Antivenom Treatments

wayhey

Just out of complete curiosity... does the HSE actually have antivenoms and stuff in their hospitals in case someone gets bitten by a venomous spider or snake? I'd be kind of amazed...

Hellrazer

I wouldnt imagine the HSE have but Id say some of the Venomous snake keepers might keep stocks of it.

It is a requirement of the DWA licence in the UK to hold stocks of antivenom on the same premises as the animal as far as I know.

There is no licence requirement in the Republic to keep venomous animals.

wayhey

So are cases admitted to hospitals in the Republic extremely rare then?

Hellrazer

wayhey wrote: »

So are cases admitted to hospitals in the Republic extremely rare then?

Id imagine so--Ive never heard of one in all the years Ive kept snakes.There is a venomous section over on the reptile-commuity forums but you have to register to view it.

drzhivago

wayhey wrote: »

Just out of complete curiosity... does the HSE actually have antivenoms and stuff in their hospitals in case someone gets bitten by a venomous spider or snake? I'd be kind of amazed...

worked in hospitals for 16 years
never heard of the antivenom
never saw a reason for its use
Poisonous snakes extremely rare
Spiders even more so

Hellrazer

drzhivago wrote: »

worked in hospitals for 16 years
never heard of the antivenom
never saw a reason for its use
Poisonous snakes extremely rare
Spiders even more so

What concerns me is that there are people out there that keep these animals.While most of them are experienced keepers its my opinion that there are a few keeping the like of cobras as a "designer pet" with no thought of the consequences of a bite.

My worst bite was from a pinktoe tarantula(thankfully classed as harmless) but it hurt like hell and my hand swelled up for 3-4 hours.I still have 2 marks on my hand from the bite.The point?
That bite was from a supposedly "docile" species yet there are people that keep "funnel web spiders" whose bite can kill and are known to "chase down" humans when disturbed and also bite repeatedly instead of one bite and then back off.

wayhey

Hellrazer wrote: »

What concerns me is that there are people out there that keep these animals.While most of them are experienced keepers its my opinion that there are a few keeping the like of cobras as a "designer pet" with no thought of the consequences of a bite.

My worst bite was from a pinktoe tarantula(thankfully classed as harmless) but it hurt like hell and my hand swelled up for 3-4 hours.I still have 2 marks on my hand from the bite.The point?
That bite was from a supposedly "docile" species yet there are people that keep "funnel web spiders" whose bite can kill and are known to "chase down" humans when disturbed and also bite repeatedly instead of one bite and then back off.

Jesus Christ!!! Thanks for that, as if spiders aren't bad enough instead of going all Terminator on ye... I'm never going to Australia :pac:

So what would be the procedure if I was bitten by a random yoke on the run? Even if I could ID it would it be fatal? (Cos I'm guessing it'd be awesome if you didn't know what it was)

Hellrazer

wayhey wrote: »

So what would be the procedure if I was bitten by a random yoke on the run? Even if I could ID it would it be fatal? (Cos I'm guessing it'd be awesome if you didn't know what it was)

Depends on where you were--youre hardly going to get killed by anything over here.

wayhey

Hellrazer wrote: »

Depends on where you were--youre hardly going to get killed by anything over here.

Oh I know the odds are like a million to one but hypothetically speaking... what would they do?

Hellrazer

wayhey wrote: »

Oh I know the odds are like a million to one but hypothetically speaking... what would they do?

Well to be honest Id think one of the medics here might be better qualified to answer that.

There are ways to relieve the symptoms of bites that dont involve antivenom so maybe something like that until a source of antivenom could be found.There are whats called "universal" antivenoms(for when the species is unknown) which are more like a shotgun blast to the venom rather than a targeted approach for when the species is 100% identified.

Personally I wouldnt like to take my chances with a bite from a known venomous animal over here though.

drzhivago

Hellrazer wrote: »

What concerns me is that there are people out there that keep these animals.While most of them are experienced keepers its my opinion that there are a few keeping the like of cobras as a "designer pet" with no thought of the consequences of a bite.

My worst bite was from a pinktoe tarantula(thankfully classed as harmless) but it hurt like hell and my hand swelled up for 3-4 hours.I still have 2 marks on my hand from the bite.The point?
That bite was from a supposedly "docile" species yet there are people that keep "funnel web spiders" whose bite can kill and are known to "chase down" humans when disturbed and also bite repeatedly instead of one bite and then back off.

MAybe they do keep them but at leats they know what they are and could tell you

I have worked in Cas here for years on and off and never heard of a snake bite or poisonous spider so common things being common I doubt the hospitals will have any stocks of anti-venom and would just be consulting with NAtional Poisons Information centre which is at Beaumont Hospital

Nothingcompares

Hellrazer - do you own one of the big pet shops in ireland? Like I still don't think there are many people that own poisonous animals. While I understand there may be thousands that own spiders or snakes I didn't think any were signficiantly dangerous. Also aren't a lot of snakes etc. sold as pets had their fangs removed or some other sort of interference?

I would still presume dog bites (and possibly scratches/bites from cats) account for the highest number of a&e admittances rather than bites/stings/ from exotic animals or wild animals.

Having said that, some people have been hospitalised due to wasp/bee stings due to allergy but still, relatively uncommon.

I assume.

Hellrazer

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Hellrazer - do you own one of the big pet shops in ireland? Like I still don't think there are many people that own poisonous animals. While I understand there may be thousands that own spiders or snakes I didn't think any were signficiantly dangerous. Also aren't a lot of snakes etc. sold as pets had their fangs removed or some other sort of interference?

I would still presume dog bites (and possibly scratches/bites from cats) account for the highest number of a&e admittances rather than bites/stings/ from exotic animals or wild animals.

Having said that, some people have been hospitalised due to wasp/bee stings due to allergy but still, relatively uncommon.

I assume.

No I dont own a petshop but I did do a lot of research into exotics when I started keeping them including investigating their venom and reactions to the venom.

There probably arent that many that own poisonous animals but in my opinion the numbers are growing.Its no longer "cool" to keep a corn snake or a python but you have to have the next big thing(venomous)

As for whether snakes have their fangs removed--Thats a total myth.If a snake had its fangs removed it couldnt eat.As I said in an earlier post the one bite I took was quite painful and caused a mild reaction.But Id imagine someone with an allergy could find themselves in a serious condition.

Also Id say youre correct in that the majority of A+E cases are from cats,dogs wasps and bees.

Nothingcompares

But you can remove the venom glands or something in snakes yeah? Surely the whole devenomising thing isn't an entire myth?

Hellrazer

Nothingcompares wrote: »

But you can remove the venom glands or something in snakes yeah? Surely the whole devenomising thing isn't an entire myth?

The procedure to remove the venom glands or fangs usually kills the snake within weeks so for the purposes of keeping a dangerous snake as a "pet" its not practical.

It can be done but is quite expensive.The gland and duct feeding the fangs are removed and replaced with surical silicone.The main reason is for educational shows.

Nolanger

Apparently there are still no antivenom in Irish hospitals. So what happens if you're bitten by a poisonous snake in this country?

Hellrazer

Nolanger wrote: »

Apparently there are still no antivenom in Irish hospitals. So what happens if you're bitten by a poisonous snake in this country?

The North and UK has stocks of Anti-venom mainly because they actually have a Dangerous Wild Animal legislation.

Venomous species have to be notified to the authorities who may stock anti venom but generally the onus is on the licence holder to hold the anti-venom.

Nolanger

So if someone in Ireland owns a pet poisonous snake, it escapes, and then bites you, head to the UK ASAP for the antivenom? Surely you'd be dead by the time you're on the plane?

Hellrazer

Nolanger wrote: »

So if someone in Ireland owns a pet poisonous snake, it escapes, and then bites you, head to the UK ASAP for the antivenom? Surely you'd be dead by the time you're on the plane?

Thats quite possible.Its one of the reasons why Ireland needs Dangerous Wild Animal legislation.

Although in saying that not one person in the UK has died from a venomous bite ever.

Nolanger

Luke Yeomans died 6 months ago in Britain from a pet cobra bite.

Hellrazer

Nolanger wrote: »

Luke Yeomans died 6 months ago in Britain from a pet cobra bite.

That wasnt a pet--He ran a snake sanctuary and the snake was probably one he wasnt used to handling.And he pushed it a bit with his "displays" with Cobras etc.

If you handle venoms with bare hands some say you deserve to get bitten.