Charity cycle and no respect for rules of the road

Trampas

Was driving this morning on the Clane to Barberstown Road and came across a long line of traffic.

Which ended up been seem to be a charity cycle.

They cyclists were not bunched together in one big group but spaced over a few miles.

I say about 25% had a helmet on.

Some were cycling 3 a breast where the 3rd person was very close to the middle of the road.

Appeared to some have never cycled on the road in a long time the way they appeared to be in a world of their own.

Then coming to barberstown roundabout I had cyclists passing me on either side of the car.

Not saying charity cycling is wrong but to the organisers to make sure the people taking part that the road is not closed and that everyone wears a helmet and obeys the rules of the road

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Helmets aren't mandatory and wearing them can contribute to certain types of injury.

/cue that debate all over again

Civilian_Target

The rules of the road allow two abreast, not three. I am surprised they were doing this.

Helmets aren't mandatory, there's no scientific evidence that the overall effect of wearing them is positive.

How did you manage to get your car into a situation where you had cyclists passing on either side?!

DJsail

Three abreast is a taking the p**s abit on an open road, helmets are more of a personal choice but I suppose do contribute if nothing else to more of a safety culture so should be encouraged, where there any marshalls?

blorg

This sounds like the Martin Early Tour of Kildare which was on this morning. I was up the front, maybe it stretched back a bit, but at that point the intention was to keep the group together as much as possible and the speed was being controlled. The event was run with the full permission of the Gardaí and indeed was being paced by a Garda Traffic Corps vehicle at the time. The event was very well marshalled between motorbike marhsalls and motorbike Gardaí who were holding junctions closed for us as we went through. To be honest there were so many cyclists in the bunch (estimates 500) there was no way you would be able to overtake in any case.

Helmets are not a legal requirement as others say although they were a requirement for the event and indeed are the norm on these cycles so I am very surprised of your estimate, personally I did not see a SINGLE person without a helmet.

emtroche

Trampas wrote: »

I say about 25% had a helmet on.

A couple of pictures here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055631374&page=6

Show me one person without a helmet.

Diarmuid

Trampas wrote: »

Not saying charity cycling is wrong but to the organisers to make sure the people taking ... obeys the rules of the road

How does that work? Ever race or event I've ever been on, the organisers remind everyone to obey the rules of the road. That's about as much as they can do.

tunney

Due to the joys of an iPhone I'm typing this at a bus stop after coming out from Croke Park after watching some lovely hurling. There are pedestrians coming ouf of the game wearing no safety equipment what so ever, just walking out in front of cars, just stepping off the kerb into traffic without looking, I'm pretty sure I've seen people walking five abreast and generally obstructing traffic.
Should I ring the GAA to complain?
Should I go post on the gaa board to bitch?

Húrin

Trampas wrote: »

I say about 25% had a helmet on.

What hell like why do people always bring up the helmet issue as evidence that those who don't wear a helmet are somehow incompetent or criminal?

DirkVoodoo

3 abreast is bad alright, helmets should be worn on these kinds of sportives but they are not a legal requirement and it is up to the organisers to enfore a "no helmet, no cycle" rule.

As for the rest of it...well, sportives are not races so there is no obligation for slower people to try and maintain a peloton with faster cyclists. In a world of their own? I don't get this..you mean they were out on a nice sunday, raising money for charity and it delayed your sunday drive a bit. Maybe there should have been a traffic warning like there are for marathons and other events that inconvenience drivers for a few hours every year, but that is up to the local authorities.

I don't know what complaining on here is going to achieve...except maybe raising blood pressure for the folk who have to read it.

Just looking at those photos emtroche linked to...now I know it may not be representative of the entire group, but it seems that the cyclists pictured are wearing helmets, riding in a respobsible fashion, marshalled by the gardai, etc. Which would lead me to believe you are simply irate and having a rant because one or two cyclists out of a few hundred ticked you off. Don't sully an entire event because of this.

Raam

tunney wrote: »

Due to the joys of an iPhone I'm typing this at a bus stop after coming out from Croke Park after watching some lovely hurling. There are pedestrians coming ouf of the game wearing no safety equipment what so ever, just walking out in front of cars, just stepping off the kerb into traffic without looking, I'm pretty sure I've seen people walking five abreast and generally obstructing traffic.
Should I ring the GAA to complain?
Should I go post on the gaa board to bitch?

I saw three cars driving with a wheel on the footpad today in order to get past other cars who were queuing to turn right. I'll report this to the motorsports, motoring, commuting and transport forums and see what they have to say.

Tackleberry

Standard overreactions from all the cyclists here, having been on loads of charity spins and sportives over the years I'm still amazed by the riding and antics of many cyclists, all you guys are right in that you are probably speaking of experienced cyclists and they shouldnt be criticised, but at these events there's always huge numbers of cycling noobs who make arses of themselves all day, hogging the road, not letting cars pass, and generally causing a nuisance.

One example was the ring of kerry last month, absolutely bananas on the roads coz all the noobs hadnt a clue what they were at - so I think there is some validity in the points made in the op, perhaps a quick group talk before these events would be an idea, to outline maybe 10 main major safety guidelines for the day?

barrabus

There was some crap cycling today in fairness. Saw some "inexperienced" cycling at roundabouts .

however op it is an utter fiction to say most (or any) weren't wearing helmets. And even if they werent it is not ur business . If I saw you sans seat belt Id think you were taking an unnecessary risk but you wouldn't find me on the motoring forum going "you'll never guess what I saw"
Also so what if people were cycling more than two abreast - it was a marshalled cycling event it happens in every marshalled road race I do.
Why not get a "down with this sort of 3 abreast thing" sign for the next event.

kenmc

Tackleberry wrote: »

Standard overreactions from all the cyclists here, having been on loads of charity spins and sportives over the years I'm still amazed by the riding and antics of many cyclists, all you guys are right in that you are probably speaking of experienced cyclists and they shouldnt be criticised, but at these events there's always huge numbers of cycling noobs who make arses of themselves all day, hogging the road, not letting cars pass, and generally causing a nuisance.

One example was the ring of kerry last month, absolutely bananas on the roads coz all the noobs hadnt a clue what they were at - so I think there is some validity in the points made in the op, perhaps a quick group talk before these events would be an idea, to outline maybe 10 main major safety guidelines for the day?

Maybe so, but pretty feckin pointless coming on here crying about spilt milk really. This is a cycling forum, not an 'I feel like having a moan about some specific cyclists' forum. The same complaints get very old, hence the standard responses. Does the OP go onto the taxi drivers forum moaning when he sees a taxi do an illegal turn? How about the bus drivers forum when a bus does something wrong?

p.s. "Down with this sort of thing" - there - everyone happy now?

Trampas

The people I seen were far from the people in the photos.

The people where cycling on bikes that hadn't seen a service in a long time.

There were wearing jogging clothes more than cycle gear.

Maybe the people I seen were the back end of the group.

It would have been around 10.45 I say when I seen them

t0mm

Slightly off topic, but a law related question here. Where a cycle lane of any kind doesn't exist, a bike MUST use the road. However, do they have any obligation to allow cars to pass? Does any vehicle? Can you get a fine/penalty points for driving slowly?

I'm not looking for a moral discussion of being nice and letting people pass, I'm simply curious as to what the law has to say on the matter.

unionman

Trampas wrote: »

I say about 25% had a helmet on.

Some were cycling 3 a breast where the 3rd person was very close to the middle of the road.

Boohoo.

25%? Statistical bull**** (ah the internet). I noticed 1 (count 'em) person without a helmet.

3 abreast? Should have seen me...4 abreast at times. Absolutely shocking stuff.

Yeah noobs do some crazy stuff. One day a year. On a sunday. For a good cause. Get the f**k over yerself.

blorg

As Tackleberry and Barrabus rightly say there can be a bit of mucky cycling on these things. I made sure to stress in my post that I was near the front (precisely to avoid said mucky cycling insofar as possible) and so I can't speak for what the OP may have seen going on at the back (other than the helmet thing, because honestly everyone was wearing a lid.) Sportives attract a lot of cyclists not used to riding in a group and this creates safety hazards, but they are generally hazards for the cyclists (who might run into each other) rather than other road users.

Bottom line, I was filling in the OP based on my knowledge of the day, that it was a fully marshalled event with garda permission and indeed escort, and that the volume of cyclists on that road was such there would have been no chance a car could safely overtake.

Regarding the roundabout, I imagine the OP stopped at the roundabout entering it (as one is meant to do) and cyclists from behind filtered around both sides... it sounds like he got into the middle of the event which TBH is not a very good idea, probably would have been safer just to stay behind it until it turned off. There probably should have been a marshall leading up the rear to try to ensure this, but with that many cyclists on the road of vastly different abilities it can be difficult to keep them all together.

Stark

Trampas wrote: »

There were wearing jogging clothes more than cycle gear.

Jasus, there's a clothes requirement in the unofficial cycling RotR now?

blorg

t0mm wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but a law related question here. Where a cycle lane of any kind doesn't exist, a bike MUST use the road. However, do they have any obligation to allow cars to pass? Does any vehicle? Can you get a fine/penalty points for driving slowly?

You can get a conviction for driving slowly and unnecessarily impeding traffic, yes. There was a case where a tractor driver holding up traffic excessively was convicted. As a practical matter cyclists out by themselves (e.g. not part of a marshalled event) will ride at a maximum of two abreast (it is the standard and legal "chaingang" formation) and will look to give cars as much opportunity to pass safely as possible. This also goes for any experienced cyclist when out of the marshalled part of an organised cycle (e.g. if it breaks up majorly, as they tend to do at some point.)

@OP- there were two events on simultaneously, a 100km and a 50km. You probably saw people falling off the back of the 50km ride, I can't speak for them, I wasn't there. There is only so much that an organiser can marshall that number of people but a short speech about group riding, etc. and what you should do if you find yourself outside the marshalled bunch would probably be a good idea... They would have been riding three abreast in the marshalled bunch and presumably continued this once they dropped off the back.

Lumen

In my experience of the WW200 and ROK charity cycles there is a bit of a "last day of school" feeling as after (potentially) years of cycling in heavy traffic feeling like a prawn amongst sharks you're suddenly in a huge majority. I felt like that despite having spent more years of my adult life as a driver than a cyclist, and TBH it's a bit embarrassing to admit.

That aside, if you're amongst hundreds of cyclists there's really no way you can be anything other than a massive inconvenience however considerate you're being and however many abreast you choose to ride. As a driver, I think I'd rather people were three abreast in a big bunch than strung out for miles - at worst you can pull over and have a break or take a different route. It is Sunday FFS.

There are few roads where being 3 abreast is more of an hassle to a competent driver than 2 - either you have visibility to cross the line completely or you don't. Nervous overtaking is the classic sign of an undertrained driver.

MWalljobs

I was on the cycle today as I am a member of the organising club, I did not see 1 cyclist without a helmet let alone 25% (we had 409 signed on riders). I did see the 3 and 4 abreast carry on, but I was up the front and did see Gardai telling oncoming traffic to pull in and wait for the all 409 to pass, which took about 9 minutes. The Tour was neutralised at the section you talk about and you should have waited the 9 min as you were indicated to do so by Gardai, they know their job. 9 min to avoid an accident isn't that much is it?

rottenhat

To be fair, there were a lot of people there today who appeared to be a bit unclear on what the function of the white line down the middle of the road might be, or exactly which way you're supposed to go around a roundabout, and this is quite common at these events.

But really, don't post here to complain - write a letter to the organisers. They might address this with their marshals for next year, no-one reading this can doing anything about it bar improve their own personal road manners.

leftism

I took part in this event today. Never done a cycling event before but i thought the safety marshalling, organisation and Garda support was top notch.

I don't think i saw a single cyclist without a helmet....

I did however see an impatient driver in a BMW on the Clane to Celbridge Rd. after the Barberstown roundabout basically try to barge and overtake his way through the entire field with little regard to the safety of the riders. Was this you by any chance???

biomed32

leftism wrote: »

I took part in this event today. Never done a cycling event before but i thought the safety marshalling, organisation and Garda support was top notch.

I don't think i saw a single cyclist without a helmet....

I did however see an impatient driver in a BMW on the Clane to Celbridge Rd. after the Barberstown roundabout basically try to barge and overtake his way through the entire field with little regard to the safety of the riders. Was this you by any chance???

this was my first event too and found it very well organised and i did have a prob with some impatient cars too but generally no problems, fair play to you hope you enjoyed it

tunney

Stark wrote: »

Jasus, there's a clothes requirement in the unofficial cycling RotR now?

but we have rules here, they are called the euro rules.

Jumpy

emtroche wrote: »

A couple of pictures here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055631374&page=6

Show me one person without a helmet.

copacetic

clearly a runner judging by the adidas series shirt, also spot the full boards kit!

biomed32

Jumpy wrote: »

thats just 1 guy, doesnt look like 25% of the cyclist to me!!!!:)

NewDubliner

t0mm wrote: »

Where a cycle lane of any kind doesn't exist, a bike MUST use the road. However, do they have any obligation to allow cars to pass? Does any vehicle? Can you get a fine/penalty points for driving slowly?

All vehicles must keep to left of the road the left to facilitate passing by other vehicles. Also, cars must not park on a roadway if this would obstruct the normal flow of traffic.

Other than reasonable efforts to keep left, there's no legal requirement to take extraordinary measures to faciliate cars passing. Unless instructed specifically to do so by a Garda at that specific time.

Ryaner

leftism wrote: »

I did however see an impatient driver in a BMW on the Clane to Celbridge Rd. after the Barberstown roundabout basically try to barge and overtake his way through the entire field with little regard to the safety of the riders. Was this you by any chance???

Whoever that was deserves to have their licence taken off them. Spent a while behind the car and he was going along the outside and then randomly pulling back in forcing cyclists back.

redmenace1

Wasn't on the ride today but did pass it out on Kilcock Road. I stopped my bike and admired the scene.
Like others said there was almost complete helmet usage.
However on the down side I noticed a "leading" rider doing a breakaway from the bunch on the right hand side of a single continous white line.:eek: The remainder of the bunch was filling a fair bit of the road (well more than two abreast), but almost all were on correct side of white line.
The two smaller groups were tidier.

The marshalling was first class and any other road users on the road should be well aware of what was happening but on a narrow stretch, the safety of the riders is undoubtedly compromised by the careless riding of quite a few.
That could spoil it in the future...........

The tax man

leftism wrote: »

I did however see an impatient driver in a BMW on the Clane to Celbridge Rd. after the Barberstown roundabout basically try to barge and overtake his way through the entire field with little regard to the safety of the riders. Was this you by any chance???

...and that stretch of road had a solid white line too boot. I was a few bikes lengths in front of that gob****e.

I'm off to the Motors forum to give out about BMW drivers.:rolleyes:

Harrybelafonte

The tax man wrote: »

...and that stretch of road had a solid white line too boot. I was a few bikes lengths in front of that gob****e.

I'm off to the Motors forum to give out about BMW drivers.:rolleyes:

They'll all agree with you

MadHatter

copacetic wrote: »

clearly a runner judging by the adidas series shirt, also spot the full boards kit!

^^ That's me in the full boards kit up there. I find it a bit concerning that the guy behind me in the yellow jersey appears to be checking out my legs! Nothing to see there mate, I don't even shave them.

@OP I think you're over-reacting. It's was a fun day out and some people got a bit over excited and neglecting some rules of the road. However, as mentioned it was a marshalled event with a garda escort for a significant chunk of it so anybody who found themselves in the middle of it probably ignored the direction of a garda or marshall and has only themselves to blame.

Would echo the comments on the BMW driver, repeatedly overtaking on a continuous white line and then pulling in on top of cyclists when something was coming from other direction. Crazy driving, and only luck that it didn't end up in an accident. He/she wasn't the only one mind, a couple of other cars had come through earlier doing similar.