Strength vs Technique

Martin Walker

Does the old Technique beats Strength thing still apply to modern MMA?
Back in the day much smaller BJJ guys could and would beat the bigger guys. But with modern athletes is it still the same or does the Strength vs Technique argument only matter in the same weight divisions?

After reading the thread the other day about WSM Marius reportedly moving to MMA i went to the gym and picked on the biggest guy there. This new dude at our gym is a huge man. Bodybuilder and Powerlifter. And hes a Roid head. Hes came to us to learn MMA but not to compete, he dosnt want to get smaller just better conditioned and learn some skills to boot.
Now this guy is strong and is easily bigger than the 120kgs HW limit.
I float around 80kgs but have been training MMA for about 6-7 years. And im by no means the strongest guy in the club or even the fittest.
So in he came and i thought right he walks around like hes carrying a couple of T.Vs under each arm so he mustnt be that flexable, big biceps. Thats Arm Bar territory. Also hes big shoulders to me that says Kimuras from the bottom. Awesome, ill let him take me down ill pull guard wait for him to spaz out and take an arm. Done. It didnt work out that way. I got his arms a few times but the sheer strength of the guy stopped me from putting them on. Shattered. In the end i had to sweep him take mount give him some space till he turned his back and sunk in the RNC.

It got me thinking about the old argument. Fair enough my know how to sink the choke done the buisness but if i couldnt get a choke what would i have done?

My point is i think that the Technique beats Strength idea only works if you are in the same weight division. Or even close.
Please discuss

Tones69

Here is my little take on it. Technique will beat strength to a certain extent,it depends how much of each one you and he has! Also u are forgetting stamina, he might have plenty of energy for 2-3 mins but after that id be surprised if he isnt shattered after it!
Ive been weightlifting for about 8 years, was about 110kg there before i started training mma in january,im fairly flexible so that isnt a problem but my fitness was shocking,id be wrecked after a few mins where my strength would pretty much play no part..I was pretty much the biggest guy there,average weight there was deffo under 80kg so i said feck that i may concentrate on conditioning.
So right now and for the past couple months ive been weighing 97-98kg , to be honest ive never felt better,sure most of my clothes dont really fit me anymore but i feel 5 times fitter and i havent really lost much strength so it was well worth it.

IMO you need it all, lads who say size means nothing are full of sh*t, lads who say size is everything are also full of sh*t
Gassed is gassed at the end of the day no matter what size you are, a big man who is just as fit and skillful as the smaller man, i know who id bet on and i know which i would rather be

Raze_them_all

Martin Walker wrote: »

Does the old Technique beats Strength thing still apply to modern MMA?
Back in the day much smaller BJJ guys could and would beat the bigger guys. But with modern athletes is it still the same or does the Strength vs Technique argument only matter in the same weight divisions?

After reading the thread the other day about WSM Marius reportedly moving to MMA i went to the gym and picked on the biggest guy there. This new dude at our gym is a huge man. Bodybuilder and Powerlifter. And hes a Roid head. Hes came to us to learn MMA but not to compete, he dosnt want to get smaller just better conditioned and learn some skills to boot.
Now this guy is strong and is easily bigger than the 120kgs HW limit.
I float around 80kgs but have been training MMA for about 6-7 years. And im by no means the strongest guy in the club or even the fittest.
So in he came and i thought right he walks around like hes carrying a couple of T.Vs under each arm so he mustnt be that flexable, big biceps. Thats Arm Bar territory. Also hes big shoulders to me that says Kimuras from the bottom. Awesome, ill let him take me down ill pull guard wait for him to spaz out and take an arm. Done. It didnt work out that way. I got his arms a few times but the sheer strength of the guy stopped me from putting them on. Shattered. In the end i had to sweep him take mount give him some space till he turned his back and sunk in the RNC.

It got me thinking about the old argument. Fair enough my know how to sink the choke done the buisness but if i couldnt get a choke what would i have done?

My point is i think that the Technique beats Strength idea only works if you are in the same weight division. Or even close.
Please discuss

Seems to me that technique won out in your experiment!!

I think nowdays people are training alot harder and better, everything has increased strength, flexibilty, stamina more importantly technique of bigger guys. Back in the day the technique of the smaller guys would win out as the big guys had no clue what to do once they were on the ground. These days fighters train in all aspects of mma thus giving them at least a passable level of technique in all aspects.

Martin Walker

It did but at the end of the day a chokes a choke no matter how big your opponent its. It theres no blood going to the brain its nap time.
Its the busting my balls to twist his arm off only for him to hold strong and nothing was happening.

Raze_them_all

Martin Walker wrote: »

It did but at the end of the day a chokes a choke no matter how big your opponent its. It theres no blood going to the brain its nap time.
Its the busting my balls to twist his arm off only for him to hold strong and nothing was happening.

Ah but your superior technique told you to go back to the well, you sweeped a guy who was maybe 40-50 kg's heavier and got him to give up his back for the choke. If strength was enough once you sweeped him he should theoretically been able to keep you held down or thrown you off him, if that makes sense?

Roper

Strength should be a platform for technique.

_oveless

Generally isn't using chokes the preferred strategy against a significantly stronger opponent rather than using joint locks? It sounds like the theory was proven to be true.

roo1981

Strength beats technique only if both competitors are at a similar level. For instance, I'd fully expect anyone with a bit of experience (say decent blue up) to trash a much stronger newbie (even up to 30-50kg heavier) with relative ease-mainly using good positioning and bodyweight to wear them out before finishing.

The main reason being, newbies tend to use a lot of energy trashing about to escape bad positions, and even when they get good position, tend go ape**** looking for the finish. If a big guy starts trashing about, from my experience they gas really fast, making submitting them just a matter of being patient. I read in Matt Hughes book that he tapped out Brock Lesnar the first time Lesnar trained in Miletichs camp (with the same sub too, the RNC-theres a reason they call it the Lion Killer in Brazil ). I dont think he'd pull that off now somehow

Now say the stronger guy isnt such a noob, say if hes a decent blue and going up against someone thats a purple, or even brown-strength really becomes a factor, cause a big strong blue belt will know how to use his bodyweight as well as his strength to both deliver a whupping and to power out of subs. Once they know not to spaz out they become a problem.

If you get two similar level guys going at it, one with a slight technique advantage, but with a large strength\conditioning gap, I'd take the bigger, stronger guy every time. BJ and GSP is a prime example.