Attending a wedding of a different faith?

Fugly

Hi, I was looking for a little help, there's a friend of the family's (catholic) wedding coming up. We as a family were invited, and asked to tell how many would be attending. My brother is currently dating a Muslim girl, and I enquired would she be attending. She got very offended. She stated that she would never enter a church and how could I suggest a thing. I apologised profusely, I didn't mean any offense.

I'm confused, it's just I know that people of other faiths (Jewish/Buddist) who will be attending the ceremony. I was really embarassed, and I would have understood if she didn't feel comfortable attending, I'm just afraid I completely offended her faith, I try to ensure that I don't offend her, I just wasn't aware that this was so offensive in her faith. Is this true of all muslims, or very widespread?

Thanks,

irishconvert

She is being very silly. There is nothing wrong with a Muslim attending a Catholic wedding as long as they do not partake in the ceremony (i.e. say any of the prayers, take holy communion, etc). To be honest she is being rude in turning down the invite. I can understand if she does not want to go to the reception with all the alcohol and behaviour that goes along with it but there is nothing stopping her from going to the church.

Have a read of the following link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545248

imported_guy

Fugly wrote: »

she would never enter a church

shes dating a chatholic, but would never enter a church? what a hypocrite

and theres nothing wrong with entering a church/attending different faith weddings, ive been to loads of hindu weddings and so have my parents etc etc

Fugly

Thank you! I was very confused as I've attended weddings of different faiths, I don't know any wedding recently where it's been fully one faith as guests. And alot of guests would attend but not partake.

Yes, she's quite liberal as well so I really wasn't expecting it, she co-habits with my brother, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't go to Mosque or pray.
Thanks again,

ChocolateSauce

Fugly wrote: »

Hi, I was looking for a little help, there's a friend of the family's (catholic) wedding coming up. We as a family were invited, and asked to tell how many would be attending. My brother is currently dating a Muslim girl, and I enquired would she be attending. She got very offended. She stated that she would never enter a church and how could I suggest a thing. I apologised profusely, I didn't mean any offense.

I'm confused, it's just I know that people of other faiths (Jewish/Buddist) who will be attending the ceremony. I was really embarassed, and I would have understood if she didn't feel comfortable attending, I'm just afraid I completely offended her faith, I try to ensure that I don't offend her, I just wasn't aware that this was so offensive in her faith. Is this true of all muslims, or very widespread?

Thanks,

Sounds like you apologised to an intolerant fanatic for the crime of being polite to her. She should have just informed you that her faith required her not to attend.

irishconvert

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Sounds like you apologised to an intolerant fanatic for the crime of being polite to her. She should have just informed you that her faith required her not to attend.

I have already clarified that Islamic teaching does NOT stop her from attending.

ChocolateSauce

irishconvert wrote: »

I have already clarified that Islamic teaching does NOT stop her from attending.

Sorry about that, I only read and replied to the OP.

In that case I'll revise my statement:

"Sounds like you apologised to an intolerant fanatic for the crime of being polite to her. She should have just informed you that she didn't want to be dirtied by a heretic's wedding.

Sonic_exyouth

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Sorry about that, I only read and replied to the OP.

In that case I'll revise my statement:

"Sounds like you apologised to an intolerant fanatic for the crime of being polite to her. She should have just informed you that she didn't want to be dirtied by a heretic's wedding.

Intolerant fanatic..

A Muslimah who dates.
A Muslimah who defies the hadith, multiple fatwas, the muwatta etc and shacks up with an ahl al kitab christian male?

Hardly a fanatic.

Not wanting to be in a place full of iconography to a Muslim Prophet and Maryam, The mother of the prophet Jesus, while people in her presence drink wine may be a factor, and she's entitled to it.

ChocolateSauce

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Intolerant fanatic..

A Muslimah who dates.
A Muslimah who defies the hadith, multiple fatwas, the muwatta etc and shacks up with an ahl al kitab christian male?

Hardly a fanatic.

Not wanting to be in a place full of iconography to a Muslim Prophet and Maryam, The mother of the prophet Jesus, while people in her presence drink wine may be a factor, and she's entitled to it.

Okay, a fanatic who is confused. If you're trying to get me say this woman isn't, you'll fail. She got offended by the mere suggestion that she might enter a church, and refused essentially because she is utterly convinced that her religion is singularly truthful and that being around the inner workings of another religion is anathema to her god. Fanatic. Maybe not a dangerous or militant one, but a fanatic none the less.

imported_guy

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Okay, a fanatic who is confused. If you're trying to get me say this woman isn't, you'll fail. She got offended by the mere suggestion that she might enter a church, and refused essentially because she is utterly convinced that her religion is singularly truthful and that being around the inner workings of another religion is anathema to her god. Fanatic. Maybe not a dangerous or militant one, but a fanatic none the less.

oh god, shes dating a christian, shes hardly a muslim, how can you call her a fanatic?

if i put down muslim on my passport, endorse osama bin laden, but go out to the pub with my buddies every night, it doesnt make me a fanatic.

Iwasfrozen

imported_guy wrote: »

oh god, shes dating a christian, shes hardly a muslim, how can you call her a fanatic?

if i put down muslim on my passport, endorse osama bin laden, but go out to the pub with my buddies every night, it doesnt make me a fanatic.

Em... Yes it does.

jonsnow

It used to be a la carte catholics now we,ve got make it up (as you go ) muslims!!.

Sex outside of marriage ok
relationship with non-muslim ok
non-attendance of mosque and non-observance of prayers ok.
But being asked to attend a wedding and set foot in a catholic church which is not against the islamic strictures is grounds to be insulted!!!

I wonder is this girl just pulling the OPs leg or making up an excuse because she doesn,t want to go!

Iwasfrozen

jonsnow wrote: »

It used to be a la carte catholics now we,ve got make it up (as you go ) muslims!!.

Sex outside of marriage ok
relationship with non-muslim ok
non-attendance of mosque and non-observance of prayers ok.
But being asked to attend a wedding and set foot in a catholic church which is not against the islamic strictures is grounds to be insulted!!!

I wonder is this girl just pulling the OPs leg or making up an excuse because she doesn,t want to go!

Replace Muslim with Catholic and Mosque with Church and that was the same for Catholics 50 years ago.

jonsnow

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Replace Muslim with Catholic and Mosque with Church and that was the same for Catholics 50 years ago.

Yep.However this girl lives in the 21st century and is clearly capable of adopting 21st century western societal practices when it suits her.

imported_guy

jonsnow wrote: »

It used to be a la carte catholics now we,ve got make it up (as you go ) muslims!!.

Sex outside of marriage ok
relationship with non-muslim ok
non-attendance of mosque and non-observance of prayers ok.
But being asked to attend a wedding and set foot in a catholic church which is not against the islamic strictures is grounds to be insulted!!!

I wonder is this girl just pulling the OPs leg or making up an excuse because she doesn,t want to go!

this is where i was getting at, she is by no means a fanatic, try hassan nassrallah or imam kohmeni

jonsnow

imported_guy wrote: »

this is where i was getting at, she is by no means a fanatic, try hassan nassrallah or imam kohmeni

I,m not saying shes a fanatic.I,m saying shes a hypocrite.She has no problem flouting certain religous rules but gets stroppy and conservative about others.Typical a la carte muslim.

Sonic_exyouth

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Okay, a fanatic who is confused. If you're trying to get me say this woman isn't, you'll fail. She got offended by the mere suggestion that she might enter a church, and refused essentially because she is utterly convinced that her religion is singularly truthful and that being around the inner workings of another religion is anathema to her god. Fanatic. Maybe not a dangerous or militant one, but a fanatic none the less.

Not being around "another religion" - its being around iconography of religious figures she reveres. Principally Jesus and his ma.

There is an overwhelming disapproval on visual depictions of Prophets in Islam, and while Muslims are happy enough for non-muslims to make idols and images of religious characters they share, many would feel remarkably uncomfortable in their presence.

Further to that, there is the drinking of wine. There are 10 "curses" (removal of angelic blessings in the islamic tradition) concerning alcohol in the hadiths, one of which is remaining in the presence of people drinking. Catholics believe that the wine literally turns into Jesus' blood, but it's unreasonable to expect Muslims to believe that.

It's not particularly fanatical to not wish to be a part of that.

Iwasfrozen

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

It's not particularly fanatical to not wish to be a part of that.

So it's ok for her to sleep with a Catholic but not go to his church ?
OP do you know if her boyfriend goes to her mousqe ?

philologos

It's really her decision if she wants to be in a church or not. However, the way that she responded to you wasn't the most respectful OP.

By the by, not attending the church doesn't mean that one cannot attend the reception. However, whether or not people should be around alcohol in Islam is another teaching.

Sonic exyouth wrote:

A Muslimah who defies the hadith, multiple fatwas, the muwatta etc and shacks up with an ahl al kitab christian male?

Can you clarify the last bit for me?

Sonic_exyouth

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So it's ok for her to sleep with a Catholic but not go to his church ?
OP do you know if her boyfriend goes to her mousqe ?

If she can justify that to herself... I don't care.

But calling her fanatical for not wishing to enter a Catholic Church is an abuse of the English language.

Sonic_exyouth

Jakkass wrote: »

It's really her decision if she wants to be in a church or not. However, the way that she responded to you wasn't the most respectful OP.

By the by, not attending the church doesn't mean that one cannot attend the reception. However, whether or not people should be around alcohol in Islam is another teaching.

"A Muslimah who defies the hadith, multiple fatwas, the muwatta etc and shacks up with an ahl al kitab christian male?"

Can you clarify the last bit for me?

Emm..
Muslimah = female Muslim
Hadith = Recorded oral tradition giving witness accounts of the sayings and actions of the Islamic Prophet, Muhammad.
Fatwa = A religious decision, usually made by an "Alim"
Muwatta = Book of Islamic law (Shariah) written down by "Imam of the Imams", the Imam Malik. The Study of Islamic law (called 'Fiqh') tend to follow 4 schools of thought (Maddhabs), the most popular of which being Hanafi, but all of which base thier differences on interperatations of the Muwatta.. kinda like the differing Mishnahs to the Talmud in the Jewish Halakah.. but only kind of.
an ahl al kitab christian male = Ahl al Kitab means "people of the book". It applies to any non-Muslim who still believes in God, thus differentiating them from the Kuffar, or non-believers. Only Muslims and ahl al kitab, in the Islamic tradition, have a chance of Heaven. The Non-believers will make the wrong decision on the Qiyamah, the Islamic conception of a judgement day (though before that they'll either be suffering in the grave or in Hell).

imported_guy

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Only Muslims and ahl al kitab, in the Islamic tradition, have a chance of Heaven. The Non-believers will make the wrong decision on the Qiyamah, the Islamic conception of a judgement day (though before that they'll either be suffering in the grave or in Hell).

just to clarify, its ONLY the "Pre Islamic Ahl al kitab" who have a chance in heaven, along with muslims, not the current jews/christians etc.

philologos

^^ What's so different between pre-Islamic Christians and Jews from modern Christians and Jews? Just curious.

ChocolateSauce

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Not being around "another religion" - its being around iconography of religious figures she reveres. Principally Jesus and his ma.

There is an overwhelming disapproval on visual depictions of Prophets in Islam, and while Muslims are happy enough for non-muslims to make idols and images of religious characters they share, many would feel remarkably uncomfortable in their presence.

Further to that, there is the drinking of wine. There are 10 "curses" (removal of angelic blessings in the islamic tradition) concerning alcohol in the hadiths, one of which is remaining in the presence of people drinking. Catholics believe that the wine literally turns into Jesus' blood, but it's unreasonable to expect Muslims to believe that.

It's not particularly fanatical to not wish to be a part of that.

You make some convincing points, as have others. I'll lower my criticism from "fanatic" to whatever is just below that...fundamentalist I guess. I'll add hypocrite for the going out with a non-Muslim thing, and rude b!tch for making the OP feel so bad when a simple explaination would have done. Some people just love finding things to be offended by.

In a way, I'd have more respect for a fanatic who sticks to their religion than this person, assuming the OP gave a fair description.

Sonic_exyouth

imported_guy wrote: »

just to clarify, its ONLY the "Pre Islamic Ahl al kitab" who have a chance in heaven, along with muslims, not the current jews/christians etc.

Well... Thats a matter of debate amongst the Ulema.

Tantawi, Gomaa, Qaradawi and Ramadan (though I doubt He is considered an Alim) are believe that the good-actioned moral theists are capable of attaining Jannah. Though within Jannah itself, the attainment of the higher levels, like Ajma, one must be willing to accept Muhammad as the rasul.

Thats in tantawis tafsir, based on the Ayat:
"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the of Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

Sonic_exyouth

Jakkass wrote: »

^^ What's so different between pre-Islamic Christians and Jews from modern Christians and Jews? Just curious.

The argument, and its not a universal one, is that post-islamic christians and jews can accept the quran and the example of Muhammad. By not accepting these things more modern christians, jews, hindus, etc, become disbelievers, kafir.

Sonic_exyouth

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

hypocrite for the going out with a non-Muslim thing, and rude b!tch .. Some people just love finding things to be offended by.

Yeah, I think thats fair. Super hypocrite, and just plain rude.

prinz

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

...while people in her presence drink wine may be a factor, and she's entitled to it.

Just on this one, quick question, but I have often been in the presence of Muslims, while others were drinking alcohol, and none has ever suggested a problem with it, this spans from Pakistanis, to second generation French muslims.

Sonic_exyouth

prinz wrote: »

Just on this one, quick question, but I have often been in the presence of Muslims, while others were drinking alcohol, and none has ever suggested a problem with it, this spans from Pakistanis, to second generation French muslims.

I've had a Gin and Tonic with a Muslim girl.
I've also not known a catholic girl to stay chaste til marraige.

That being said, folks can reconcile their religion any which way they want. I'm just pointing out that there are non-fanatical reasons for a Muslimah to want to avoid entering a church.

mickol

We had a senegalese lad working here with us who was a muslim or so he informed us...He said he didnt drink alcohol , eat pork or have sex outside of marriage......One evening after work I walked into Buskers in Temple Bar only to see this chap sitting on a stool 2 arms around 2 female work colleagues chatting them up , a basket of cocktail sausages and a pint of guinness in front of him........

Can you switch off the muslim lark anytime you want a few pints and a ride or something .....Theres way too much criticism of everything in this world ...although i was brought up as a catholic i am old enough to accept anybody as a good person if they show humanity to all. Getting back to original point this girl is just downright rude and you should let her know that you were offended by her response to your kind invitation ..but do it nicely of course

oceanclub

mickol wrote: »

We had a senegalese lad working here with us who was a muslim or so he informed us...He said he didnt drink alcohol , eat pork or have sex outside of marriage......One evening after work I walked into Buskers in Temple Bar only to see this chap sitting on a stool 2 arms around 2 female work colleagues chatting them up , a basket of cocktail sausages and a pint of guinness in front of him........

Maybe it started with a single sausage and then he reckoned "sure, I may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb".

P.