'The Potential of an All-Island Economy'

Can'tseeme

Just been reading an interesting piece by Dara Calleary on the on going work towards developing an all island economy. On this link: http://url.ie/24l0

This is some of the piece:

The Comprehensive Study on the All-Island Economy, launched by the British-Irish Inter-Governmental Conference in October 2006, setting out an ambitious range of strategies and collaborative actions aimed at maximising the competitive advantages of the island. Since restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive in May 2007, the Government has engaged constructively with Northern Ireland Ministers to agree a range of initiatives designed to boost economic activity on the island and eliminate market failure arising from the existence of the border.
We are working hard now to deliver on our shared priorities through the North/South Ministerial Council and in a range of other contacts between key decision-makers on the island. We are fortunate, in doing this, to have excellent North/South bodies like Tourism Ireland helping to brand the island so successfully overseas. And the role and strategic importance of Inter Trade Ireland, has never been greater, as it seeks, with our support,to ensure companies North and South are able to take advantage of the economic opportunities close to home in a period of global turbulence. We are putting our money where our mouth is too, even in these difficult times. At our first North South Ministerial Council meeting following restoration of the Executive two years ago, we pledged £400 million (pounds) to upgrade the A5 road to Derry and Letterkenny-for, which there was substantial progress this week-, and the A8 road from Belfast to Larne. And at another NSMC Plenary meeting earlier this month, our fourth since restoration, Ministers agreed the details of a first Government contribution of €9 million towards preparatory work, as well as procedures for future payments. We are firm in our conviction that an integrated and connected island will have the best opportunity to fulfil its undoubted and enormous potential.

We are also working to build an “Innovation Island”, one that is on the cusp of cutting-edge research and development. We are looking forward to discussing our plans for this “Innovation Island” with our Northern Ireland Executive colleagues and examining whether, together, we can make this vision a reality at home and a recognised brand abroad. In our increasingly inter-connected world, the brightest minds on both sides of our border must be given every incentive to collaborate in order to compete. That is why the Government and the Executive are each providing unprecedented sums for cross-border research and innovation, ensuring companies in both jurisdictions can make use of research excellence anywhere on the island. We are now beginning to see the fruits of all island cooperation in R&D. Significant progress has been made to date under the All Island Innovation Voucher initiative. It is very heartening, also, to learn of the steady flow of collaborative research projects that are being approved for funding under the Innovation Fund. In November last, ten programmes, involving research collaborations between Queens University Belfast, the University of Ulster and internationally recognised research centres in the South were approved for funding of £14.5 million by a panel whose members are representative of both jurisdictions. The projects approved will cover a wide range of priorities including Future Energy Systems, Mobile
Information and Communication Technologies, Major Chronic Diseases and Infections, Functional Foods, Nutrition and Bone Health, and Safe and Traceable Food.

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A welcomed piece by Dara Calleary, good to see some positive moves, getting this island to start working to it's potential. Two economies working in competition isn't going to solve the social and economic problems in Ireland.

Executive Steve

Just as long as we don't end up getting the six counties back...

graduate

In addition to the private sector aspect of things there is also the question of public sector economies. In the present debate there is much discussion of the proper relationship between Sligo hospital and Galway hospital 140km away. There is no little or no discussion on the sharing of services between Sligo and Enniskillen 66 Km away. Likewise Cavan and Monaghan hospitals are much discussed, these counties have similar situation to Fermanagh, Is there not some rationalisation possible here which would both save money and prevent people having to to travel a large distance to hospitals? Dundalk and Newry are both in the top dozen population centres in the country and 20km apart.The private sector has many facilities cinemas, shops etc which cater to people in both towns. Yet their hospitals are both downgraded and no serious attempt has been made to share resources. The list goes on and on.

A generation ago there may have been political problems preventing such rationalisation, but now there is no real political barrier, but rather a bureaucratic one of people who cannot see beyond their noses. This is a case of money being wasted to provide people with less service. Time for it to stop.

oscarBravo

Meh. I reckon a Europe-wide economy is a much more useful goal to strive for.

ei.sdraob

oscarBravo wrote: »

Meh. I reckon a Europe-wide economy is a much more useful goal to strive for.

you must be one of them New World Order "elites" so

Joey the lips

I always thought this a brilliant idea I read it before I will try see if I can find the article. The basic jist is like a commwealth as such on tourism, Transport, logistics and infrastructure,

We could have northern ireland electricity sell down here. British gas through northern ireland. Ports can compete for container traffic. Airports, although ryanair would prob drop dublin passengers in donegal. Its potential is massive and the savings to consumers massive.

It has always been muted by sinn fein by this is not an attempt at unification this is an attempt at economic building just like the lamp factory buying is cardboard boxes from the box factory next door. Both industries in one geographic area in this case ireland benefit!

ei.sdraob

Joey the lips wrote: »

I always thought this a brilliant idea I read it before I will try see if I can find the article. The basic jist is like a commwealth as such on tourism, Transport, logistics and infrastructure,

We could have northern ireland electricity sell down here. British gas through northern ireland. Ports can compete for container traffic. Airports, although ryanair would prob drop dublin passengers in donegal. Its potential is massive and the savings to consumers massive.

It has always been muted by sinn fein by this is not an attempt at unification this is an attempt at economic building just like the lamp factory buying is cardboard boxes from the box factory next door. Both industries in one geographic area in this case ireland benefit!

erm gas and electricity is already being sold between north and south

i wouldn't wish ryanair on my worst enemy :cool:

tlev

Can anyone say 'pipe-dream'. This won't ever happen. Too many old hatreds. We can't even get along with people who haven't invaded us, how are we going to do this we the English

Biggins

Meh. I reckon a Europe-wide economy is a much more useful goal to strive for.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you must be one of them New World Order "elites" so

I've suspected it!
He's a secret high ranking member of the Bilderberg Group. :pac:
RTDH is trying to currently expose him!

Terrontress

graduate wrote: »

In addition to the private sector aspect of things there is also the question of public sector economies. In the present debate there is much discussion of the proper relationship between Sligo hospital and Galway hospital 140km away. There is no little or no discussion on the sharing of services between Sligo and Enniskillen 66 Km away. Likewise Cavan and Monaghan hospitals are much discussed, these counties have similar situation to Fermanagh, Is there not some rationalisation possible here which would both save money and prevent people having to to travel a large distance to hospitals? Dundalk and Newry are both in the top dozen population centres in the country and 20km apart.The private sector has many facilities cinemas, shops etc which cater to people in both towns. Yet their hospitals are both downgraded and no serious attempt has been made to share resources.

Can you imagine a shared hospital with A&E? Nordies come in, get treated for free. The rest of us go in and get stung for €80 and get charged for the ambulance to take us there. Same with GPs, dentists etc.

Healthcare will not be possible to manage on a cross border until there is the same policy for payment at point of use.

guinnessdrinker

An all island economy makes sense. Both governments have already realised this and have began to work towards it such as in the obvious areas as tranport and tourism.

mike65

An all-Ireland economy would require and All Ireland public sector, no? All Ireland prices on infrastructure support/supplies, far fewer bureaucrats, quangos, and the like.

Sand

We already have an all-island economy...the EU common market? Free movement of labour and capital? The great thing about the EU is that its not just an all - island economy, its an all - islands economy. Wait, even better its an all-continent economy. This clearly has to be way better than an all-island economy.

The "all-island economy" nonsense is just a trojan horse.

ardmacha

Can you imagine a shared hospital with A&E? Nordies come in, get treated for free. The rest of us go in and get stung for €80 and get charged for the ambulance to take us there. Same with GPs, dentists etc.

Healthcare will not be possible to manage on a cross border until there is the same policy for payment at point of use.

This is precisely the type of trivial bureaucratic objection that is always put forward which has more to do with something bugging the objector than any real consideration of the overall issue. Medical card holders or people sent by their GP do not pay for A&E in the Republic, nor would a person from the NI on holiday etc who went to the A&E. So some people pay and some don't as it stands. GPs and dentists are largely a red herring as these are more local, but even in a GP some people pay and some don't at present and there is a cross border out of hours GP service which presently operates on this basis.

If I were ill, I would like to brought as quickly as possible by the nearest ambulance to the nearest hospital. So what if I have to pay for this while someone else gets it free.

There are serious possibilities for public expenditure economies here, while providing better services. It should not be about chip on the shoulder objections to the structure of health service charging.

We already have an all-island economy...the EU common market?

Of course we should have a European economy, a world economy, even a solar system or galactic economy. But you start somewhere and move on from there. One important feature of the entire EU project is closer links between neighbouring places in different States, in addition to other aspects which relate to the entire EU.

Joey the lips

ei.sdraob wrote: »

erm gas and electricity is already being sold between north and south

i wouldn't wish ryanair on my worst enemy :cool:

You missed my point "We" cannot buy our gas off british gas or our power from NIE. i know gas and electricity is transfered.

+1 on ryanair

Can'tseeme

oscarBravo wrote: »

Meh. I reckon a Europe-wide economy is a much more useful goal to strive for.

Eh? The border has caused huge problems to the economy in the south. The border counties are the poorest in Ireland. Shops, businesses, garges are closing down due to people going across the border to places like Newry and Derry. Letterkenny has seen an 80% rise in unempolyment in the last year. It only makes economic sense for the island to start functioning together instead of competing against each other.

DoireNod

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Eh? The border has caused huge problems to the economy in the south. The border counties are the poorest in Ireland. Shops, businesses, garges are closing down due to people going across the border to places like Newry and Derry. Letterkenny has seen an 80% rise in unempolyment in the last year. It only makes economic sense for the island to start functioning together instead of competing against each other.

Yeah, and not only that, the border was the main reason that the economy of the south was so weak up until the late '80s. I mean, it was intentional that the British decided to keep the most industrial area of the island with two of the most important ports (Derry and Belfast/Larne). Ports which were eventually used in WW2 too. Imagine had there been an all-island economy back then, where Ireland got to use its own resources (God forbid!) - Ireland wouldn't have struggled as much to begin with.

ei.sdraob

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Eh? The border has caused huge problems to the economy in the south. The border counties are the poorest in Ireland. Shops, businesses, garges are closing down due to people going across the border to places like Newry and Derry. Letterkenny has seen an 80% rise in unempolyment in the last year. It only makes economic sense for the island to start functioning together instead of competing against each other.

and how will that be accomplished? both parts of the island use different currencies...

Exile 1798

oscarBravo wrote: »

Meh. I reckon a Europe-wide economy is a much more useful goal to strive for.

I wasn't aware that the two were mutually exclusive.

Terrontress

DoireNod wrote: »

Yeah, and not only that, the border was the main reason that the economy of the south was so weak up until the late '80s. I mean, it was intentional that the British decided to keep the most industrial area of the island with two of the most important ports (Derry and Belfast/Larne). Ports which were eventually used in WW2 too. Imagine had there been an all-island economy back then, where Ireland got to use its own resources (God forbid!) - Ireland wouldn't have struggled as much to begin with.

So you think that the demographics of the area had nothing to do with it?

The most industrial area of the island was also the most loyalist, Protestant, unionist.

Can'tseeme

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and how will that be accomplished? both parts of the island use different currencies...

I know, that's part of the problem. But it's something that will have to worked towards over time. I think we have to start somewhere and working with stronger north/south bodies can be a starting place to build confidence and make moves towards improved north/south co-operation.

DoireNod

Terrontress wrote: »

So you think that the demographics of the area had nothing to do with it?

The most industrial area of the island was also the most loyalist, Protestant, unionist.

I said nothing of the sort. I merely said that it was intentional that the British kept the most industrial area of the island - which it was. In any case, although there may have been a slight majority of unionists/Protestants/Orange men in some of the 6 counties, the act of gerrymandering ensured that this 'majority' and their desire was fulfilled.

You cannot deny that the British saw the obvious gain from having 2 big ports and a large degree of industrial infrastructure during a time when their economy was hit by the aftermath of WWI. Indeed, the ports and that industrial infrastructure were extremely useful to the British and American forces during WWII. That's the point I was making - if Ireland had been able to use such infrastructure, then it wouldn't, surely, have been the late 1980s before there was mass economic development in Ireland.

oscarBravo

Exile 1798 wrote: »

I wasn't aware that the two were mutually exclusive.

They're not. But why set our sights so low?

Terrontress

DoireNod wrote: »

I said nothing of the sort. I merely said that it was intentional that the British kept the most industrial area of the island - which it was. In any case, although there may have been a slight majority of unionists/Protestants/Orange men in some of the 6 counties, the act of gerrymandering ensured that this 'majority' and their desire was fulfilled.

You cannot deny that the British saw the obvious gain from having 2 big ports and a large degree of industrial infrastructure during a time when their economy was hit by the aftermath of WWI. Indeed, the ports and that industrial infrastructure were extremely useful to the British and American forces during WWII. That's the point I was making - if Ireland had been able to use such infrastructure, then it wouldn't, surely, have been the late 1980s before there was mass economic development in Ireland.

Well it would make sense. Britain was keen to get rid of all its overseas territories in the 20th century. Losing Belfast, as one of the greatest shipbuilding cities in Europe, would have been a big loss to the UK. The willingness of the Republican movement to divide the island and note for self governance of the less economically prosperous part of the island played right into the hands of the British.

I am always surprised Donegal became part of the Free State given the usefulness of the Harbour at Killybeggs and the large Unionist population, which remains to this day.

DoireNod

Terrontress wrote: »

Well it would make sense. Britain was keen to get rid of all its overseas territories in the 20th century. Losing Belfast, as one of the greatest shipbuilding cities in Europe, would have been a big loss to the UK. The willingness of the Republican movement to divide the island and note for self governance of the less economically prosperous part of the island played right into the hands of the British.

Exactly my point, but if Ireland had that industry, one could argue that Ireland would not have been the economic weakling it was until the Celtic Tiger.

I am always surprised Donegal became part of the Free State given the usefulness of the Harbour at Killybeggs and the large Unionist population, which remains to this day.

Much of Donegal is barren and at the time had almost no infrastructure already in place. The harbour at Killybegs was probably a lot smaller in the early 20th century too, so it may have slipped under the British radar. The 'large Unionist population' of which you speak wasn't as large as you'd have us believe. There were a few Orange Lodges scattered about the county, but mostly in the eastern part of the county. It also doesn't remain to this day. I'm from Donegal and I think you'll have a very hard time trying to find a 'large Unionist population' in the whole of Donegal.

Terrontress

DoireNod wrote: »

Exactly my point, but if Ireland had that industry, one could argue that Ireland would not have been the economic weakling it was until the Celtic Tiger.

Much of Donegal is barren and at the time had almost no infrastructure already in place. The harbour at Killybegs was probably a lot smaller in the early 20th century too, so it may have slipped under the British radar. The 'large Unionist population' of which you speak wasn't as large as you'd have us believe. There were a few Orange Lodges scattered about the county, but mostly in the eastern part of the county. It also doesn't remain to this day. I'm from Donegal and I think you'll have a very hard time trying to find a 'large Unionist population' in the whole of Donegal.

I knew a girl from Donegal when I was living in Germany and her father was a devoted Unionist, even in the late 90s. He owned a small business in Donegal town and would not join the Orange Order due to the effect this might have on the business but he went to many marches to cheer them on. He voted no to the gfa, didn't want his kids to marry Catholics etc.

She thought his ideas were a bit outdated but saw nothing wrong with it. She also says that there are many people in and around Donegal town with similar beliefs.

Terrontress

DoireNod wrote: »

Exactly my point, but if Ireland had that industry, one could argue that Ireland would not have been the economic weakling it was until the Celtic Tiger.

If Ireland were going to be divided, Belfast and Larne were never going to be under the same flag as Dublin.

I think the industry in Antrim and Down were the key treasures to hold on to. Ports at Larne and Derry are largely irrelevant when compared with Cork, Dublin, Greenore, Dun Laoghaire, Rosslare etc.

DoireNod

Terrontress wrote: »

I think the industry in Antrim and Down were the key treasures to hold on to. Ports at Larne and Derry are largely irrelevant when compared with Cork, Dublin, Greenore, Dun Laoghaire, Rosslare etc.

Not true. Derry is very much relevant. It was a thriving factory city - Karl Marx even notes the Tillie and Henderson shirt factory in Das Kapital. Derry's port, Lisahally, was effectively on the Atlantic and as such was extremely crucial for the British and American navies during WWII. Derry would definitely have benefited the Irish economy.

Terrontress

DoireNod wrote: »

Not true. Derry is very much relevant. It was a thriving factory city - Karl Marx even notes the Tillie and Henderson shirt factory in Das Kapital. Derry's port, Lisahally, was effectively on the Atlantic and as such was extremely crucial for the British and American navies during WWII. Derry would definitely have benefited the Irish economy.

Would inclusion in the Republic of Ireland have helped Derry's economy?

DoireNod

Terrontress wrote: »

Would inclusion in the Republic of Ireland have helped Derry's economy?

Who knows? The factories and infrastructure would still be there as would the work force. It's hard to say.

I still think it's fair to say that if the Republic had had such resources in it's territory, there may not have been as much economic struggling for the majority of the time after independence.

meathstevie

About the port in Derry. What has ever stopped the governmeny to build a port in Greencastle or Redcastle or Quigley's Point if the location was that important ? Derry being Derry still doesn't make it much more than a regional city on a wider scale of things. Ok the shirtfactories and all were big in their day but their day is well over and gone and so's the textile industry in the whole of Europe.

DoireNod

meathstevie wrote: »

About the port in Derry. What has ever stopped the governmeny to build a port in Greencastle or Redcastle or Quigley's Point if the location was that important ? Derry being Derry still doesn't make it much more than a regional city on a wider scale of things.

I don't know, you'll have to ask the government. I'd say that it would have cost a fair bit and it was probably a better option financially to develop existing ports rather than build a whole new one away up in Donegal.

Ok the shirtfactories and all were big in their day but their day is well over and gone and so's the textile industry in the whole of Europe.

The point is, that had there been a 32 county republic, then the Republic would have had the benefits of the infrastructure already there (6 counties) and the economy of the country itself may have been better.

IIMII

Well, if the six county situation hadn't arisen, maybe we wouldn't have had the distraction of a foreign military force on the island, and all the unwanted international publicity that that brought about as a consequence

Sand

Didnt take long for it to move from an all-island economy to 32 county republic did it?

Look - with EU free trade we dont need a 32 county republic. Probably half the reason Provos are so hostile to the EU. They cant see beyond the trees.

DoireNod

Sand wrote: »

Didnt take long for it to move from an all-island economy to 32 county republic did it?

That came out of discussion that had there been a 32 county republic there would have been an all-island economy from the beginning and that perhaps it would have been good news for the new republic.

mike65

Lets join Norn iron

Dole queues in Northern Ireland have grown by 24,000 in the past year, according to new figures.

The unemployment rate in Northern Ireland is now 6.7%, or 51,000, up from 4.25% a year ago.
However, the percentage of people who are out of work is half the figure in the Republic where unemployment stands at nearly 12%.

In Britain, unemployment hit its highest rate since 1996 in the three months to June, according to figures published today.

The Office for National Statistics said the jobless rate rose to 7.8% in April-June, above forecasts for a rise to 7.7% and the highest since October-December 1996.

Its hard to be sacked if you are paid for twiddling your thumbs in a Westminster funded public sector office.

djpbarry

Can'tseeme wrote: »

ei.sdraob wrote: »

both parts of the island use different currencies...

I know, that's part of the problem. But it's something that will have to worked towards over time.

Which would involve the UK joining the Euro (not likely to happen any time soon) as part of the wider goal of European integration, compared to which, all-Ireland unity is of marginal importance.