dp/156663525X/ref=ed_oe_p

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Ancient-Ireland-Over/dp/B00078XGRY/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Pride Fighter

MarchDub wrote: »

You might be interested in "In Search of Ancient Ireland". It went out on RTE about 6 or so years ago. It was a joint funding with PBS. It features the history of Ireland from Neolithic to the Anglo-Norman invasion.

Here is the Amazon link to the DVD and the book to the series. There are interviews with Irish archeologists like John Waddell and Barry Raftery and Irish medieval historians.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Ancient-Ireland-Origins-Neolithic/dp/156663525X/ref=ed_oe_p

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Ancient-Ireland-Over/dp/B00078XGRY/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

I seen that show. Was brilliantly done. But after watching it I'd hardly call myslef an expert.

MarchDub

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I seen that show. Was brilliantly done. But after watching it I'd hardly call myslef an expert.

Well, yeah - you wouldn't call yourself an expert on anything after just one book or one TV series. But a good starting place will give you good leads and give you sound ideas on where to go next.

valen

Check out Fergus Kelly's "Early Irish Law", "Early Irish Farming" - wonderful introductions to Ireland 1500 years ago.

"Early Irish Satire" is also kinda hilarious, but rather peculiar. Mary Valente's recent "Vikings in Ireland" is also a great introduction to a clash of cultures; the insular Irish & the cosmopolitan Vikings.

There is something...raw about Early history that makes it so appealing.

john

bigeasyeah

Yep Im a fan.Some of the empires that were in existance before the expansion of Greek colonies are barely mentioned today.
What fascinates me is the very early stages of civilisations or peoples.