Advice Required

Irishkid

Hello,

I need some advice, currently I am able to run 3 miles. I do it one mile at a time, 1st mile 9 and a half mins, minute or so break, second mile 10 and a half mins or so and the 3rd the same. I would like to be able to run 3 miles not stop in 21 mins. I am 36 years old and probably am a bit unfit. I am 5 foot 7 and 11 and a half stone so probably a stone and a half over weight. I would like to be able to do thisbefore the end of the yea, so my questions are:

is this target realistic?
If not, what is?
how can I achieve it?

Many Thanks

Rusty Cogs 08

Yes
Keep trying.
Simples

Hang on, 21 minutes ?

So from 9.5 - 10.5 minutes per mile with breaks in between to 7 minutes per mile straight for 3 miles ?

That's a big improvement, first off, I'd say your age and weight are no barrier to your goal. Your current level of fitness could be though.

If you have (or had) fitness from another sport I'd say you should be able to carve time off your current standard fairly quickly. If you've spent the last 20 years on the couch smoking, drinking and eating takeaways then I suggest you get yourself in for a check up before you start out on a programme to run 7m miles.

shels4ever

Rusty Cogs 08 wrote: »

Yes
Keep trying.
Simples

Hang on, 21 minutes ?

So from 9.5 - 10.5 minutes per mile with breaks in between to 7 minutes per mile straight for 3 miles ?

That's a big improvement, first off, I'd say your age and weight are no barrier to your goal. Your current level of fitness could be though.

If you have (or had) fitness from another sport I'd say you should be able to carve time off your current standard fairly quickly. If you've spent the last 20 years on the couch smoking, drinking and eating takeaways then I suggest you get yourself in for a check up before you start out on a programme to run 7m miles.

I ran my first 5k in 29 mins , so about 9:15 pace or so, and have gone sub 21 mins now so its possible for you, Time line might not be as quick as it took me the guts of a 18 months to do that. But doesnt mean its not possible. Set your self a target of 24-25 mins first and follow a good 5k plan, from there you will have a better idea of the time and work needed to achieve your goal.

Irishkid

HI,

I wouldnt say I am a couch potato, I have always played sport, mostly football and up until last year played every week and did a bit of running in between, but in the last year or so I have somewhat lead the couch potato life. I have never been that much into running, only when it was related to sports, but its something I would like to get into as I dont really play football or other sports anymore. So any advice is much appreciated. Well that and my younger brother (in a bit to get me fit again) challenged me to a race in december (7 years younger and very fit) I reckon I can beat him

Cheers

spurscormac

I'm also confused by this....

You want to run sub 21 ?

I was 12.5 stone at the start of the year, joined a club, trained regularly, lost a stone and am now down to just under 11.5 stone - I'm also 5'6, so if you think you've more weight to lose, then I must too.:o

I'm hoping for sub 21, but I had a basic fitness level before training and had a pb of 22:02 from 2 years ago.
Managed to get my times down from 22:55 to 21:26 this year for the 5k.

If you really want to run sub 21, then join a local club's fit for life group to start. That will get you from where you are to running 3 miles straight.
Then you can work on reducing the times.

If you really meant sub 21 from your current position, that's a tough goal, but if you keep at it, there's no reason why you can't do it.

Rusty Cogs 08

Well there's no magic beans you can take (apart from illegal ones) that's going to make you a very fit 29 year old in four months. Plus the fact that your brother knows what he's up against and will train accordingly (from a much fiter starting point). If he wants to get you fit and your willing to train then great, if you go sub 21 in four months then even better, if you end up out sprinting your brother then he might be a better brother than you ever knew.

Irishkid

My goal would be 21 mins, though I would be delighted if I got anywhere near 23 etc, plus he is giving me a minute head start

So the best thing is start running 3 miles non stop and then build up stamina fro there? Correct

shels4ever

Irishkid wrote: »

My goal would be 21 mins, though I would be delighted if I got anywhere near 23 etc, plus he is giving me a minute head start

So the best thing is start running 3 miles non stop and then build up stamina fro there? Correct

I would say slowly build up the miles, Try running 3 miles non stop and don't worry about time at all, Get out ofter 4-5 days a week.
Once you can run 3 miles no stop, then build up on of your runs to 4,5,6 over time . There are some good 5k training plans on the net, Follow them and get out often and you will improve big time, i'd say going from 29 to 24/5 could happen quickly but after that it get harder.

Irishkid

should you have a rest each day after a run like with weights or does it not matter? What about stretching, any recomendations and best ones.

Tomorrow am going for my 1st run.

TJC

Yes you should have a rest starting off, and probably should if it's really only 3miles you want to race over.

This is taken courtesy of CFitz in another thread.
This would be a good plan to get you going.
Don't worry too much about the 3 miles at first is what i'd say.
Once you get going u can up the times and then start concentrating on a bit of speed work.

You are not a stone and a half overweight by the way!!

I only started back running there a while ago and am really enjoying it now.
The first 2/3 weeks will be tough (and maybe a little boring, Have u got an ipod??), but once you get into it you will love it...
But try to be disciplined and just make sure you get out there running.

Also, a little training log will help you. Makes you feel guilty when u miss too many days.
Best of luck with it all...

A sensible first four weeks of running might be something like this:

Week 1:
Monday - 15 min easy
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - 15 min easy
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 20 min easy
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Rest

Week 2:
Monday - 15 min easy
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - 20 min easy
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 20 min easy
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Rest

Week 3:
Monday - 15 min easy
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - 20 min easy
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 25 min easy
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - 20 min easy

Week 4:
Monday - 20 min easy
Tuesday - Rest
Wednesday - 20 min easy
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 20 min easy
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - 25 min easy

BTW, I love these family/Brotherly challenges!!!

Running Bing

Irishkid wrote: »

is this target realistic?

21 min 5K? Absolutely. I would put my house on you being capable of running 21 minutes.

By the end of the year? Possibly. Its tight, nice to aim for but dont be heartbroken if you dont manage it. By next summer might be a better target.

how can I achieve it?

I think just have a good attitude. Be honest with yourself, as you say in your post your unfit and could lose a bit of weight. No shame in that, the important thing is your willing to do something about it.

At the same time dont be afraid to pat yourself on the back now and again. If your improving, be proud of that.

As Shels said there are plenty of plans on the net but I think the main thing is to just build up very gradually until your running as much as you can. If your running 6 days a week, 30-40 miles per week going sub 21 should'nt be hugely difficult. No secrets but it does take a bit of effort/commitment.

Running Bing

TJC wrote: »

You are not a stone and a half overweight by the way!!

Not by a stone and a half but still probably overweight.

The op could easily lose a stone and a half and remain healthy. This would help a lot with running times so if thats what they want to do and they go about it in a healthy and constructive way then its all good.

I only started back running there a while ago and am really enjoying it now.
The first 2/3 weeks will be tough (and maybe a little boring, Have u got an ipod??),

Would'nt advise getting into the habit of using an ipod. If you must use one its no big deal but if you can take it or leave it.....leave it.:D

TJC

Would'nt advise getting into the habit of using an ipod. If you must use one its no big deal but if you can take it or leave it.....leave it.:D[/quote]

Yeah, ur prob right about the ipod in terms of proper running.
Easier to concentrate on pace and breathing..
But if u are finding it tough at first then the ipod may be no harm..
After a while u can ditch it...as i am starting to do more often now..

Irishkid

My biggest trouble of running without an ipod is I loose the mental battle as I start thinking about running and being tired, next think I know I have talked myself out of it. I find with an ipod I just start day dreaming and forget I am running.

Any good links for stretching pre and post workout?

Cheers

dna_leri

Irishkid wrote: »

Hello,

I need some advice, currently I am able to run 3 miles. I do it one mile at a time, 1st mile 9 and a half mins, minute or so break, second mile 10 and a half mins or so and the 3rd the same. I would like to be able to run 3 miles not stop in 21 mins. I am 36 years old and probably am a bit unfit. I am 5 foot 7 and 11 and a half stone so probably a stone and a half over weight. I would like to be able to do thisbefore the end of the yea, so my questions are:

is this target realistic?
If not, what is?
how can I achieve it?

Many Thanks

I started in Sept 07 with 2 miles at 8-9 mins with a 2 min break in between. By the end of that year I got to a 23 min 5K (3.1 miles), but by the end of the next year I was at 19.5 mins. So it can be done but if you push too hard too early you will get injured.

There are lots of Novice 5K training plans out there, google "couch to 5K training plan" for example. Pick a plan that suits your current ability and schedule. Search for similar threads here, there is lots of good advice for beginners. Best advise I got was don't increase mileage by more than 10% per week.

Even if you don't win the bet, you will probably get a lot fitter and maybe even enjoy running then you could try doubling the bet and set a longer term goal such as 10K by mid next year.

Irishkid

OK I started last night and here is how I got on. I ran 4.47 km in 33 minutes and 15 seconds. I didn't run all the way, a mix of running and walking. Had no ipod so nearly went insane forcing myself not to stop. Anyway here are some stats from my run:

Distance 4.47km
Time 33:15
Max heart rate 181
Min heart rate 83
Avg heart rate 150
Calories 435 (bonus:))
Max pace per Km was 5mins, avg pace was 7.25mins
Temperature 32 degrees

Cheers

TJC

Fair Play to you..
My only advice is to be careful not to do too much. If you find you are really tired after 2 or 3 sessions of 30 mins, then maybe do a little less for a while - until u feel its comfortable and you can run without stopping. As others have pointed out, you a better doing a few days with a little running than just a couple over a longer distance.
"A little a lot" is the way to go when starting off..

Keep it up

Irishkid

I was going to go with day on day off and see how I get on. Is it ok to do some weight training on the "day off" to build up the legs etc? Also, will my hear rate gradually come down aswel or is there something specific you need to do in that area?

Rusty Cogs 08

I wouldn't run every 2nd day as the 'trauma' of one days exersions only hits you two days later (the day your running again).

The schedule quoted above would be a good one to follow, if your going to start making up your own (with no knowledge of how to put one together) you're not going to maximise your chances of reaching your goal. Regardless, you should be running min 4 days a week.

Running itself will build up the necessary leg muscles. Very few would do weight work to assist in leg strength (bar sprinters, maybe track runners).

The fitter you get the more your heart rate will drop. Running at 150pbm is not over doing it. I wouldn't worry about your HR atm.

(Where were you running at 32 degrees ?)

Irishkid

Cheers,

didnt really follow this what your saying rusty. Are you saying run 3 days a week or 4? From the schedule above the 1st couple of weeks are 3 days (I wasnt planning on going weekends (too much footy on the box:)) I was asking about the weights as I have had 3 ops on my kness over the years and the physio always tells me I need to build my legs to protect my knees.

I am based in Baarcelona, so its hot hot hot.:)

dna_leri

Irishkid wrote: »

I was asking about the weights as I have had 3 ops on my kness over the years and the physio always tells me I need to build my legs to protect my knees.

:eek:

This just shows the danger of getting advise on the internet. We all assume the OP in in a similar situation to us (or others we know) without realising they may have a specific medical history. Personally if I had 3 ops on my knees I would consult with my doctor and physio before starting a running program and get their advise rather than ask a well-intentioned but non-expert internet board.

--amadeus--

Irishkid wrote: »

I have had 3 ops on my kness over the years and the physio always tells me I need to build my legs to protect my knees.

Running - especially road running - is pretty jarring on teh knees. Have you had teh physio / Dr's go ahead to begin a running training program?

With a history like yours I *strongly* recommend that you do not seek advice from teh Internet. Talk to qualified medical professionals who know your history and join a local club where the coaches can assess you in person.

Rusty Cogs 08

dna_leri

I think that is a very good point.

The improvements sought by the OP would involve a commitment to a discipline which they have not had much exposure to previously, add in the fact that there are now 36 year old multi-operated-upon knees to the equation and I'd strongly recommend that the OP consults a professional before doing any more running.

That being said, when training advice is sought, we can only work on the assumption that there are no underlying medical conditions present.

(OP, I referred to the schedule without really looking at it, sorry, I suggested 4 days a week but now we know about your knees I'm suggesting you get that 'issue' green lighted before you do any more running).

Irishkid

Cheers lads,

yeah I am ok for running, the op was well over a year ago and the physio went well and got the ok for running, skiing and football. The only recomendation he gave me was that I should keep the muscle around my knee strong just to ensure I dont get injured again, and since then I have had no problems (fingers crossed). My injuries were all from football, two cartilage in one knee and an ACL in the other, ironic thing is the ACL knee is by far the stronger as I had over a year of working it quite hard to get back to 100%. Apparently I have genetical small VMO's, curse my ancestors.

Irishkid

Just went running again this evening and believe it or not it was great, probably the best I have felt running in a long time. Probably due to reducing my pace to a comfortable level, and again mixed between jogging and walking. I was suprised that ven reducing my pace my heart rate still was going up to 181 at the max so was a good workout. Here are the stats:

distance 6.96km
Time 48 mins

I know I shouldnt have run that far but felt that good I didnt really realise, could have went further. Kness are 100% am happy to report

Quick question, running at this pace is quite good comfort wise, though I stop every 5 mins or so. Will that need to stop naturally dissappear over time and the pace pick up or is this something that I will have to mentally work on or is a comfort zone inevitable in the weeks to come.

Cheers

TJC

Thats great that u were out that long.
But IMO i think it would be best to concentrate on running non stop for 20-30 minutes as your first goal. Try do that first (3-4 times a week), at a comfortable pace, then you can start to worry about pace...

Jenroche

I need some advice please. I've just signed up to do a 2km run in a month's time. Now I know 2km is probably small potatoes to most of you folks on here but as I currently can't run for a bus it's a pretty big deal for me.

Anyway, I started training 3 days ago and it's proving very painful on my legs. I'm used to wearing heels so flat trainers are really making my calf muscles hurt. I do some stretching beforehand but is there anything else I can do to help loosen things up? I know my stamina will improve but it's my leg muscles I'm more concerned about. Any advice? Plus, is it ok to train every day? I'm trying for 2km every day with a mix of running and walking (mostly walking right now.) Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jen ;->

Irishkid

I had the same issue with my muscles feeling sore quite quickly, until the last time I ran. I guess this is a combination of the following:

being well hydrated before running
reducing my pace
muscles are getting used to it.

I am no expert but thats how its went for me so far and I am in similar situation as yourself, but realy starting to enjoy it, so keep at it.

Jenroche

Thanks Irishkid, I had to rest up yesterday as I strained a calf muscle the day before but got back to it today. My stamina and recovery time is improving somewhat but muscles are still protesting a lot. Guess the only thing is to stick at it until they get used to it.

Jen ;->

Irishkid

General question again, I have now gone out 3 times and ran 30 mins plus without stopping. I found it okist to tough. The hardest thing for me is after about 20 mins a massive craving for sugar, I have no energy so I am guessing I am now eating enough before running. I had some watermellon before going running lastnight and even though I wasnt hungry after 20 minus I litterly could of laid down and gone to sleep on the road. How can I keep my energy levels high? If I can master that I think my performance might go up as my breath fells ok as do the legs. My last run was 2.2 miles in 28 mins, I would add that alot of that was uphill, from 600 to 900ft and 33 degrees heat

Cheers

dna_leri

One of the great things about running is that it gives you a indication of your overall health. So if your diet or sleep pattern are not great then you will see it in your running.
On sleep, you will probably find you need more when you are active and if you don't get enough your energy levels will be low. Likewise if you don't have a well balanced diet, its going to affect how you feel when running. Also equally important ensure you are getting enough fluids, especially at 33 deg.
All that's assuming you don't have any underlying condition, such as narcolepsy or some idiopathic disease you forgot to mention ;-)

OutsideLane

Irishkid wrote: »

General question again, I have now gone out 3 times and ran 30 mins plus without stopping. I found it okist to tough. The hardest thing for me is after about 20 mins a massive craving for sugar, I have no energy so I am guessing I am now eating enough before running. I had some watermellon before going running lastnight and even though I wasnt hungry after 20 minus I litterly could of laid down and gone to sleep on the road. How can I keep my energy levels high? If I can master that I think my performance might go up as my breath fells ok as do the legs. My last run was 2.2 miles in 28 mins, I would add that alot of that was uphill, from 600 to 900ft and 33 degrees heat

Cheers

Just seen your thread here, and may I make a suggestion - that you visit a good sports doc and get a general check-up done. I know you are running in Med heat, and that there is a bit of climbing involved, but you shouldn't need extra energy intake for less than 1 hour's exercise.
Re. the heat - I alway preferred to run am or later in the evening when conditions were more favourable (unless I had to..).
Regarding your goal - of course it's possible and some cross-training might help at this stage in your training (e.g. cycling - easier on the joints). Another suggestion would be to vary your training/route and don't worry if you have to stop/slow down occasionally at this stage. If you're not enjoying it you'll find it had to persevere, so don't worry....

Don't know what's the situation regarding an athletics or running club in your area, but it might be an idea to investigate. Could be a source of advice and running with others seems to make it easier for some.

Good luck!

Irishkid

Pretty sure it was down to diet, I went today and made sure I had a decen lunch, ran for 40 mins, just over 4 miles and no problems at all, felt great.