Looking for honest opinions on a story I am working on

Grievous

Hey All.

I am working on a short story at the moment, It could eventually develope into a full novel.

Just looking for somew honest constructive feedback. Even if you don't like it, Tell me why.

I am quite influenced by kurt vonnegut and jd salinger.

The idea is 100% mine and it could be about 15% autobiographical.

Thanks and Best wishes All.

The Boy in the Bubble

It is 1984, all the kids are hooked on the new TV shows transformers and mask, these benevolent autobots have funny names, the bad guys have even funnier names, the leader of the bad guys is the maniacal megatron, His name is quite slick though. They fight forever. The fight for good versus evil is a forever war. Megatron’s right hand man is named starstream, He is not a very nice decepticon, and he actually despises his leader megatron and hopes to usurp him someday. This is why the good guys will always win. Bad guys are always scheming and fighting amongst themselves. The good guys want to be better.

In 1984 I am living in a flat apartment block in Ballymun, These blocks are named after fallen rebel leaders. I am not old enough to watch any cartoons. Ballymun is a run down place, Unemployment and drug abuse are rampant, I don’t notice this then, I don’t notice anything, I hope my cot is comfy and snug.

It is 2002, I am doing my final exams in secondary school, The door is wide open so people can hear the match, the world cup is taken place, Ireland are doing well, I am the only one in the room who doesn’t’ care about the match, I don’t like football anymore. Too many people like football, the sameness is killing me, footballers are paid too much money, and we could eradicate poverty with their wages and then some. I don’t like footballers much either; they say the same things in their interviews after each match anyways. I do something crazy in the exams; I write a review for Spiderman 1 in one of the papers instead of answering the proper questions. It is not really a review. It is a rabid fan letter of approval. I write silly things like how awesome it was seeing Spiderman swinging through the concrete jungle that is New York City. I am not bothered by Spiderman’s organic webshooters. The one’s he used in the cartoon were kind of lame anyways.

It is 1998, I am falling over the banisters in secondary school, my heavy school bag is dragging me over, I knew getting a locker would have been better for me, I see lots of peoples faces as I go down, everything is a blur, my head hurts me but my back is saved by my school bag, the irony is not lost on anyone at the time, saved by the bag that dragged him over. Cute. My woodwork teacher is carrying me trough the hall, the hall is full of school kids, and it is lunchtime, why could this not have happened at any other time? I have one shoe on, my nose is full of blood, and this blood later hardens and bonds with my snots. Picking it out later is a chore; I think pieces of my nose are breaking off like the guy in that movie the fly. Everybody remembers me from that day; looking back it was quite funny. I still think somebody pushed me! I have no hard feelings. I had a great day at the hospital.

It is 1992, the snow is awesome, some guy on the block is making a huge snow ball, it is a wonder to behold, all the other kids are jealous, Kids make snow balls and put rocks in the middle so they can throw them at passing cars. I don’t see any of the snowballs hit cars. I wear 2 pairs of old socks on my hands for making snowballs; my hands are still cold and dirty. Everybody is happy in the snow; my mam comes home from my aunt’s house with some biscuits and sweets for us.

It is 1989 and my mother is giving me a bath, I have lots of cool toys in the bath, my favourite is soldiers, I love how they try to survive in the water with help from me, I put them on sponges and on the backs of my plastic rubber ducks, did all kids have the same rubber ducks? You know the yellow ones that came in different sizes and had a nice unforgettable smell that said made in china underneath? My mother scrubs my toes. This hurts me greatly, but they need to be cleaned. There are bits of paint flaking off the bathtub; it was a cool little curve of flailing paint. I used to pick it all the time.

The time bubble is 10 feet long, has transparent glass and has a single seat in the dead centre of the bubble. I don’t seem to need food or water inside the time bubble, I only suspect this is a time bubble because of the different era’s I am visiting, I don’t think I am moving through any tangible space at all, I have tried to reach out beyond the bubble to touch objects with no good results. Nobody can see me in the bubble. I am completely beyond the visible and physical spectrum. I have seen myself clearly in every time. I have tried to call to myself tons of times, I have tried to wave to get my own attention lots of times as well, No such luck so far. I will keep trying. Maybe something needs to change or happen. The time bubble is extremely comfortable, I seem to change my position almost instantly inside it, I don’t even have to think about it, it seems to happen naturally, unlike usually when I am uncomfortable I sit out the pain for at least ten minutes each time, and then change to a more comfortable position, This could be put down to laziness. I don’t really know what it is.
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davyjose

I really liked this. I could've kept reading. I think there are definite signs of promise with your writing.
It's not punctuated very well though; this would be the only criticism I would have.

Grievous

Thanks for the kind words davy.

I agree with you 100% on the punctuation point. I don't think my punctuation is generally bad, But I know when i write for fun-Blog-rant-opinion,short story-Novel ect ect that punctuation scares the crap out of me.

So what i do, In order to get ahead in my writing is to ignore the punctuation and worry about it later. This is definately a bad habit of mine which I need to work on. And What I mean about getting ahead in my writing is by writing as much as i can. I feel if I have an idea in my head i need to jolt it down straight away and just keep writing as much as i can, I feel that if i spend so much time correcting punctuation i would never get anything done. Anybody else ever have this problem?

Thanks again for any comments.

reality

I always let my punctuation hold me up! Many a time I've sat down to do some work and not actually produced anything new - I just toy around with the punctuation and word arrangement of what I've already done! Actually I love doing that, it's like verbal play-dough!
As for your piece, I liked the content but don't neglect simple punctuation - sure leave the fancy well-thought stuff until later, but the amount of work that'd be needed to correct an entire novel written as carelessly as the piece above would be heart-breaking!! On the whole though, I think you've got a good story on your hands - just be careful with how you tell it!!

Grievous

Would an editor refuse any entry because of punctuation? I ask this because I am have no idea how a publisher is run,or the thought process that goes into reviewing somebody's work.

Here is more:

Thanks again for your time and comments.

It is 1989 and my mother is giving me a bath, I have lots of cool toys in the bath, my favourite is toy soldiers, The simple little green ones that are made in giant moulds, the ones that never move and they always look stiff and they are always in firing squad positions, The perfect soldiers. Dutiful and loyal like statues. Many of these soldiers would end up broken or limbless from playing with them, natural wear I say, Sometimes I buried them in the garden But other times I gave them a different sending off, one a bit more fiery and hellish than they deserved, I put them in the fire, right in-between the hot coals in the fire, Nobody had radiators yet. I could only put them into the fire when nobody was looking, the plastic always burned brighter and the flame higher than anything else, the redness in-between the coals was glorious to look at, when the broken retired soldiers hit the red hotness they would change state in front of my eyes and this would fascinate me, the heat would bend and shape them into tiny little pools of liquefied plastic.

These soldiers were inanimate objects so I don’t believe they felt any pain, they were now on their way to becoming something new and unique, They could be used as little hills for the other soldiers to hide behind so there was always a new and useful use for the melted soldiers, lets call them the melted marines of hellfire. Even in melted form they gave help and cover for their brothers in arms, as I was saying-always loyal and dutiful. Even in death. In the bathtub though I used to love how they try to survive in the water with some help from me, I put them on sponges and on the backs of my plastic rubber ducks, did all kids have the same rubber ducks? You know the yellow ones that came in different sizes and had a nice unforgettable smell that said made in china underneath? Under my legs and feet I would hide the soldiers, my legs acted as underwater recon bases. We could jail captured enemies here too. Me and my brother had a game called the jail-game, I created it, it was quite simple, try and capture each other’s soldiers and figures and jail them in our self made jails, under our beds or in shoe boxes. When you captured your enemies, you never killed them, they became part your army, and the bigger the army, the more power you had.

My mother scrubs my toes. This hurts me greatly, but they need to be cleaned. There are bits of paint flaking off the bathtub; it was a cool little curve of flailing paint. I used to pick it all the time. I hate when my fingers wrinkle in the water, this means it is time to get out; the cold chill that hits my body every time I get out of the water is uncomfortable and annoying. A big fluffy aged towel soon dispels the cold and the drying kicks in, aged towels have plenty of character but are rough as sandpaper. Its fascination how the peoples skin can wear away the fabric of a towel like this. How hard is our skin? Is it the alkaline in the water? Is it hard water or soft water? You know the feeling of an old towel, maybe they material isn’t as durable as our skin.

The time bubble is 10 feet long, has transparent glass and has a single seat in the dead centre of the bubble. I don’t seem to need food or water inside the time bubble, I only suspect this is a time bubble because of the different era’s I am visiting, I don’t think I am moving through any tangible space at all, I have tried to reach out beyond the bubble to touch objects with no good results. Nobody can see me in the bubble. I am completely beyond the visible and physical spectrum. I have seen myself clearly in every time. I have tried to call to myself tons of times, I have tried to wave to get my own attention lots of times as well, No such luck so far. I will keep trying. Maybe something needs to change or happen. The time bubble is extremely comfortable, I seem to change my position almost instantly inside it, I don’t even have to think about it, it seems to happen naturally, unlike usually when I am uncomfortable I sit out the pain for at least ten minutes each time, and then change to a more comfortable position, This could be put down to laziness. I don’t really know what it is. I can see all around me, not a surprise, what sort of bubble is one sided? I can look out through the ceiling, I can look out through the floor, all around me in every direction but I can’t steer the bubble yet. Something needs to change or happen. I need to change something, to control this non-linear bubble and go to the all the times and era’s I would love to see. It would be a joy to go back further than 1984. 1984 seems to be my terminus, my birthday, In 1984 George Orwell’s dystopia still hasn’t come to be, or has it? And we don’t know any different? After all, big brother is rightwrong, goodbad and smartdumb!


The Bubble warps into each timeline effortlessly; I don’t even feel as much as a jerk inside the hub, that’s what I have named my point of view. My coveted VIP seat to view the time stream, I think river or ocean might be a better name for all of time, Why could it not be called the time mountain or time road? Mountains and roads are overly tangible and suggest that they can’t be penetrated so easily. They are set in solid stone, and to pierce these hard surfaces successfully the results would be disastrous. They would fall apart and spill over everywhere and the pieces would be scattered to the winds and never recovered. The Lost and lonely would never be found in the same state of peacefulness again. Rivers and oceans are constantly flowing and most people are aware of this perpetual state of change within any river and ocean, You don’t have to be a modern day siddartha to understand the constant change in the ocean, The tide is always turning, the river is always flowing, the river is always changing. The banks are always growing wider, making way for more water to flow on to its new journey. The bubble enters into each year and month seamlessly, is it the design of the bubble or the design of time? Am I also traversing space too?

Grievous

Some more.

It is 1993 and something is wrong, I am no longer viewing parts of my life, I am in a different place and I think I know where it is now,
I am in England, in a place called Liverpool and I have a job to do. It is all coming back to me now, the forgotten memory in my head; I need to do something about it, is this why the bubble has brought me here? If I can’t get out of the bubble what’s the point?

In 1993 a terrible event occurred. The murder of James bugler, this event shocked the world and everybody was disgusted. Parent were outraged and rightfully so, people never took their eyes off their children again. The story as it goes, Two younger boys were playing truant from school kidnapped the younger boy who was lost in a shopping centre, he had left his mothers side for 5 minutes and in that 5 minutes he encountered these two boys who were hanging out in the shopping mall with bad intentions in their minds, they had been robbing and hanging about the centre all day and the worst of all they had tried to nab another kid earlier on in that very day. They were later seen on the shopping mall security camera’s walking the young boy out of the centre.

They walked the boy around for part of the day and bullied him to come along with them, over 30 people had seen these two kids hitting the boy on that day and never thought much about it at the time, in interviews afterwards, these witnesses would later be shocked and disappointed with themselves as they admitted to not understanding fully at the time what was going on? One witness actually stopped the boys and asked if everything was okay with James and who was he? The boys said they knew him and were taken him home, they said of his bruises and cuts that he had fell and they were taken him home to his mother, perfect sinister lies. They continued on their way and they done cruel things to the boy and the ended that cruel day by killing the poor little boy.

The boys would later put the boys on the train tracks, so the first oncoming train would destroy the evidence and nobody would ever find out, the police found one half of the body in one place and the other half of the body some distance away. The train had torn the boys dead body apart. Why do these things happen? Who allows these things to happen?

I pray the boy fell gently and quickly into heaven, I know that gods arms are opened wide and I know he catches this befallen angel in his perfect embrace, he is in a nice place now where nobody can harm him anymore, I hope he has all the best friends and I hope he meets all the best people in god’s kingdom, I hope john Lennon plays some beautiful music for the boy everyday, I hope heaven’s funniest jesters are making him laugh every day and I hope heaven’s best authors like Charles dickens and Road Dahl are reading the greatest stories in the universe to him every day.


I am at the train station and I jump out of the bubble, how can I do this so easily? What changed? What did I actually do to suddenly find a way out of the bubble? I fall right through the membrane of the bubble wall land on the ground, I see two boys leading another smaller boy along the tracks, this boy is James, I sprint silently towards all 3 boys and approach them calmly, I begin to speak;

“Hello young lads, is everything all right? How are you all today?
The youngest boy James doesn’t look happy or safe. They kids don’t respond, “What happened to his face”? I ask politely. There is still no answer from any of them. I am vexed, the boys continue walking along the old train tracks with the boy in tow.
I think to myself, I have seen enough. Time to make a difference.
“Kids listen to me for second” I am a member of the police, yes, I am a policeman and we are looking for some bad men at the moment in this area and we know he is hiding in this place, I need to get you kids away from this area straight away and we need to leave now, The boys don’t look happy, my words are powerful and full of authority, I play my part well. I am towering above this would be killer and this innocent soul of a boy in front of me, I say follow me. They continue

elleA

You asked for honest opinions on this so that is what I am going to give you.

Firstly, I think the idea has potential but you have to be very careful with it. Mentioning the James Bulger case is a very bad idea in my opinion especially if your last paragraph is leading where I think it is, with you intervening and saving the little boy from his death. Using a real-life murder in a fictional novel and then changing the outcome of it for the sake of your book is hugely insensitive. Can you imagine how the mother of James Bulger would feel reading a book that talks about the day her child was murdered but where he ends up being saved instead? That didn't happen and it would be cruel to write. You can't re-write history. Now I am not in any way suggesting you are trying to be insensitive here but you just can't use real-life examples like that in a fictional book.

Excluding the James Bulger section, I think there is potential in the concept although travelling back in time is by no means a new or unique concept. I really liked some of the more personal feeling memories in the piece but I have to admit that I found them a little hard to connect to. Maybe that's just me, but when I'm reading a story the most important thing to me is if the writer can draw me into the world he is creating or the setting he is painting. That just didn't happen for me as I was reading this. I find your descriptions a little too matter of fact. This might be what you were aiming for though or it might just be your style. I'd be really interested in hearing other people's opinions on that because it could just be a personal preference of mine.

I hope you get plenty more comments on this piece.

Grievous

Thanks elle. This is what i want. complete honest opinions and I am loving the feedback.

Here's a fact about my story.

James Bulger does not got saved :mad:

Here is the pitch.

A man who dies comfortably in the hospital calls out to the universe to save a kid who was gruesomely murdered years ago (1993 lets say) just before he dies. The universe puts the man in a time bubble, where he visits random years and months of his life, these years are all happy times and mostly ordinary, everyday life. There is one year, which was repressed in his mind for so long, that of the kid who was by two other kids in England years ago. When he finally remembers this event he suddenly gains control of the bubble and heads to that timeline and tries to change the soon to be murdered kids destiny. The universe (Leader of the time river) summons the narrator and the bubble to the mouth of time. Where him and his masters explain the problems with changing the boy’s future, even if the act is pure and noble. Our story will end with our narrator dealing with the problem and accepting the event and dies peacefully and hopefully meets up with the kid in heaven and shares his toys with him so there is some semblance of happiness and satisfaction with the ending. Hopefully.

Grievous

Some more.

Story plot-structure-moral-themes.

1. Semi-autobiographical

2. A Non linear chronological tale

3. This story is about Ordinary and sometimes extraordinary people and situations. I like that in James Joyce’s Dubliners collection many of the short stories don’t really have anything awesome or Hollywood and glamorous about them, they are just told from the perspective of normal people at that time. As it were, or was for them. Not every story had to had a shock ending or twist in the tale. With this I feel sometimes people want to read something grounded in reality and something relatable.

4. Other major themes would be innocence, coming of age and nostalgia.

5. I am not sure if I want a surprise ending yet. Unless I believe I have the skill to pull it off without it seeming too forced and plot driven.

6. Time –I am fascinated with time, time travel especially. And I don’t even wear a watch!

7. Plot + additional hooks: 1) trying to find out how our main character has ended up in a time bubble, 2) the origin of the time bubble, 3) what has our main character to do to take control of the time bubble? Can he change anything in the past and does he want to? If he knows it can greatly affect the future? 4) The fate of our lead character. All these questions should be answered through course of the story, Told in the style of an autobiography of the narrator.

3 chapters. Each chapter will be around 2 Thousand or so words each. I will Start with chapter 3 and finish with chapter 1 to add to the non-chronological style of the story.

Chapter 3—Answers nothing, this is mainly the start and gives some insight into the narrator and his life in different years.
Chapter 2- Answers how he has ended up in a time bubble, and the origin of the time bubble. And he finds his way out of the bubble and heads to a timeline where he tries to change a tragic event. The ramifications of this change will be resolved in the third and final chapter, which is actually called chapter 1.
Chapter 1- Answers the fate of our narrator and can he change the past or future?

So basically, The Plot summary for me the writer of the story is this.

A man who dies comfortably in the hospital calls out to the universe to save a kid who was gruesomely murdered years ago (1993 lets say) just before he dies. The universe puts the man in a time bubble, where he visits random years and months of his life, these years are all happy times and mostly ordinary, everyday life. There is one year, which was repressed in his mind for so long, that of the kid who was by two other kids in England years ago. When he finally remembers this event he suddenly gains control of the bubble and heads to that timeline and tries to change the soon to be murdered kids destiny. The universe (Leader of the time river) summons the narrator and the bubble to the mouth of time. Where him and his masters explain the problems with changing the boy’s future, even if the act is pure and noble. Our story will end with our narrator dealing with the problem and accepting the event and dies peacefully and hopefully meets up with the kid in heaven and shares his toys with him so there is some semblance of happiness and satisfaction with the ending. Hopefully.

James bugler—anagramise the name to:

Grievous

elleA wrote: »

I think there is potential in the concept although travelling back in time is by no means a new or unique concept. I really liked some of the more personal feeling memories in the piece but I have to admit that I found them a little hard to connect to. Maybe that's just me, but when I'm reading a story the most important thing to me is if the writer can draw me into the world he is creating or the setting he is painting. That just didn't happen for me as I was reading this. I find your descriptions a little too matter of fact. This might be what you were aiming for though or it might just be your style. I'd be really interested in hearing other people's opinions on that because it could just be a personal preference of mine.

I hope you get plenty more comments on this piece.

Thanks for the compliments above, Some of these personal feelings are draw from life, my life, while some are purely fiction, When you say some of them are too matter of fact? what example would you point out?

bakkiesbotha

Why does the old man call out to the universe to save a kid who was gruesomely murdered years ago just before he dies?

Is this a recognised procedure that the old man is aware of?

Grievous

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Why does the old man call out to the universe to save a kid who was gruesomely murdered years ago just before he dies?

Is this a recognised procedure that the old man is aware of?

So far, Let's call him a man, An old man? I don't think so yet, I am thinking somebody in their 30's. I have not explained the reason he is dying yet.

The Name of the short story=The Boy in the bubble. This works well i think with the narrator, As he remembers fondly most of his earliers memories.

This event(Murder) is something that deeply effected him, This is mentioned in the above excerp, though not expanded on yet. This is an event he dreams of changing and something that knocked him down and touched him deeply as a child, when he was just a little older than the deceased.

The universe could be percieved as GOD or some form of spiritual guidance. Again, The story is fluid and we don't really know for sure what is going on, Do the boys hear him when he talks to them? No!.

bakkiesbotha

So the man is the victim's older brother, and feels guilt that he allowed him to be murdered. He is dying because he tried to do something to expiate his guilt,and this results in his own death. Then a supernatural force teaches him a lesson about destiny, just before he dies.

Is that the idea?

davyjose

Grievous, I like your style a lot, and I think you have talent. I also like your idea. My typical preference would be less fantasy-based than what you're going for, but I think you can pull this off, I have one doubt, however:

Please DO NOT make referance, or allusion, to the jamie Bulger case. It's not just that it's insensitive (and it is kinda), but it actually cheapens your story - let me explain: You are a writer which means you have the ability, and the opportunity, to create anything. By touching off something that is based in reality, you are denying yourself this, you are taking a lazy option by manipulating something thast has already happened, because it is based in the assumption that the reader has a prior knowledge of what you have written, which means you don't have to put as much effort in to create the tragedy (the irony being that you DID create the tragedy very effectively in your writing). Many, many great writers have written about tragedies - and other events - that have happened, but almost always, they mask it with a character of their own. This works better IMO.

I can guarantee you'd have gotten a much more positive response had you named the kid: James <insert surname here> instead. You can write, and I presume you feel strongly about that incident, but a writer can only operate with a certain amount of cold detachment. That's why I personally delete everything I write when Drunk, and/or listening to music, LOL . It brings to much of ME out of me.

I hope you see what I mean here. Best of Luck,

Dave

Grievous

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

So the man is the victim's older brother, and feels guilt that he allowed him to be murdered. He is dying because he tried to do something to expiate his guilt,and this results in his own death. Then a supernatural force teaches him a lesson about destiny, just before he dies.

Is that the idea?

Heh, No, it is not the victims older brother. I am not going for anything twilight zone like. The narrator is not really important, As in he is related to none of the victims.

Grievous

davyjose wrote: »

Grievous, I like your style a lot, and I think you have talent. I also like your idea. My typical preference would be less fantasy-based than what you're going for, but I think you can pull this off, I have one doubt, however:

Please DO NOT make referance, or allusion, to the jamie Bulger case. It's not just that it's insensitive (and it is kinda), but it actually cheapens your story - let me explain: You are a writer which means you have the ability, and the opportunity, to create anything. By touching off something that is based in reality, you are denying yourself this, you are taking a lazy option by manipulating something thast has already happened, because it is based in the assumption that the reader has a prior knowledge of what you have written, which means you don't have to put as much effort in to create the tragedy (the irony being that you DID create the tragedy very effectively in your writing). Many, many great writers have written about tragedies - and other events - that have happened, but almost always, they mask it with a character of their own. This works better IMO.

I can guarantee you'd have gotten a much more positive response had you named the kid: James <insert surname here> instead. You can write, and I presume you feel strongly about that incident, but a writer can only operate with a certain amount of cold detachment. That's why I personally delete everything I write when Drunk, and/or listening to music, LOL . It brings to much of ME out of me.

I hope you see what I mean here. Best of Luck,

Dave

Dave,

I think I see what you saying. I think i will change the second name, I wanted to make an anagram of his name as a way of changing it, But I found that name difficult to make an anagram out of.

I think if i change the second name, How would I change the facts of the true event as well? Or cut them out? or alter them dramatically?

I do want to pursue the idea of this event effecting someone profoundly to make them want to wish it never happen. But show them that it can't be changed.

As for the insensitive part. I will probably need to build on his friends in heaven, I mentioned meeting john lennon and other great people in heaven as a gift the fallen angel.

Grievous

I spent 10 minutes thinking about this name change.

And I have decided to go with: Jame innocentia. I like the latin touch to it as well.

davyjose

Grievous wrote: »

Dave,

I think if i change the second name, How would I change the facts of the true event as well? Or cut them out? or alter them dramatically?

I don't think you have to. You can hint at reality, but spelling out the kids name is to close to the bone. The fact is, there are all kinds of brutal murders committed every day unfortunately. Sure, you can describe a similar death, you can make it an homage to Jamie Bulger, but using his name is too personal.

I didn't even notice the anagram. It's a bit like this:

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Grievous

Davy. That thing you just posted above has just made my night :-)

I have read something similer like that before. But I love that example.

Just thinking.

I have one more chapter to go on this story. I better take my finger out and try get it finished tonight.

Working on it 1 week now. and I want it finished so i can start on my next short story.

As always. Thanks for the feedback. I will definately be contributing to all your future submissions and posts.

Peace:)

bakkiesbotha

Grievous wrote: »

The narrator is not really important, As in he is related to none of the victims.

Then I for one don't find it convincing that he would be thinking of this event on his deathbed, or that his very last living thought would be of some news story, no matter how poignant.

pickarooney

Mary J Blige is almost an anagram (just substitute the Y for a U).
I think you're teasing us a bit Grievous - why exactly is the guy obsessed with this particular case? Is it to do with the existence of evil in children that somehow relates to him?

elleA

I'm glad you are getting plenty of feedback on this! I now understand your plot and concept much better and I definitely think it has a lot of promise. It will be very interesting to read when it is complete.

However I have to respectfully disagree with davyjose, I would feel quite strongly that you should alter the events of the tragic incident considerably. In my opinion it isn't right to include any kind of details in the story that make it too identifiable with the real case. I don't think it's right to mention the child being led onto the railway tracks etc. Change the location, perhaps add a third boy and don't call the character James. I just don't think that's right. His family are still alive and if your story ever did get published I don't think it's right to make money off a story influenced greatly by his murder unless you have the family's permission.

I've read and re-read all of what you've posted so far and I have to take back my earlier comments about your style seeming a bit too matter of fact. I was reading it without knowing the full concept and now that I know, I think the matter of fact style works quite well. It's very striking.

Best of luck with finishing it. I'll definitely be back to read more if you post more.

Elle

davyjose

elleA wrote: »

However I have to respectfully disagree with davyjose, I would feel quite strongly that you should alter the events of the tragic incident considerably. In my opinion it isn't right to include any kind of details in the story that make it too identifiable with the real case. I don't think it's right to mention the child being led onto the railway tracks etc.

Maybe not Elle; you could be right. I was simply trying to suggest that describing the events are much less invasive than naming the victim.
For instance, if you were to describe someone dying of Cancer, well ... how many people know someone who has died of Cancer? Nearly everyone who has made it to their thirties, I would guess (I have multiple times by now). So can we not describe someone dying of cancer in a novel because it's too close to the bone? Well, of course we can.

Now the thing is, and maybe this is what i don't get (because I don't know the details of poor Jamie Bulger's death), is that maybe the details of Greivous' character are too unique, and too close to Jamie Bulger's death, so maybe i don't get that. But without being crass, he's not the first to be killed on a railway track, and doubtfully will he be the last. So from my POV, the events described aren't as personal to Jamie, as naming the poor kid.

Grievous

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Then I for one don't find it convincing that he would be thinking of this event on his deathbed, or that his very last living thought would be of some news story, no matter how poignant.

Can I just ask: Why does a twilight zone-esque twist mean so much to you in this case? I have been making it clear that is event is not any random news case to the narrator, It is one that has affected his pysche so bad that he can't accept the event and spends so much time thinking about changing the past, That eventually his mind can't take it anymore.

Remember. The case shook the world. You can't deny that.

elleA

davyjose wrote: »

Maybe not Elle; you could be right. I was simply trying to suggest that describing the events are much less invasive than naming the victim.
For instance, if you were to describe someone dying of Cancer, well ... how many people know someone who has died of Cancer? Nearly everyone who has made it to their thirties, I would guess (I have multiple times by now). So can we not describe someone dying of cancer in a novel because it's too close to the bone? Well, of course we can.

Now the thing is, and maybe this is what i don't get (because I don't know the details of poor Jamie Bulger's death), is that maybe the details of Greivous' character are too unique, and too close to Jamie Bulger's death, so maybe i don't get that.

Yes, that's it. The details of his death are unique and Grievous has mentioned the very specifics of it in his story. James wasn't killed by a train on the traintracks. He was viciously murdered by two 10 year old boys who then placed his body on the tracks to make it look like an accident. I was only a child myself when it happened but I remember it on the news and 16 years later still cannot fathom how two 10 year olds could do that.

Grievous wrote: »

In 1993 a terrible event occurred. The murder of James bugler, this event shocked the world and everybody was disgusted. Parent were outraged and rightfully so, people never took their eyes off their children again. The story as it goes, Two younger boys were playing truant from school kidnapped the younger boy who was lost in a shopping centre, he had left his mothers side for 5 minutes and in that 5 minutes he encountered these two boys who were hanging out in the shopping mall with bad intentions in their minds, they had been robbing and hanging about the centre all day and the worst of all they had tried to nab another kid earlier on in that very day. They were later seen on the shopping mall security camera’s walking the young boy out of the centre.

They walked the boy around for part of the day and bullied him to come along with them, over 30 people had seen these two kids hitting the boy on that day and never thought much about it at the time, in interviews afterwards, these witnesses would later be shocked and disappointed with themselves as they admitted to not understanding fully at the time what was going on? One witness actually stopped the boys and asked if everything was okay with James and who was he? The boys said they knew him and were taken him home, they said of his bruises and cuts that he had fell and they were taken him home to his mother, perfect sinister lies. They continued on their way and they done cruel things to the boy and the ended that cruel day by killing the poor little boy.

The boys would later put the boys on the train tracks, so the first oncoming train would destroy the evidence and nobody would ever find out, the police found one half of the body in one place and the other half of the body some distance away. The train had torn the boys dead body apart. Why do these things happen? Who allows these things to happen?

lin lin

Hiya
Im no expert and not even a writer, but i think it’s great, i’ve always been fascinated by time travel too, that plot is just my cup of tea, and even if it’s an old popular concept it doesn’t mean its not interesting and/or relevant. Personally i think I have noticed in recent years an increased interest in quantum physics and the limits of the human mind and spirituality (im not basing this on any known facts or statistics just personal impressions). And i don’t think theres any harm to write about it even from a commercial perspective :-)

As a non writer I would suggest:
if you keep it as a short story I don’t think there’s any need for a link between the old man and the murder, but it would have to rely heavily on style and the themes you mentioned,

but if you turn it into a novel there would have to be explanations to all these things but I still think the plot is great and I don’t think there has to be a twist in the end

and I agree with the other posters when they say not to make any reference to the Jamie Bulger case

ok I have one question though just out of curiosity! (I’m not questioning the plot) :
I completely get that the man on his deathbed thinks about the tragedy, want to and can go back to when it happened, but how do you explain that he can’t change it? I’m sure you have an answer but I can wait if you let me know when your book is in the shops! :-) Good luck!

reality

I think I side with elleA! Grievous, I would be wary of using exclusively specific details that might have a direct and adverse affect anyone involved in the case - doing so might mean you are branded insensitive to the point of vulgarity!! If you are writing this with an commercial purpose in mind, I'd be careful not to include material that might cause mass offence!

lin lin

elleA wrote: »

Yes, that's it. The details of his death are unique and Grievous has mentioned the very specifics of it in his story. James wasn't killed by a train on the traintracks. He was viciously murdered by two 10 year old boys who then placed his body on the tracks to make it look like an accident. I was only a child myself when it happened but I remember it on the news and 16 years later still cannot fathom how two 10 year olds could do that.

Yes, very sad.

I think you, OP, as you’re not doing this to pay homage to Jamie Bulger, you just have to come up with a similar, equally disturbing crime.. I’m not into gory literature but I tend to remember the horrible things that happen to people in John Irving’s novels!... :-) and I’ve always believed they were fictitious, maybe I’m wrong.

Grievous

lin lin wrote: »

ok I have one question though just out of curiosity! (I’m not questioning the plot) :
I completely get that the man on his deathbed thinks about the tragedy, want to and can go back to when it happened, but how do you explain that he can’t change it? I’m sure you have an answer but I can wait if you let me know when your book is in the shops! :-) Good luck!

Heh. I am nearly finished. Just 1 thousand words left. I am aiming for a 6 thousand word short story. It could be bigger or smaller in the end.:)

Thanks for the comments. Here is an excerp from the final chapter. As I said, I am nearly finished. Then I will spend a week editing, chopping and changing and fixing up.

I don’t where were I am, I don’t know what time I am in. I don’t know anything anymore. Everything is blurry at the moment. I start to sit up and try to find my bearings again, I am finding it difficult to make any sense of this place, and I don’t know if I am dead or alive anymore. Am I in heaven yet? For that matter, where was I before I arrived in the time bubble?

After all I have seen and been through I decide to start thinking about what questions I can ask and what is going on.

One of the beings begins to speak. He looks so serene and peaceful. I suddenly close my mouth without muttering a word.

“Greetings Earthling”,

We are the time keepers, we are as old as time itself, if we were to begin to try and explain to you how old time is that would take whole decades, and we can assure you, your journey is not only nearly completed on this plane of existence, your path has already being mapped out for you by beings that are more powerful than us, they are the deciders and makers of destiny. We are just the timekeepers and protectors of the OCEAN of TIME. We rarely meet the celestial beings. They have appointed us to the OCEAN of TIME and we are grateful that we have been birthed and given purpose in the universe. For this we are quite literally eternally grateful, and we eternally do our duties for all of time. Like our creators in heaven, we take no genders and labels; we are neither male nor female.
One could say we just are.

After a couple of million years we decided to call our realm of existence the OCEAN of TIME, we have always found that in every timeline the human named OCEANS and RIVERS are/were/will always be perfect reminders of what we guard and how time ebbs and flows. And like OCEANS and RIVERS, we have adopted all the human’s other terms and definitions that come with OCEANS, RIVERS and all things pertaining to WATER. We just apply them to time. Likewise, a singular OCEAN on it’s own could be viewed as a century, and a LAKE a decade, and a SEA a half-century, A CANAL could be viewed as a week, and a STREAM a day, a POOL a half day. We will not explain the complexities of all these names. The human brain can accept that size is a key factor in the choosing of these names, but it is not the complete reason.


A CHANNEL is simply somebody on earth thinking they are making their own time, they never realise, that that what they are doing is always going to happen that way. Their mind wouldn’t begin to understand so they simplify everything they do in their heads to cope with the daily trappings of human existence. We don’t frown on this. People should not think of time as an obstacle or a thing they need to control. They should make the best of their time on the planet.
Sometimes we intervene in our own subtle ways when we feel the time is right. Sometimes somebody losing their job or falling in love are ways of guiding somebody in time and then they pursue their hope and dreams with renewed fervour.

People will always die when they are supposed to die. But we know when somebody will die in 40 years time, but when we feel they have fallen into a slump. We just give them the extra boost, on the other hand, some people never need a boost, they help themselves along, and this saves us lots of work, we are still extremely busy but we are very resourceful and our influence in time is only second to the almighty GOD.
We make sure everything stays in it’s proper place and that the river always flows the same way throughout time and in every dimension. It is important that time MEANDERS on it’s own and nobody interferes.

One could say that everyone on what you human beings call earth will always be born on the same day and will always die on the same day, this has been decided already by the beings that we mentioned earlier. We don’t know why they make these decisions and we don’t know why they choose the people they choose to be born and the people they choose to die at those times, we only know time and it’s every nuance. Time is complex and yet so simple.

There are a small number of your kind who have a little understanding of time, a mere taste of something they can’t feel or touch with human hands. One of these beings goes by the name STEFANO HAWKGUNS. We are a quite impressed with his knowledge of time, and subsequently, I believe are predecessors who protect and view the complete space continuum are quite intrigued by MR HAWKGUNS knowledge on SPACE. Our predecessors are as old as us, older to the human mind, as they were created and chosen to protect the OCEAN of TIME before we were born. In short GOD needed our help. The one almighty GOD had become too busy and needed some help with the universe: so we were created to guard and watch the Time/Space continuum forever. God is busy and has so much more other work to do.

This brings us to you and how you got here and why you think you were in a time

Grievous

reality wrote: »

I think I side with elleA! Grievous, I would be wary of using exclusively specific details that might have a direct and adverse affect anyone involved in the case - doing so might mean you are branded insensitive to the point of vulgarity!! If you are writing this with an commercial purpose in mind, I'd be careful not to include material that might cause mass offence!

I agree, I have had a long think about it. I am in the process of altering the details.

Just for the record. This could be viewed as an homage the deceased person in question. So I want to try write it in the most honest to god, homage paying way.

reality

You could always change the more explicit details and put a note at the end, in memory of James?

Grievous

Not a bad suggestion, I just don't want people thinking I am trying to cash in on the tragedy of someone else.

And this is not a novel that needs to be published.

It is a short story, Among others that i would like to enter into a competition some time.

BY the way, I googled short story competitions in Ireland and got NOTHING.

Are there any regular, annual comps being run? I feel it's time to re-open my notes from college and start polishing them up.

davyjose

Grievous wrote: »

I will definately be contributing to all your future submissions and posts.

Peace:)

I don't post here. Post cos you wanna post, not cos you feel you should. Comment on what you feel you can offer a valid opinion on.

Grievous

davyjose wrote: »

I don't post here. Post cos you wanna post, not cos you feel you should. Comment on what you feel you can offer a valid opinion on.

I am thinking along the lines of: You have contributed quite a few posts to this thread already. and constant Thank you's would be annoying to you.

so offering to give a thought on something you wrote would be my way of saying thanks, and just like you don't know personally, and I don't know you. I have no reason to lie to you when it comes to critism and I would hope the same from you. :-)

Quick question though, why don't you post stuff here?

davyjose

Grievous wrote: »

Quick question though, why don't you post stuff here?

Because I have a lot to say about others' work. And that would conflict, i believe, with an honest review of my work.

I may, or may not, however, use an alias :pac:

bakkiesbotha

Grievous wrote: »

Can I just ask: Why does a twilight zone-esque twist mean so much to you in this case? I have been making it clear that is event is not any random news case to the narrator, It is one that has affected his pysche so bad that he can't accept the event and spends so much time thinking about changing the past, That eventually his mind can't take it anymore.

Remember. The case shook the world. You can't deny that.

I'm not pushing for anything here. It's your story.

My only point is that people on their deathbeds tend to think about themselves, their own lives, and the people closest to them.

I guess I'll wait for the finished product to see how Jamie Bulger (or whatever you are going to call him) fits in with your protagonist.

davyjose

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

I'm not pushing for anything here. It's your story.

My only point is that people on their deathbeds tend to think about themselves, their own lives, and the people closest to them.

Have you researched this?

I'm not being smart, but I'm sure people in their death-bed aren't 100% focused on their own miserable situation. I'm sure they still think about other things. I hink the Author will need to find a way to relate the protagonists life to that of Jamie Bulger (or whoever), but as to the fact that he wouldn't reflect on a tragic event ... I'm not so sure he wouldn't.

bakkiesbotha

davyjose wrote: »

Have you researched this?

I'm not being smart, but I'm sure people in their death-bed aren't 100% focused on their own miserable situation. I'm sure they still think about other things. I hink the Author will need to find a way to relate the protagonists life to that of Jamie Bulger (or whoever), but as to the fact that he wouldn't reflect on a tragic event ... I'm not so sure he wouldn't.

Not being smart either but no, I haven't asked any dead people what their very last thoughts were. This is what this story is about. With his very last breath, the hero calls out to the universe to undo the kid's murder.

Of course anything is possible, but imagine another story where someone's last words / thoughts are about, say, Veronica Guerin. You would expect that person to have had a close connection to her in life, and if they didn't, you might wonder what the hell is going on, no?

Grievous

Some deaths can have a profound effect on others. Even if they are not related.

davyjose

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

You would expect that person to have had a close connection to her in life, and if they didn't, you might wonder what the hell is going on, no?

That's part of the intrigue of Grievous' story. There clearly is some kind of link there. Who knows, maybe the Protagonist is one of the murderers.

I haven't read the complete piece, in which case I'm not gonna say "this doesn't work", because I assume it'll be explained as the story progresses. If not, then yeah, maybe it's a bit questionable.

davyjose

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Not being smart either but no, I haven't asked any dead people what their very last thoughts were.

Me either, which lends the writer a degree of artistic license, IMO.

Grievous

Personally.

I think it would cheapen the story to turn around at the end and say, By the way, I am his brother, I am his fater, I am his sister.

Reminds me of one of the many reasons the GI JOE movie was so bad, The villain is the good guys best friend, who in turn is the brother of the evil woman in the movie, which turns out, she dated the good guy years ago.

Not everybody has to be related. Tim burton goes with his own origins for batman:

The Joker kills bruce wayne parents years ago, Thus birthing the BATMAN.

THis is not only silly, it is forced. Bruce waybe becomes BATMAN because he needs to become batman, WHO kills his parents is not important. All we need is a nobody to kill them, and his mission has started.

Enough of me ranting.:D

The person dieing in the story has repressed this one case in his mind for so long, that time keepers deem him a time curio and it is part of there job to alleviate these memories.

Poppy78

I loved it up to your last chapter.

I don't like your time keepers; they speak like awfully clichéd pulpy sci-fi characters. I know that is their voice as they are totally different from the original protagonist who had a lovely clarity and individuality in his tone. You would imagine if these new characters have been alive for nearly all of time they would have found a less tawdry way of expressing themselves.

The "Hello Earthlings" bit literally made me laugh out loud. Was it irony? The tone of the rest of the piece is so serious and intellectual; it jars in its cheesiness.

Other than that I love the idea and feel I would like to read the piece in its entirety very much. Your style of writing is interesting and captivating.

lin lin

im sorry but i have to agree with Poppy 78. The new bit is a bit too fantasy-like for me, I thought the themes were people and nostalgia and innoncence.

i think it's ambitious to have a theme like a cruel murder in a short story, plus death, plus time travel. now you're bringing in aliens and God, that's a lot.. nothing wrong with writing about any these concepts but it might be hard to make them all work together