Best No.8 in the Northern Hemisphere.

LumpyChicken

Just looking through a couple of the threads and it was interesting to note (Especially in the World 15 thread) that a lot of people consider had Heaslip down as their preferred No.8. I definitely think he is worthy of being considered best No.8 in the Northern Hemisphere and believe based on form he could make a stab at best in the game. I know a lot of you consider Parisse to be a top notch No.8 and I agree, but I think that Heaslip has the difficult task of standing out in a Leinster team practically sparkling for all the stars it has in it, while Parisse is able to parade his superiority around a banal Italian side. But then thats just a point of view :P

anonymous_joe

Parisse, Heaslip, Harinordoquy are all quality.

Amabokke

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Just looking through a couple of the threads and it was interesting to note (Especially in the World 15 thread) that a lot of people consider had Heaslip down as their preferred No.8. I definitely think he is worthy of being considered best No.8 in the Northern Hemisphere and believe based on form he could make a stab at best in the game. I know a lot of you consider Parisse to be a top notch No.8 and I agree, but I think that Heaslip has the difficult task of standing out in a Leinster team practically sparkling for all the stars it has in it, while Parisse is able to parade his superiority around a banal Italian side. But then thats just a point of view :P

It's actually the opposite, more difficult to be so good in a weak pack. Heaslip has support at the breakdown and can concentrate on his own game.

Diabhal Beag

This season you can't look past Heaslip but Parisse was great too. Next season will be interesting to see how Heaslip gets on without Rocky

Sangre

We'll see a lot more running from Heaslip this season with Rocky gone.

Macsimus

Heaslip could possibly be called the form 8 but if Parisse or Hari had had a chance to play for the lions we might have a different view

imo to be called the best no.8 heaslip needs to have maintained his current form over a number of seasons.

Parisse's vision, handling and leadership qualities put him a cut above the rest at the moment

razorblunt

Heaslip is improving every season but Parisse is still a level above him, not to say Heaslip cant get to that level or anything.

leeroybrown

From what I've seen of them I'd have to say Parisse. He's got such a well rounded game while still managing to be exceptional at no. eight. He's also been at the top of his game for many years now. Harinordoquy appears to have returned to top form recently. Heaslip is steadily improving year on year and is building to the point where he could well be legitimately called the best no. eight in the world soon.

I agree with Sangre about the possibility of a more mobile Heaslip this season. With Elsom gone he does have the space to step up that extra level and use his running ability and hands more for Leinster this season.

Stev_o

Parrise, best in the world.

piby

I'd say Parrise. They guy is phenomonal, reads the game like a flyhalf, ball handling of a srumhalf, agilty in the air of a good second row, I'd say he's even quicker than some/most of the Italian backline. I've seen bigger 8s, quicker 8s etc. but never anyone who such a complete player like Parrise is. I have no doubt that Heaslip is a great player, and maybe one day the best 8 in the world, but he'll be a slightly different player to Parrise.

Stev_o

One telling thing is that Parrise's only 25 and has 65 caps to his name and will easily break the 100 gap if he stays injury free. Heaslip is also 25 and has only 18 caps to his name.

siltirocker

Parisse is the best no.8 in the NH. And i think thats that!

Amazotheamazing

Take away an abrasive 6 (like Ferris or Elsom) and Heaslip disappears, whereas Parisse does it despite the shortcomings of players around him. Don't think it's even close really.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Take away an abrasive 6 (like Ferris or Elsom) and Heaslip disappears, whereas Parisse does it despite the shortcomings of players around him. Don't think it's even close really.

Isn't Bergamasco usually playing beside him anyway? (Though at 7.)

He's never actually played in a bad backrow.

Amazotheamazing

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Isn't Bergamasco usually playing beside him anyway? (Though at 7.)

He's never actually played in a bad backrow.

Or scrumhalf.

Point still holds though, if Heaslip doesn't have a six who'll do the hard yards (Mr. Croft, I'm looking at you), Heaslip is the invisible man.

A lot of 8's just get on with it regardless, even supposedly lesser lights like Leamy or Wilson (a real forgotten player for Ireland), but if you shut out the 6 on Heaslip's team, you remove Heaslip from the game too, imo.

bleg

Parisse. /thread

Size=everything

I think on this season's form its got to be Heaslip. I think its great for Irish rugby to see

Heaslip being touted as the best no.8 in the world,

O'Driscoll being touted as the best 13 in the world

and

Rob Kearney being touted as the best 15 in the world

pappyodaniel

I'd go with Parisse. But who would be the best 8 in the 'world'. I have read some posts by a SA rugby fan named Amabokke, he talks about Pierre Spies like he's a rugby God. I think he's probably the most over-rated player i have ever seen, I know he's not as bad as an Adam Powell but not far off it.

There's no player in the Tri-Nations who can touch Sergio Parisse, Heaslip would be well down the pecking order behind So'aialo and Harinorduquay.

Parisse is up there but none of them stand out for me.

pappyodaniel

Emmaline Aggressive Sabotage wrote: »

Parisse is up there but none of them stand out for me.

The rugby world isn't glittering with top quality no8s at the moment.

Amabokke

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I'd go with Parisse. But who would be the best 8 in the 'world'. I have read some posts by a SA rugby fan named Amabokke, he talks about Pierre Spies like he's a rugby God. I think he's probably the most over-rated player i have ever seen, I know he's not as bad as an Adam Powell but not far off it.

There's no player in the Tri-Nations who can touch Sergio Parisse, Heaslip would be well down the pecking order behind So'aialo and Harinorduquay.

Good grief. Spies hasn't reached his full potential yet. What exactly makes a player the best in the world? Tackles? Tries?

If Parisses was a bok would I think he was excellent? yes. If Spies was Irish would you think he was the best, yes. If Heaslip was a bok would you think he was the best, no.

There is very little to distingish between Spies, Parisse, Heaslip, Palu and Rodney at the moment. They each have their strenghts and deliver good and bad performances. As to say who is the best who really knows.

Spies started as a wing for Bulls just 3 years ago and had to make a change to 8 and so far doing well in that. He plays to his strenght and pace and does what is required from a 8.

To me BOD, Kearney, Fitzgerald and Elsom are all overrated, but that's just me. Doesn't mean it's true.

Amabokke

Amabokke wrote: »

Good grief. Spies hasn't reached his full potential yet. What exactly makes a player the best in the world? Tackles? Tries?

If Parisses was a bok would I think he was excellent? yes. If Spies was Irish would you think he was the best, yes. If Heaslip was a bok would you think he was the best, no.

There is very little to distingish between Spies, Parisse, Heaslip, Palu and Rodney at the moment. They each have their strenghts and deliver good and bad performances. As to say who is the best who really knows.

Spies started as a wing for Bulls just 3 years ago and had to make a change to 8 and so far doing well in that. He plays to his strenght and pace and does what is required from a 8.

To me BOD, Kearney, Fitzgerald and Elsom are all overrated, but that's just me. Doesn't mean it's true.

The annoying thing about Spies is that he has all the talent and does some great stuff but his perenial avoidance of dirty work marks him down as a back playing in the fowards.

I would throw him on the wing or centre tbh,let him do what he does best and run.

He isnt a foward for me.

In saying that my favourite thing in rugby is seeing Spies getting the ball in space and running,he is so quick but so powerful,when he runs into people its like a bus hitting a bike.

Amabok,is pierre a common name in SA?

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Or scrumhalf.

Point still holds though, if Heaslip doesn't have a six who'll do the hard yards (Mr. Croft, I'm looking at you), Heaslip is the invisible man.

A lot of 8's just get on with it regardless, even supposedly lesser lights like Leamy or Wilson (a real forgotten player for Ireland), but if you shut out the 6 on Heaslip's team, you remove Heaslip from the game too, imo.

How do you account for his superb showing in the 3rd Lions test so?

You're talking nonsense anyway imo, he's a far better 8 than Leamy or Wilson. Has a huge workrate, constantly way up the tackle stats and very effective at the ruck, wins a couple of turnovers a game. He's achieved a hell of a lot this season and you'd think Irish fans would be delighted at unearthing such a talent but guess not.


On topic - I thought Spies was superb today, but I'm not sure he's been visible enough in some of the bigger games (Lions tests for example) to be considered best in the world yet. He's on the way though.

Edit - I forgot Worsely started the 3rd test, apologies. It's not exactly a new concept having a balanced back row though. Worsely did the dirty work so Heaslip didn't have to, that's pretty much all he did in the first tests.

Well I think we can all agree the top 4 are Parisse,Hairydonkey,Heaslip and Spies.

None stand out for me,Spies being the most athletic and Parisse being the most talented.

Amabokke

Emmaline Aggressive Sabotage wrote: »

Well I think we can all agree the top 4 are Parisse,Hairydonkey,Heaslip and Spies.

On this website.

You will find it very hard when comparing stats to exclude Rodney or Palu.

danthefan

Amabokke wrote: »

On this website.

You will find it very hard when comparing stats to exclude Rodney or Palu.

Palu has been off the boil for a while imo.

funky penguin

Don't forget the legend that is Andy Powell.

POW!

Amabokke

Amabokke wrote: »

On this website.

You will find it very hard when comparing stats to exclude Rodney or Palu.

Il include Rodders but Palu no way.

hit_it_strong

Sergio "just-give-me-the-ball-and-I'll-drop-the-goal-myself" Parisse

mikeruurds

Emmaline Aggressive Sabotage wrote: »

Amabok,is pierre a common name in SA?

Not Amabokke, but I'm a Saffa so I can answer. Pierre is relatively common.

A large part of the Afrikaans community trace their heritage back to France and the French Hugenots, so names like Jean, Francois and Pierre and not unusual.

bleg

Size=everything wrote: »

I think on this season's form its got to be Heaslip. I think its great for Irish rugby to see

Heaslip being touted as the best no.8 in the world,

O'Driscoll being touted as the best 13 in the world

and

Rob Kearney being touted as the best 15 in the world

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

up them Schteps

bleg wrote: »

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

I agree. I would have to say parise would be my choice. Espically in the 6N he was one of the best players of the tournament. It was an incredable feat considering the results of the itilian team!

danthefan

bleg wrote: »

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

Kearney has had international recognition both after last summers tour and the Lions tour. I remember the Aussie press raving about him last summer. I think it's fair to say he's seen in the upper echelon of FBs in the world now. Heaslip not so much though his 3 Lions tests clearly shows he's one of the best in Europe.

Amabokke

mikeruurds wrote: »

Not Amabokke, but I'm a Saffa so I can answer.

what?

Amazotheamazing

danthefan wrote: »

How do you account for his superb showing in the 3rd Lions test so?

I thought Worsley had a huge game in the last test, really set a marker for the rest of the backrow. He was far better than Croft and showed Heaslip can only operate with a decent 6 playing.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I thought Worsley had a huge game in the last test, really set a marker for the rest of the backrow. He was far better than Croft and showed Heaslip can only operate with a decent 6 playing.

I edited my original post a minute ago, I forgot Worsely started, sorry.

Fact remains though Croft is a fairy and Heaslip spent the first 2 tests tackling and at the bottom of rucks, he had no option because nobody else was going to do it.

funky penguin

bleg wrote: »

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

Heaslip, yes, but he's getting there. Parisse is on top IMO.

Kearney however, has been recognised internationally, notably Ireland's SH tour last year.

Size=everything

bleg wrote: »

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

Heaslip started all 3 of the Lions tests at 8 and was nominated for the RBS 6 nations player of tournament whilst Kearney was praised in the SH press on last year's tour and was one of the Lions best players. I think its safe to say they're highly regarded lol.

wixfjord

bleg wrote: »

Nobody outside Ireland is touting Heaslip or Kearney. Even in Ireland I don't know many people who would "tout" them.

Both the Kiwi and Aussie press have "touted" Kearney as one of the best fbs in the world. Id say many south africans would now say the same after the third lions test, so I dunno where your getting that from.


On the 8 issue, id say on current form heaslip, but parrise has done amazing things in a poor italian team for years. My thoughts on spies are well documented and I dont rate him as a top class 8.

But how has everyone forgotten Nick "who ate all the pies" Easter :eek: :pac:

[Jackass]

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Take away an abrasive 6 (like Ferris or Elsom) and Heaslip disappears, whereas Parisse does it despite the shortcomings of players around him. Don't think it's even close really.

Hmmmmm.............

Don't know about that...Heaslip has always been a stand out forward for Leinster...He's hitting his prime now, so maybe you've only heard of him over the last season or two since he's gotten recognition with Ireland and the Lions...but if you did know him, then you would know that he used to play in a back-row of Ciaran Potts, Keith Gleeson & Jamie Heaslip and was always the stand out forward in the Leinster forward pack....always got tries and was always making monster breaks and doing the donkey work...he was even in an extremely poor alround pack, which contained the likes of Blaney, Gissing & Williams, Green, Jowwit, all regualr starters...(feckin hell, that only 3 seasons ago....it's seems like so long ago since Leinster were that poor), but Heaslip was gaining the hype that Cian Healy would be now, and never "disapeared"....so either you've never seen him in a terrible pack before, or you're just making things up that you don't really know anything about

I still don't think he's at the same level of Parisse, but if continues to improve on the same curve he has over the last 18 months or so, he will be on of (maybe already is) if not THE best 8 in the world.

[edit] Forgot to mention as well, Last season was the first season ever that Heaslip played with a top class 6....when Leinster won the Magners League and Heaslip was outstanding all season, he had Jennings at 6...who is a top class 7, but certainly not a top 6, and certainly not the type of 6 you're saying Heaslip needs...a big ball carrying type like Ferris or Rocky...

wixfjord

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Or scrumhalf.

Point still holds though, if Heaslip doesn't have a six who'll do the hard yards (Mr. Croft, I'm looking at you), Heaslip is the invisible man.

A lot of 8's just get on with it regardless, even supposedly lesser lights like Leamy or Wilson (a real forgotten player for Ireland), but if you shut out the 6 on Heaslip's team, you remove Heaslip from the game too, imo.

Thats just wrong. How do you explain Heaslips Lions tour performance. He hasnt exactely had the cream of the number 6 crop playing with him at Leinster over the years either.