Not fully committing to God...

Dave!

Hey folks,

This is something that's kind of been playing on my mind lately, so I wonder if I could air it with you religious types and you tell me if I'm a bit off, so to speak. I've no intention of offending (for a change!), and come here with no hidden agenda


Anyways what I was wondering is, if people really do believe in God 100%, then how do they relegate him to such a minor part of their lives?

I may be inaccurate here, but from what I gather most people are fairly moderate when it comes to religion, and their main religious activities would be i. praying regularly, and ii. mass every Sunday. Even that's being generous IMO, and it would be more accurate to say i. praying when they need something, and ii. mass every so often, mainly special occassions.

What's playing on my mind is, how can someone who believes that the creator of the universe is able to see everything, is able to communicate with them, is able to do pretty much anything -- how can they not give him a more prominent role in their lives?

For me, if I believed that, it would preoccupy my mind quite alot ! :eek: How can the creator of the universe, the being that decides your fate after death -- ie. that you could live forever in heaven -- be given 1 day a week, and the odd prayer?


Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here (most of ye are probably more committed than your average Christian), but if I were a believer, then I suspect that I would be on the extreme end of the spectrum. How could you not be?! It's such a ridiculously important, monumental, huuuuuuuuge thing, that it would have to feature prominently in your life.

Perhaps I'm misreading the average person's commitment, but I don't think so.


Anyways the bottom line for me is that it just doesn't make sense to 'half-ass' do religion; if you believe even in a wishy washy nebulous 'being' that's looking over everyone (and not necessarily any particular denominational definition of god), then you would surely spend your life trying to get to know him.

Am I way off?

Go on, tear me apart !

Mr.Nice Guy

Dave! wrote:

For me, if I believed that, it would preoccupy my mind quite alot ! :eek: How can the creator of the universe, the being that decides your fate after death -- ie. that you could live forever in heaven -- be given 1 day a week, and the odd prayer?

That seems like quite a sweeping and damning assumption! Speaking as someone who believes in God but who it's fair to say hasn't gone to church anywhere near enough the last few years (:o) I'd certainly do more than the odd prayer and would likely pray pretty much every day. That, for me at least anyway, keeps a strong sense of spirituality in my life.

I guess I would make a distinction between being "religious" and being spiritual. For me the former is important, but the latter is even more significant.

Glenman

Mass every Sunday, confession once a month, daily rosary, chaplet of devine mercy daily and Lough Derg once a year...that does me. I thank God every morning for the graces he brings into my life and carry the crosses of life in reparation for the offenses commited against the immaculate Heart of Mary. There is no need to over-do it with the regilious thing. We just need to try an live our lives like Jesus did and put other peoples needs before ours.

Fanny Cradock

In certain regards your thread raises some important questions, but also makes some unwarranted assumptions.

Yes, I believe there is often a gulf between those who profess belief in God (I don't like this 100% figure that you have mentioned) but show little in the way of it in their lives. Perhaps I am one of these people! You can always give more of yourself.

Anyway, the people that you seem to be discussing sound more like a cultural Christian (lets steer away from using specific terms like Catholic and mass; to assume that Catholicism is Christianity is an oversimplification of Christianity - and that's not an insult to Catholics). When pushed they have a rather hazy belief in a God that probably has more in common with Deism than Christianity. I would think that if God doesn't feature heavily in your life (and I don't suppose there is any one proper outward expression of this belief) then I guess there are some serious questions to ask. There have always been people in all walks of life that have talked the talk but not walked the walk.

A couple of other smaller points.

In terms of who decides our fate, I would think that it is us who does that, not God. The options have been laid bare on the table, so to speak.

I don't subscribe to the notion that the bible teaches about eternity in heaven. It seems clear that the earliest Christians believed that new creation (new heavens and a new earth) is the ultimate promise of God, not this platonic influenced dualism - disembodied souls that float around on clouds and play harps forever and a day – that, I argue, is the mainstay of flawed theology. Why, such an existence seems terrifying!

PDN

OK, I'm posting as one of the more 'extreme' Christians (I prefer the word 'militant' ).

I think that faith colours all of your activities, not just those that we think of as 'religious'. In fact I find the whole secular/religious division to be artificial.

So, my faith in God is expressed in everyday activities, as well as by going to church, reading the Bible or praying. When I cut the grass I see myself as enjoying, and cooperating with, God's work of Creation. When I spend time playing Scrabble with my wife and daughter I see myself as following biblical injunctions about how a father and a husband should behave. When I meet up with a couple of the guys from church and go to watch a LoI soccer game I see that as Christian fellowship.

I do agree with the OP that a lot of religion, indeed a lot of Christianity, is purely cultural - people do their duty by going to church once a week or less and then live no differently. But the antidote to that is not to spend one's time in ceaseless 'religious' activities. Jesus said that He came that we might have life in all its fullness.

Fanny Cradock

Good website in your sig, Dave. I always wanted FF or Sky Sports to do a "name and shame" slot for domestic, European and international levels. Sort of like "goal of the month". Humm, maybe it would have the opposite effect.

Sorry, off topic.

homer911

If God was to give every committed christian a school report, they would probably all say the same thing - "Could do better!" - and I include myself in this category. None of us are perfect, far from it in fact, but with God's help, and a little humility and submission to God's will we will be better christians. No matter how "good" a christian we are, we will never be perfect, never 100%. A christian is someone who has recognised their own failings and their need of the free gift of forgiveness, accepts it and offers himself as "potters clay"

antiskeptic

Dave! wrote: »

Hey folks,

'Allo Dave..

Anyways what I was wondering is, if people really do believe in God 100%, then how do they relegate him to such a minor part of their lives?

Good question. I suppose the answer (assuming we're talking genuine, not cultural, believer) finds it's root in unbelief. That is to say, the degree of belief (or faith) will determine the extent to which God is placed forefront in one's life. That's because belief is to God-consciousness as fuel is to fire - when there is plenty of faith all that exists is a raging fire of God-consciousness & devotion and when there is little you might only have the faintest of embers glowing.

Why belief can find itself at varying levels in different people or at varying levels in the same person at different times is a larger subject.

I know plenty of folk for whom God plays anything but a minor part in their lives.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

. When I meet up with a couple of the guys from church and go to watch a LoI soccer game I see that as Christian fellowship.

I doubt if many Christian things come out of your mouth watching Drogheda UTD these days:pac::)

Phototoxin

I dont think their God is as egotistical as people would believe. I think life is for living and possibly thanking God/Allah/Bob the Goldfish/whatever for the gift of life and after you die you can say cheers but somewhat regular thanks is probably good too. Which is why I wonder about people like monks. Most monks I know are cool however in one way one wonders if it would be better if they did more to feed orphans or whatever (though most of them do charity stuff too!)

postcynical

JimiTime wrote: »

I doubt if many Christian things come out of your mouth watching Drogheda UTD these days:pac::)

Last night maybe:)

postcynical

Phototoxin wrote: »

I dont think their God is as egotistical as people would believe. I think life is for living and possibly thanking God/Allah/Bob the Goldfish/whatever for the gift of life and after you die you can say cheers but somewhat regular thanks is probably good too. Which is why I wonder about people like monks. Most monks I know are cool however in one way one wonders if it would be better if they did more to feed orphans or whatever (though most of them do charity stuff too!)

That's a common misconception of monks. Monks actively pray for the secular world. They are not cut off at all from the real world, which is something of a disappointment for those people who might wish to escape the real world. Like all Christians they are called to be witnesses in this life and to help build God's kingdom on Earth. I believe petitional prayer is just as powerful as action (although action can obviously be a form of prayer).

philologos

Dave! wrote: »

Anyways what I was wondering is, if people really do believe in God 100%, then how do they relegate him to such a minor part of their lives?

This is a good question. I would say that I don't commit myself as fully as I would like to to God, this isn't because I don't care about God, but rather because I am still getting to know God more and more through what I am reading about Him. I need to find how best I can serve Him in my daily life, and I need to get a firm grasp on Christian moral principles.

Dave! wrote: »

I may be inaccurate here, but from what I gather most people are fairly moderate when it comes to religion, and their main religious activities would be i. praying regularly, and ii. mass every Sunday. Even that's being generous IMO, and it would be more accurate to say i. praying when they need something, and ii. mass every so often, mainly special occassions.

It is between those people and God as to whether or not people are doing enough for God. There are parables in the Bible that involve using ones spiritual gifts wisely for the Kingdom of God. I hope I can determine what my gifts are so I can help to sow seeds amongst my friends, family and those others who I meet in my life so that they can come to know God. I don't feel that the internet can be used for evangelism effectively.

Dave! wrote: »

What's playing on my mind is, how can someone who believes that the creator of the universe is able to see everything, is able to communicate with them, is able to do pretty much anything -- how can they not give him a more prominent role in their lives?

I'm trying more and more to give God a more prominent role in my life. I think ultimately the best that people can do is ensure that God reflects through you, and that you leave the world a better place than when you entered it through Christian teachings.

Dave! wrote: »

For me, if I believed that, it would preoccupy my mind quite alot ! :eek: How can the creator of the universe, the being that decides your fate after death -- ie. that you could live forever in heaven -- be given 1 day a week, and the odd prayer?

My fate after death rarely motivates my faith. I would find that to be a rather selfish motivation. I want people to be able to experience God, and be able to live faithful lives, I seek to know more about God, and seek to do what is right before Him first and foremost. My fate in the afterlife isn't the most crucial. Whether or not my friends and family seek faith in God is something that would cause me to think however.

Dave! wrote: »

Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here (most of ye are probably more committed than your average Christian), but if I were a believer, then I suspect that I would be on the extreme end of the spectrum. How could you not be?! It's such a ridiculously important, monumental, huuuuuuuuge thing, that it would have to feature prominently in your life.

By featuring prominently in our lives, what do you mean?

Dave! wrote: »

Perhaps I'm misreading the average person's commitment, but I don't think so.

You could be right. It isn't my job to judge how other people are living out their faith.

Dave! wrote: »

Anyways the bottom line for me is that it just doesn't make sense to 'half-ass' do religion; if you believe even in a wishy washy nebulous 'being' that's looking over everyone (and not necessarily any particular denominational definition of god), then you would surely spend your life trying to get to know him.

I am trying my very best to get to know God. However, I have to recognise that I can only do just that, my very best.

Dave! wrote: »

Am I way off?

No

chozometroid

Dave! wrote: »

Anyways what I was wondering is, if people really do believe in God 100%, then how do they relegate him to such a minor part of their lives?

I may be inaccurate here, but from what I gather most people are fairly moderate when it comes to religion, and their main religious activities would be i. praying regularly, and ii. mass every Sunday. Even that's being generous IMO, and it would be more accurate to say i. praying when they need something, and ii. mass every so often, mainly special occassions.

I think your topic portrays the main struggle for every Christian. We are here to learn about God and develop a relationship with Him, but there are so many distractions. I think a lot of people just go about their daily lives and don't feel the need to include God. Perhaps some are a bit shy about being so expressive in their Christianity. Perhaps some feel disconnected as they don't see God as plain as day like everything else.
It also seems to me, that if you depend on yourself for things, and everything in your life is going fine, you tend to get caught up in this worldly life. People tend to forget about God when they feel they are in control and they don't need help. Once something happens, such as a disaster of some sort, then people realize they need help and turn to God again.

What's playing on my mind is, how can someone who believes that the creator of the universe is able to see everything, is able to communicate with them, is able to do pretty much anything -- how can they not give him a more prominent role in their lives?

For me, if I believed that, it would preoccupy my mind quite alot ! :eek: How can the creator of the universe, the being that decides your fate after death -- ie. that you could live forever in heaven -- be given 1 day a week, and the odd prayer?

I think this is dependant on the level of belief people have. Some believe, but not in a strong way. They need to be reminded that God is real, and that there is some serious business taking place in this life.

Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here (most of ye are probably more committed than your average Christian), but if I were a believer, then I suspect that I would be on the extreme end of the spectrum. How could you not be?! It's such a ridiculously important, monumental, huuuuuuuuge thing, that it would have to feature prominently in your life.

It is huge indeed. Not everyone has the level of faith required to make God #1 in their lives, though. Sometimes it's only once someone has been completely broken that they can take a look at life and realize why they need God. When God pulls them out of a mess, they can do nothing but fall to their knees and thank Him for being there for them.
Mankind has a problem in that their faith wavers. Something happens where God reminds them He is there with them, but then they tend to fade back into their wordly life, independant of God.

The main problem is the devil. He wants us to feel secure in our own selves. We know best, we know what is right, we do what we want. The devil is the prince of this world, and everything the world has to offer is a distraction from God. Because we live in this world, every day, we spend more time in the world than we do with God. So, only the most dedicated and faithful will show evidence that they are "different" and have a relationship with God. For most, the world is much more real than God is, and it has more to offer them.

I think a lot of what you see is just people who feel the need to "look" like a Christian, or perhaps Christians that just embrace the good ideas of Christianity, like being saved by Jesus, but feel no obligation to change their usual ways. It's only when they accept the whole of Christianity, realize what God expects of them, and live life as if God is walking beside them (and He is), that you will "see" their commitment you are looking for.