What's Wrong With Dublin Football?!

Hola_Bola

It's astonishing to think that out of a population of 1.5 million, Dublin are unable to pick 15 players to win an All-Ireland every year. Yet again, Dublin have bowed out of the Championship but if the same players are selected for next year, it will be more heartbreak, here is what I think are the problems with football in Dublin today:

1) The Management.

Let's face it, we can't blame Pat Gilroy for recent failures, although his tactics aren't great as Dennis Bastick's natural position is not in defence and Brian Cullen has always showed more promise as a forward rather than a midfielder. A new manager has come in, but the same Godfathers of Dublin GAA remain behind-the-scenes pulling the strings. I'm talking about the back room staff and the appropriate authorities. Micky Whelan has had his fair share of failures so why is he even on the coaching panel? For far too long now, there has been a political power struggle within the Dublin camp. Players from Pillar's tenure had such an influence in team selection that they were literally guaranteed their starting place year after year based on their name and not their current form. Has nobody even noticed that the backbone of the early 2000's team remains to this day? The same backbone that failed to win an All-Ireland in 15 years? It's time for change. The present players just aren't good enough and I for one, refuse to believe that there aren't better footballers playing in the 50 odd clubs dotted throughout the Capital. Names that spring to mind are Cian O' Sullivan (U21 captain), Kevin Nolan and Barny Rocks son, Dean; yet, these players may never get a look in, why? Why isn't Paddy Christie in there getting his hands dirty with the current players? Why aren't club games being attended by scouts regularly? Currently, it's a wink and nod type of underhanded game that needs to be addressed if Dublin are to progress.

The shadiness must stop, I expect seeing a number of Vincent's regulars on the panel has nothing to do with Pat Gilroys connections with the club either, even though Crokes are a far better team with better skilled footballers? Hmm...

2. The Media.

I wish the newspapers and television people would see that, although creating massive previews is great for promotion, it works against the team too - you don't see Colm Cooper plastered all over billboards. It's difficult to hide away from it because people in the city seem to believe that Dublin some how are deserving of an All-Ireland title and that it's just a matter of time because it's the capital, but you're only as good as you play. The players start to believe their own hype and that's when things fall apart. Expectations become too high. People need to keep their heads out of the clouds until the business end at least so no more celebrity status until Sam McGuire has been neatly tucked away in the casing.

It also adds a huge incentive to the opposition to raise their game for Dublin because of this. Why give motivation to the opposing players?

3. Grass Roots.

Children in Dublin lean more towards British soccer than GAA. To this end, youth in the Capital have a greater understanding and interest in the Premier League than the GAA season. Perhaps that's why Dublin receive such an uproar in fans come June (because the soccer season ends). Perhaps the lure of big money overseas sees young would-be players turning up at soccer practice rather than their local GAA club on Saturday morning.

The Wayne Rooney's & Steven Gerrard's of this world will always have a head start compared to the Ciaran Whelan's & Alan Brogan's in the city and the children that do get involved quickly drop out because of other domestic and/or resposibilities in their life.

A far better scheme for development at grassroots needs to be addressed and some incentive of some kind offered for future stars to keep the kids motivated.

4. The Club Scene.

Many of the 32 counties inter-county senior panel footballers live/work in Dublin and most are connected to Dublin GAA clubs. Because of this, several key players for other counties are playing for your local GAA organization. Where does this leave room for young talented Dublin players coming through? Nowhere! Dublin clubs have brought home the All-Ireland Club and Leinster Club Championships in recent years and then, those very players are not selected to represent their county at inter-county level?

It may be minor, but it's this very problem that the Kerry's and Tyrone's don't have to deal with.

5. The GAA As An Organization.

The GAA's competitions are hopelessly flawed. Let's start at club level. To promote youth playing both sports, football and hurling are now played on separate weekends. This means that after the football weekend, players have no games until two weeks later (after the hurling weekend). This is wrong.

But at the senior level, things are much worse. The Championship does not accommodate for Provincial winners in their "second chance system". For Dublin, that means there has been no back-door game like there has for every other county bar Tyrone, Cork and Mayo which is not in the interest of equality regardless of how many titles a county has won.

An ancient system cannot live with the modern sporting world and the set-up needs re-organizing. A typical format where counties are split into groups would work in favour of a better tournament overall and would guarantee a county five or six games per season based on their success and not just depend on one game.


They are my thoughts on GAA in the city. Feel free to add your two cents on the matter - I would be particularly interested in seeing your line-ups for next year. Do you agree/disagree etc...

hunter164

Dublin football is run by Vincents. Simple as. Get rid of the nepotism and play the players who shoudl be on the team and not your mates.

ixus

All in all, there wasn't too much to Kerry's game plan that won them the game.

They figured out Cluxton's kick outs. Something that was eventually going to happen this season. As a Kildare man, I was seething we didn't sort it. That reduced your supply of ball to the forwards dramatically. Not only were the kick outs nuetralised, they were won uncontested by Kerry who launched an immediate attack at the full back line catching them totally unaware as this had not happened all year. Your were out of reach before you knew what happened.

Kerry's full back line attacked the ball like I haven't seen in a while. This was obviously preplanned. The Dub forwards were used to winning easy ball. Picture Bernard Brogan picking off easy points against Kildare.

So, your midfield/kickouts were neutralised. Your full back line had the equivalent of mortar shells coming on top of them and the full forward line never knew what hit them. (Didn't see Keaney throwing his weight around at all).

It was an ambush of a game. No one could or would have been prepared for that. I honestly believe that. Unfortunately for the Dubs, they don't get a second bite at the cherry. Though, I think they will next year

The club structure has little to do with things at county level. Moorefield, in Kildare have a limited amount on the panel. Portumna in hurling are reigning champs in hurling and Galway aren't winning All-Irelands. The list goes on.

Oh, and a final thing, the Dub supporters don't help the team either. Between the silence during the first half and the booing at half time, how do you expect a team to react? A lot of Dub fans are full of hot air.

hunter164

ixus wrote: »

The club structure has little to do with things at county level.

It does and I've been seeing it for years. Players that should be starting but aren't because they don't know the right people.

Mullet

People talk of a population 1.5 million to pick from but if you look at it closer this is not strictly true. There are large parts of dublin were there is no gaa activity but every pub in the same area has a soccer team linked to it.

The next time you walk to croker ask yourself what gaa club covers the north inner city? What gaa club covers the croke park area? "its not vincents. A work colleague told me of a story of a kid travelling from the city centre to the suburbs to play football because there is no local club. So the next time the gaa brag about having so many members, ask the question how many of them play the game.

I also think dublin should play more of their games outside of croker to get more battle hardened but that wont happen because it will hit the gaa's balance sheet.

I still believe that quarter final should have been played in thurles "we still wouldnt have won" but the game would of been closer.

Keep the faith

blinding

In my opinion Dublin were not fit enough. Whether they are doing too much weight training or are just overweight they loooked very bulky or was that overweight.
Kerry were much more athletic looking(without the bulk) and sharper to the ball.

Dublin have to learn from Tyrone and Kerry what kind of fitness is needed to win All-Irelands.

Dublinproud

hunter164 wrote: »

Dublin football is run by Vincents. Simple as. Get rid of the nepotism and play the players who shoudl be on the team and not your mates.

Dude with all due respect how many Vincents players were on the field on Monday? One!

Fuzzballs

Oh, and a final thing, the Dub supporters don't help the team either. Between the silence during the first half and the booing at half time, how do you expect a team to react? A lot of Dub fans are full of hot air.[/QUOTE]

Im sorry but that statement is rubbish. The Dubs are very lucky to have the biggest and most loyal fan base in the country. Only Cork and Tyrone would come near. Why should the Dubs fans not be silent when the team is getting destroyed? The Hill was trying to get the crowd going even after 25mins. The lack of response from the players on the pitch does feed back into the crowd. Its a two way thing. It was the 1st time a Dubs team have ever got booed at half time. Maybe everyone would prefer a quarter full stadium and no booing from supporters who play and support at club level. I dont think so. I dont agree with it, but i do understand why the Dubs fans were so upset and disappointed with the team.

Pride Fighter

Hola_Bola wrote: »

4. The Club Scene.

Many of the 32 counties inter-county senior panel footballers live/work in Dublin and most are connected to Dublin GAA clubs. Because of this, several key players for other counties are playing for your local GAA organization. Where does this leave room for young talented Dublin players coming through? Nowhere! Dublin clubs have brought home the All-Ireland Club and Leinster Club Championships in recent years and then, those very players are not selected to represent their county at inter-county level?

Agree with this point in particular. Clubs draft in many country players to fill key positions. As a result Dublin players dont get a look in IMO. If this was stopped, or capped to 2 or 3 non Dubs a team, Dublin football would be the richer for it. The hurlers kicked out UCD 3 or 4 years ago, UCD was full of country players. The other clubs have flourished as a result and look at the current state of Dublin hurling, there are players coming from everywhere. Dublin hurling is in a healthier state than football IMO. If we were to limit country players, it would take time to work. In the meantime I think Dublin have 3 players that are good enough to win an AI, Cluxton and the 2 Brogans. We need to find 12 other players in the meantime:o

Deise Tom

I dont think there is too much wrong with Football in dublin, but the players and fans must stop reading some of the **** that the media comes out with which blows them up. I also think there is a need to get them out of Croke Park more often in the Championship. It might do them good to play at some smaller grounds.

DARK-KNIGHT

tbh why is there a need for 4 or 5 threads to talk about dublin football can they not be merged?

keep saying this and tbh dublin fans expect too much for a seriously average team! lets face facts - dublin are not very good and i can not see them improving!

btw if the dublin fans were actually fans then they wouldnt boo their county colours! BAD FORM!!!

il bet my ass dublin wont win an all ireland in the next ten years!:D

stackerman

hunter164 wrote: »

Get rid of the nepotism

Untill the dubs get an outside manager little will change.

Trying to blame the media is in my opinion shirking responsibility, Kildare over the years have had their own share of 'Hype' as have other county teams. Players however must learn to handle this, it is part of GAA and a natural fact of being 'in the mix' towards the end of the season.
Dublin Players, management and esp county board must look into themselves now. Not look for excuses, be men and except responsibility.

At the end of the day Kerry are and were a far better team, but to emplode like that was

Hola_Bola

Another strategy that's played out is the zonal marking. Yes, there has been some success with it at club level but it's not working for Dublin. For far too long, the players looked like fish out of water and not just on Monday, this is a problem stemming from the Championship opener.

I seen Dublin players leaning off Kerry and stopping running, with the expectation of having another player continue the chase and it just didn't work. With the result, three Dublin players where running for the ball and were leaving at least two Kerry men completely and utterly open.

Players need to get tight to their markers and stay there. This is not a great tactic for the likes of Ciaran Whelan or Shane Ryan who may dominate a physically smaller guy in the crucial area of midfield, instead of chopping and changing their markers throughout.

It's something Pat Gilroy needs to address for next year. Back to the drawing board regarding the marking system.

hunter164

Dublinproud wrote: »

Dude with all due respect how many Vincents players were on the field on Monday? One!

How much of the backroom is run by them?

Dublinproud

hunter164 wrote: »

How much of the backroom is run by them?

Yeah i'll give ya that point taken

Hola_Bola

Dublinproud wrote: »

Yeah i'll give ya that point taken

Killmacud Crokes are a far superior team with great Dublin footballers, so why choose the same Vincents players next year having failed this time and proved they're just not good enough?

Mark Vaughan
Pat Burke
Johnny Magee
Ray Cosgrove
Joe Mooney
Kevin Nolan
Rory O'Carroll
Barry O'Rorke
Cian O'Sullivan

Are just a few names that spring to mind that need to be involved next year.

There is also a rising star in Luke Sweetman of Erins Isle, a physically strong African-Irish, which is every bit the athlete. These players need to be given the push.

cruiserweight

Hola_Bola wrote: »

Johnny Magee
Ray Cosgrove

Not overly familiar with the Dublin scene, but these are two players who have played in the past and do not seem to be up to the standard required if you are talking about them dramatically improving the current team

hunter164

Hola_Bola wrote: »

There is also a rising star in Luke Sweetman of Erins Isle, a physically strong African-Irish, which is every bit the athlete. These players need to be given the push.

Ah Luke, a moving mountain :pac: Went to me school, another one is Ted Furman of Ballymun.

pokerface_me

Would love to see an outside manager come in a be given a chance, i think they spent far to much time in the Gym and did not look match fit, but the big one for me is, Have you ever looked at the Dublin players body language as soon as teams go a couple of points ahead, heads drop all over the place and no leader to lift them!!!

By the way booing your County ain't gonna get you nowhere.

Hola_Bola

cruiserweight wrote: »

Not overly familiar with the Dublin scene, but these are two players who have played in the past and do not seem to be up to the standard required if you are talking about them dramatically improving the current team

Agreed, but Cossie has given us memorable moments. I wanted to add a few names in there which people knew and could relate to the kind of people Killmacud Crokes are. I agree in that the players involved in the past may not improve the current squad heaps and bounds but their is unnoticed talent in that club.

pokerface_me wrote: »

By the way booing your County ain't gonna get you nowhere.

I know but you have to understand the frustration of Hill 16. There comes a time when you can no longer just sit back and accept the shortcomings. The Hill obviously had an opinion about the performance and they let the players know about it. It just wasn't good enough. There seems to be some huge expectation from The Dubs and if you don't live up to that, they'll let you know.

Dublinproud

Hola_Bola wrote: »

Killmacud Crokes are a far superior team with great Dublin footballers, so why choose the same Vincents players next year having failed this time and proved they're just not good enough?

Mark Vaughan
Pat Burke
Johnny Magee
Ray Cosgrove
Joe Mooney
Kevin Nolan
Rory O'Carroll
Barry O'Rorke
Cian O'Sullivan

Are just a few names that spring to mind that need to be involved next year.

There is also a rising star in Luke Sweetman of Erins Isle, a physically strong African-Irish, which is every bit the athlete. These players need to be given the push.

Vaughan...i think the jury is still very much out on.For me doesnt contribute enough from open play.Ray Cosgrove is past it although gave us one almighty summer i'll never forget.Pat Burke a good club player but not inter county material his few mins against Kildare proved that to me anyways.I'm dying to see Nolan make the breakthrough! Same goes for Dean Rock and Hugh Gill.It's a damn shame Davoren got injured please God he'll come back even better next year!

Rowley Birkin QC

Discipline in the face of a huge second half odds is a huge problem in the Dublin camp going on the evidence of the last few years.

How many times have Cork hurlers been "dead and buried" but kept the head and put scores on the board instead of lashing out with dirty strokes and late tackles?

Granted it's easier to make up those scores in a short time in hurling but the principle remains the same. Having played team games all through my youth, when discipline is lacking in the face of a large comeback any chance of victory goes out the window.

The Hill certainly does not help this situation either, booing any team you are supposed to be supporting is quite simply inexcusable.

themandan6611

Hola_Bola wrote: »

Killmacud Crokes are a far superior team with great Dublin footballers, so why choose the same Vincents players next year having failed this time and proved they're just not good enough?

Mark Vaughan
Pat Burke
Johnny Magee
Ray Cosgrove
Joe Mooney
Kevin Nolan
Rory O'Carroll
Barry O'Rorke
Cian O'Sullivan

Are just a few names that spring to mind that need to be involved next year.

There is also a rising star in Luke Sweetman of Erins Isle, a physically strong African-Irish, which is every bit the athlete. These players need to be given the push.

always felt that J Magee was left off too early and had a lot more to offer, in particular during the league. While he lacks pace his physcial presence has been missed badly ever since the Armagh game. I have lost count of how many teams who have run straight through our middle over the last 5 years, and whilst not as naturally gifted as Cullen I maintain that
at centre half back you need a stopper.