Should Dublin 'throw' the Leinster C'Ship in 2010?

The Davestator

Fairly self explanatory and apologies if its been discussed before.

Should Dublin forget about Leinster next year and get toughened up in the back door games next year?

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

DARK-KNIGHT

The Davestator wrote: »

Fairly self explanatory and apologies if its been discussed before.

Should Dublin forget about Leinster next year and get toughened up in the back door games next year?

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

THEY WONT NEED TO THROW IT AS THEY WONT WIN IT!

cill dara abu

this thread is crazy do you actually know anything about the game?

Banter Joe

The Davestator wrote: »

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

I don't think that's the reason they're getting hammered in August.

The Davestator

raycaulwell wrote: »

THEY WONT NEED TO THROW IT AS THEY WONT WIN IT!

cill dara abu

this thread is crazy do you actually know anything about the game?

I agree, Kildare are on the up and will be tough next year, and yes, I'd like to think I know a little about the game i've been playing & watching for 20 years!

DARK-KNIGHT

The Davestator wrote: »

I agree, Kildare are on the up and will be tough next year, and yes, I'd like to think I know a little about the game i've been playing & watching for 20 years!

sorry just thought this was a mad topic! no offense meant!

but dublin need to stay winning in my opinion otherwise a dry run could follow and noone wants that to happen their county

homerjay2005

the obvious answer is NO, but it has merits. it will never happen though, there are too many risks. Kerry, Galway and Tyrone have all won it throught the Back door, however, these 3 teams, are/were exceptional teams. Dublin do not fall into that category.

What Dublin need is to rid themselves of the baggage that goes with playing for Dublin. Coming out and warming up in front of the canal end, blocking out the hill, is their first step. There are many many more, getting better footballers is another.

The draw is crucial. Take Cork and Kerry for example. Cork and Tyrone are both unbeaten. Cork have the most difficult team possible in their way to get to the final. Kerry, beaten by cork, have come in on the "easier" side of the draw. The risks are too big, your best aim to win all your games, BUT learn from them. Dublin learned nothing from the fact that Kildare scored 18 points from play.

In essence, there are pros and cons, but Dublin got a poor draw this year and loosing next year could mean kerry/cork and tyrone in the 1/4s instead. Right now, Dublin could have gotten Donegal or Meath and beaten them and be in the Semi against Mayo for example. Its the luck of the draw, thats what Championship is all about.

Atomic Pineapple

raycaulwell wrote: »

sorry just thought this was a mad topic! no offense meant!

but dublin need to stay winning in my opinion otherwise a dry run could follow and noone wants that to happen their county

I agree, any team will want to win there province and take on teams from the qualifiers in the quarter finals.

I dont believe Dublin's problems lie with there easy route through Leinster, Kildare gave them a good game this year and they would have learned from mistakes against Meath too.

Rowley Birkin QC

It would be a better idea to sort out the complete lack of discipline in the Dublin camp before they consider doing anything else.

Royal Seahawk

draffodx wrote: »

I agree, any team will want to win there province and take on teams from the qualifiers in the quarter finals.

I dont believe Dublin's problems lie with there easy route through Leinster, Kildare gave them a good game this year and they would have learned from mistakes against Meath too.

Exactly. Winning a game by two points and winning another by three isn't having it 'too easy'.

The Davestator

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the obvious answer is NO, but it has merits. it will never happen though, there are too many risks. Kerry, Galway and Tyrone have all won it throught the Back door, however, these 3 teams, are/were exceptional teams. Dublin do not fall into that category.

What Dublin need is to rid themselves of the baggage that goes with playing for Dublin. Coming out and warming up in front of the canal end, blocking out the hill, is their first step. There are many many more, getting better footballers is another.

The draw is crucial. Take Cork and Kerry for example. Cork and Tyrone are both unbeaten. Cork have the most difficult team possible in their way to get to the final. Kerry, beaten by cork, have come in on the "easier" side of the draw. The risks are too big, your best aim to win all your games, BUT learn from them. Dublin learned nothing from the fact that Kildare scored 18 points from play.

In essence, there are pros and cons, but Dublin got a poor draw this year and loosing next year could mean kerry/cork and tyrone in the 1/4s instead. Right now, Dublin could have gotten Donegal or Meath and beaten them and be in the Semi against Mayo for example. Its the luck of the draw, thats what Championship is all about.

Good post. I wasn't trying to be contiversiol but I just feel that we have good players and what we are doing is not working. I agree, that it wont happen, but next year, I wont be too upset if we are beaten in Leinster as it will give us a chance to try something different.

Maybe I'm just clutching at straws!!

Flukey

They certainly shouldn't "throw" the Leinster championship. A team should go out to win every match they play in. Dublin need to take the league more seriously and get to the latter stages of it. Then they'll be playing serious teams who are near championship levels of performance. It is in the league that they can travel around the country and play in different venues and play some good teams, not the qualifiers. You can use the league for experimenting with players, but you should also be trying to win every game. Players need experience of playing, but they also need to get into a winning habit. Experiencing defeat can be good for a team too, but a team has to go out and try to win every match.

alrudd

No just no.For 1 it would be considered a big shock in the country if Dublin were to lose there Leinster crown and 2 they still would have to come through,possibly face Tyrone or Cork or even Mayo and still be out of the Championship.So the simple answer is no,Dublin should definately not throw the Leinster Championship.There just not good enough yet to compete with the top 3 or 4 teams in the country to win the AI.

Gingy

No team should ever/would ever throw an important championship match. Winning Leinster/going through the back door is irrelevant, Dublin just aren't up to the required standard to seriously compete with the big boys in the important matches, might as well have something to celebrate by winning Leinster!

Het-Field

raycaulwell wrote: »

THEY WONT NEED TO THROW IT AS THEY WONT WIN IT!

cill dara abu

this thread is crazy do you actually know anything about the game?

Considering what transpired today, I think Kildare stand as the 3rd team of Leinster in 2009. Meath are All Ireland Semi Finalists, while Dublin are Leinster Champions. Kildare have beaten Wexford, Laois, and Wicklow.

All the moral victories in the world wont convince me to put Kildare as Leinster's number one. They are not, and they will have to take out Meath and Dublin first.

Had Dublin had a Meath style passage to the semi, then throwing the Leinster's would clearly be valuable. However, I agree with Ray's second point. Dublin's heads drop when they are in a losing position. In 2004, it was clear that Dublin were out of the running regardless of how many small teams they beat on the road.

aDeener

the single most stupidest post i have ever read. you do realise the reason dublin arent progressing further than q-final is that they simply arent good enough to??:rolleyes: nothing to do with having it easy in leinster, talk about clutching at straws

Erin Go Brath

The Davestator wrote: »

Fairly self explanatory and apologies if its been discussed before.

Should Dublin forget about Leinster next year and get toughened up in the back door games next year?

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

Ridiculous idea. Deliberately losing games is probably the dumbest idea ever of trying to improve a team.

Marse

The Davestator wrote: »

Fairly self explanatory and apologies if its been discussed before.

Should Dublin forget about Leinster next year and get toughened up in the back door games next year?

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

Have to say, I've thought the same thing myself. I was thinking during the Kildare game that it wouldn't be the worse thing if we didn't win this game. Look how Meath have got stronger as the championship progressed as have Kerry.

plasmaguy

They should put out a development squad in Leinster and hold back the other players for the back door.

There's nothing to be gained from winning Leinster, it has become a meaningless competition in the last 10 years.

I truely believe the do or die knockout system in the backdoor builds charachter in teams and that charachter increases with each game.

But winning easy Leinster titles seems to convince Dublin and their supporters they are world beaters.

flahavaj

They could just as easily get a top team in the qualifiers, Kerry even! Putting your faith in getting handy draws in te qualifiers is a recipe for disaster. Blaming the system for Dublin's woes is misguided, the simple truth is they aren't good enough and "throwing" matches isn't gonna help one bit.

aDeener

flahavaj wrote: »

They could just as easily get a top team in the qualifiers, Kerry even! Putting your faith in getting handy draws in te qualifiers is a recipe for disaster. Blaming the system for Dublin's woes is misguided, the simple truth is they aren't good enough and "throwing" matches isn't gonna help one bit.

and should see them getting "thrown" out of the championship altogether should they try something as stupid as that

tomdadude

This thread is ridiculous.

Will Dublin fans just accept their team isn't good enough.Another thread thinks Dublin, oh sorry provincial winners, should get another chance if they loose.

NufcNavan

tomdadude wrote: »

This thread is ridiculous.

Will Dublin fans just accept their team isn't good enough.Another thread thinks Dublin, oh sorry provincial winners, should get another chance if they loose.

It's just pathetic really. Provincial champions should be the best team from each province. No excuses when it comes to the quarter final. Cork and Tyrone got on with it, if Dublin can't, then nobody should complain.

Drumpot

Not really sure of the posters intentions with his comments on "throwing" a game in the leinster champo game. . .

That said, I have been saying for 2 SEASONs that as a Dub I wouldnt be that upset if dublin lost a game in Leinster.

Their one great achilles heal has been the fact that they havent been able to beat teams out of Leinster. Tyrone and Kerry have benefited greatly out of playing teams in differant provinces through the back door . .


That said . . .

Dublins problems run deeper then that.. We have no leaders, appear to have players with little character or hunger to dig deep when it matters. . Some might blame management , but I think if you arent up for a game against Kerry you simply dont deserve to wear a Dub Jersey. You shouldnt need a coach of any sort to "motivate" you for a game like that . .

Dublin have come up short in the last few seasons because their mental application has been poor at best, relying on individuals to carry them across the line (like Shane Ryans heroics against Mayo).

Never ever ever go into a game to lose. I think that perhaps what the poster meant was "would it be in Dublins interest if they didnt win Leinster next season". That would of been a more appropriate statement. It shouldnt be the case, but perhaps an early defeat, followed by a nice run in the back door wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.

I was saying to a friend today that perhaps Gillers needs to say that next season is a right off while he scowers the county for players. Play a near completely new team in the league and champo, trying out new players, dropping ones who have been living off seasons gone by reputations. . Sort of say to yourself that next seasons a right off and that by 2011 we would hope to of found a few gems.

Odds on it happening . . 0%

Drumpot

NufcNavan wrote: »

It's just pathetic really. Provincial champions should be the best team from each province. No excuses when it comes to the quarter final. Cork and Tyrone got on with it, if Dublin can't, then nobody should complain.

Ur point ????

Drumpot

tomdadude wrote: »

This thread is ridiculous.

Will Dublin fans just accept their team isn't good enough.Another thread thinks Dublin, oh sorry provincial winners, should get another chance if they loose.

not all Dublin fans think this way . .

and for your information alot of impartial people think its a bit unfair on provincial winners that they dont get a 2nd chance like the rest . .

Your sad comments are like the ones that suggest that the dubs are the only games that are delayed because we all leave the pub too late .

Quite simply, the dubs are scrutinised more then any team, simply because we have a quarter of the population in our county and the rest of ye suffer from "small guy syndrome".

I dont think we are great or superior in any way to other teams or countys . .

Then again, perhaps thats because I dont have an inferiority complex like some in those non Dublin countys that enjoy our defeats so so much . .

NufcNavan

Drumpot wrote: »

Ur point ????

Fairly clear what my point is, but obviously not for some. Dublin cannot blame winning the Leinster title for their poor form in the knockout stages. There.

Rainbowrapids

Definitely!

I'm afraid though that after last week's performance and Meath's performance today they might not win it even if they try.

Poor old Dubs, they must feel awful at the moment.

mufc4lfe

Yer just not good enough lads.Dublin had their biggest game in years last monday and they didnt produce the goods for the simple reason they never had anything.Yes leinster is not a strong province compared to the others bar the ever improving kildare but this is no excuse.If your good your good simple as that.Throw leinster championship next year?:pac: work away lads......
UP THE KINGDOM!!!

ky-4-sam09

tomdadude

Drumpot wrote: »

not all Dublin fans think this way . .

and for your information alot of impartial people think its a bit unfair on provincial winners that they dont get a 2nd chance like the rest . .

Your sad comments are like the ones that suggest that the dubs are the only games that are delayed because we all leave the pub too late .

Quite simply, the dubs are scrutinised more then any team, simply because we have a quarter of the population in our county and the rest of ye suffer from "small guy syndrome".

I dont think we are great or superior in any way to other teams or countys . .

Then again, perhaps thats because I dont have an inferiority complex like some in those non Dublin countys that enjoy our defeats so so much . .

Well if that's the case then why hasn't a Mayo person started a "Should we throw the Connacht Championship" thread?

Dublin people seem to be blaming their Leinster Championship victories for their defeats in the All Ireland series.

flanzer

I don't think the OP meant 'throw', I think he meant 'blood some up-and-comings'

Fergie, Wenger, Rafa and Chelsea do it every year in the FA Cup and League Cup across the water

GAAman

tomdadude wrote: »

Well if that's the case then why hasn't a Mayo person started a "Should we throw the Connacht Championship" thread?

Dublin people seem to be blaming their Leinster Championship victories for their defeats in the All Ireland series.

Well i have NEVER blamed our Leinster wins for our poor performance and i wont start anytime soon

On topic i have actually thought this myself and can see the OP's point, if we were to lose Leinster there would be more hunger and a bigger drive to do better with the only other competition but the fact remains whether Dublin win the Leinster or not, there are too many "me feiners" on that team and that is something that has been there under THREE managers now and does not look like it is gonna change anytime soon

I have said this time and time again that the reason the tyrones and the kerrys are winning sam is they have panels of 15 whereas Dublin have 15 players, until this changes we will be always bridesmaids and never brides

The Davestator

I'm the OP

Good debate here and some good points for and against. Maybe using the word 'throw' wasn't the best word and as others have said, maybe blood younger players etc. There are a lot of great players playing for intermeidate and even junior clubs at present. Throw them in for the entire league and see what happens.

Still, I wont be too upset if Dublin lose a game in Leinster next year, as we need to get tougher.

Drumpot

Think thats the trouble some of our cousins from the sticks are having . .

Dubs arent suggesting we simply lie down a lose and Leinster title. They are asking if it might be more beneficial if Dublin didnt win Leinster and got some games against more opposition outside of Leinster .

Kerry and Tyrone have won all irelands doing it both ways, the experience they have over every county is priceless.

Dublin have the look of a team that believes the hype surrounding it. Couple of back door games might bring them down to earth!

parkerpen

Yes. Take a leaf out of the Kerry manual on how to win the All-Ireland through the backdoor.

Drumpot

parkerpen wrote: »

Yes. Take a leaf out of the Kerry manual on how to win the All-Ireland through the backdoor.

Id prefer to take a leaf out of the Tyrone manuel . They understand the term "humble".

If we go the Kerry way we have to get used to kissing our own asses to congradulate ourselves for being so super.

We would need to up our smugness by at least 1 million percent.

We could only go to croker on all Ireland Final day ! !

And then we would need to get the biggest cringeworthy numpty from our county to work on the Sunday game and talk complete Tosh . .

Theres only so far we would go for a Sam ! !

tomdadude

Drumpot wrote: »

Id prefer to take a leaf out of the Tyrone manuel . They understand the term "humble".

If we go the Kerry way we have to get used to kissing our own asses to congradulate ourselves for being so super.

We would need to up our smugness by at least 1 million percent.

We could only go to croker on all Ireland Final day ! !

And then we would need to get the biggest cringeworthy numpty from our county to work on the Sunday game and talk complete Tosh . .

Theres only so far we would go for a Sam ! !

I find that very funny.The whole country is still hearing about Dublin's 1995 triumph.If Dublin won it as often as Kerry we'd never hear the end of it.

Drumpot

tomdadude wrote: »

I find that very funny.The whole country is still hearing about Dublin's 1995 triumph.If Dublin won it as often as Kerry we'd never hear the end of it.

From who exactly do you think you hear this ? ? ? . . .

Perhaps you mistake Dubs talking about 95' with the media. The same media that hypes Dublin up more then any team (to the annoyance of most of us!). Dont blame our county for the Crap thats written in the rag papers of this country !

onemorechance

Get out of Croke Park! Dublin playing a few games on the smaller pitches around the country won't give teams like Kerry such big lift when they reach Croke Park for the first time! It's easier to play on the bigger pitch. Dublin's true potential would be better assessed and achieved with a few non-Croker championship games.

Spiritoftheseventies

The Davestator wrote: »

Fairly self explanatory and apologies if its been discussed before.

Should Dublin forget about Leinster next year and get toughened up in the back door games next year?

It seems crazy but Dublin are having it too easy in Leinster and then get hammered in early August for the last few years.

absolutely not.

tomdadude

Drumpot wrote: »

From who exactly do you think you hear this ? ? ? . . .

Perhaps you mistake Dubs talking about 95' with the media. The same media that hypes Dublin up more then any team (to the annoyance of most of us!). Dont blame our county for the Crap thats written in the rag papers of this country !

I am talking about Dublin based media.So the crap is coming from Dublin people.There's no mistake.That's who I hear the hype from.

I know all Dublin people aren't like that but you can see how it satisfies people when Dublin loose after reading the latest "Dubs For Sam" headline in the Sunday paper.

Spiritoftheseventies

parkerpen wrote: »

Yes. Take a leaf out of the Kerry manual on how to win the All-Ireland through the backdoor.

Kerry haven't won this year's all Ireland yet!

GAAman

Drumpot wrote: »

Id prefer to take a leaf out of the Tyrone manual. They understand the term "humble".

They do in my arséhole! What do you reckon those three stars are on the back of their jerseys are for

Drumpot

GAAman wrote: »

They do in my arséhole! What do you reckon those three stars are on the back of their jerseys are for

Put simply . . I have met Kerry and Tyrone fans on the back of defeats to them and I have found the Tyrone folk to be certainly more gracious and humble . .

Of course all teams have their fair weather smugheads. Just seems that in Kerry they breed them ! !

Drumpot

tomdadude wrote: »

I am talking about Dublin based media.So the crap is coming from Dublin people.There's no mistake.That's who I hear the hype from.

I know all Dublin people aren't like that but you can see how it satisfies people when Dublin loose after reading the latest "Dubs For Sam" headline in the Sunday paper.

Let me get this straight . .

You accept that your original point (on the whole country having to listen about 1995 etc) was actually referring to the media harping on about the Dubs and their great success's.

And you feel that its a fair reason why Dub FANS should be tarnished with this stigmata of arrogance ? ! !

One thing that should be pointed out is that not all columnists in these rags are from Dublin . .

dats_right

1. let's not run away with ourselves thinking Meath are up to much just because they are AI semi-finalists because they're not (so where Wexford last year-remember them?). Remember Meath haven't beaten Dublin in Championship for 8 years.

The fact of the matter, that whatever problems exist in Leinster football, Connacht football is gone to the dogs altogether. Galway beaten by a poor Donegal team, Roscommon hockeyed (yet again) by Mayo, and Mayo being beaten by a very limited Meath team who are at best 3rd in pecking order in Leinster.

2. Dublin have been very unlucky in every single year's draw since time immemorial. Okay, Dublin suffered humiliating defeats in the last 2 campaigns by Tyrone and Kerry, albeit by two exceptional teams with points to prove after being written off by virtually everybody.

But let's look at the record: In '08 Dubs beaten by Tyrone who won sam, in '07 Dubs beaten by Kerry who won Sam, in '06 Dubs beaten by Mayo (AI finalists) in a freakish game, in '05 beaten by Tyrone who won Sam, in '04 beaten by Kerry who won Sam, in '03 beaten by Armagh (AI finalists), in '02 beaten by Armagh who won Sam, in '09 beaten by Kerry who...???

So in the last 8 Championships Dublin have been beaten by the winner on 5 occassions and by the beaten finalist on 2 and this year barring Meath beating Kerry will be at the very least finalists again. So it's not like we're being beaten by muck teams or anything, in actual fact, barring Kerry and Tyrone we have been the most consistent performers of the past decade.

So to rubbish Dublin based on a bad performance and a superb performance by Kerry is ridiculous. Listen, Dublin yet again got the toughest draw, I mean there were quite a few weak links in the draw, such as Meath, Mayo, Donegal and even Kildare to some extent! Dubs would undoubtedly have taken any of those teams.

The bottom line is that the 3 best teams in the country at present are Cork, Tyrone and Kerry with Dublin a bit back in fourth and others a good bit back again. Slag us of all you like that's the reality of the situation.

3. Dublin aren't that far away from AI winning standard either, but there are big problem areas, such as; complete lack of any high quality full backs, need another decent half back to play alongside Griffin and Cahill, midfield this year was a farce McConnell and Magee wouldn't get a game for Leitrim! They're just not up to standard and should be disgarded, Whelan and Ryan are still the best we have at least one of these should have started every game and been the mainstay of midfield. Our forwards aren't really a problem with the top class players with the likes of the Brogans, Keaney and even Jayo although there's always room for improvement and we could always do with another solid forward.

4. Another problem with being Dublin is that we can never come from under the radar and catch a team on the bounce or by surprise the way other teams can because of the 31 v 1 thing (most hated team in the country, etc) and the media hype. It's also a fact every team who plays us will always up their performance levels that extra few % for no other reason than it is the Dubs and wanting to be beaten by anybody else but Dublin. For example, Kerry were travelling in first gear (almost reverse at times) in the qualifiers and then all of a sudden 82,000 people and facing blue in Croker, they notch it up and can up it to fourth gear all of a sudden. If Dublin had disguised themselves as Sligo or Longford or something I have no doubt that we could have caught them on the hop. It's a definite fact that other teams do not have this 'lets beat/put it up to the dubs' factor in every game they play.

5. In answer to the actual question itself regarding throwing Leinster, I would say most certainly not. I would however suggest that we target the league as a serious competition this year for a change and target winning it or making the final at least. The dubs teams of the early-mid 1990's enjoyed good success in the league (winning a couple of titles) and a strong campaign now can only bolster confidence and sharpness.

TomMc

When you think about it, Dublin play virtually no championship matches outside of Croke Park. If they lose to the better teams in their own back yard, I wouldn't fancy their chances down the country on a smaller pitch and with fewer fans to cheer them on. Their athletism / greater fitness levels help them out on the wide open spaces of Croker against weaker teams, but on smaller, tighter pitches, natural skill and technical ability as a footballer tends to win through. So the playoffs may not be the Dubs cup of tea either.

The backdoor is only a great thing when you come through it and have the benefit of hindsight. Cork, Tyrone, Kerry and Meath left. Two provincial winners still in the hunt, two gone. Of 28 teams in the back door (omitting the few that don't get a 2nd chance really), only two remain. It is not the easier route. You could draw one of the better Ulster or Munster teams, not the minnows just as easily. Funnily enough both Kerry and Meath have had an easy enough path, but it is russian roulette to a certain extent. Tyrone and Kerry do not really mind so much if they lose in their province but this doesn't stop them from wanting/trying to win every match. They see the play offs as a necessary evil if they have an off day in their provincial championships and pay the price. A second life so to speak, and value it for the opportunities it brings. It is as much about your outlook. The teams that embrace the playoffs tend to do well in it, taking one game at a time. The teams that fear it or fear losing and having a long summer on the sidelines watching everyone else tend to go a cropper early on.

I think Kildare and Meath will give the Dubs more competition next year (at last), so who knows the Dubs might have to go down that route anyway.

brandon_flowers

I read where Pat Gilroy never once discussed last years mauling to Tyrone with this years panel. I know Gilroy missed a few donkeys in the dressing room but an elephant is inexcusable. Meath and Kildare will give Dublin enough of it next year anyway.

tomdadude

Drumpot wrote: »

Let me get this straight . .

You accept that your original point (on the whole country having to listen about 1995 etc) was actually referring to the media harping on about the Dubs and their great success's.

And you feel that its a fair reason why Dub FANS should be tarnished with this stigmata of arrogance ? ! !

One thing that should be pointed out is that not all columnists in these rags are from Dublin . .

Well of course I meant the media said it.How would the whole country hear it if it was said elsewhere.

Just look at this thread.That particular Dublin fan seems to think that Dublin keep loosing because they keep winning Leinster.

Drumpot

tomdadude wrote: »

Well of course I meant the media said it.How would the whole country hear it if it was said elsewhere.

Just look at this thread.That particular Dublin fan seems to think that Dublin keep loosing because they keep winning Leinster.

I dont think they believe its only because they keep winning leinster.

Their point is that in the last 5 years Dublin have had little or no decent challenge in Leinster which has done them no favours in the latter rounds when they come up against battle hardened teams.

Many believe that the Dublin panel start to believe some of the hype thats been surrounding their leinster titles. While it might be a bit unfair to put this label around their knecks, their performances in their last two champo games that they lost suggest otherwise.

Getting out of croke park, going to differant grounds, gets them out of their comfort Zone and makes them have to adapt to differant styles and quality of football. As long as they play in the Leinster championship most of their games will be played in Croker for finance reasons.