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Being punished for not being a sponger off the state

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  • 07-08-2009 2:23am
    #1
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭


    I am currently applying for a place on a business degree course through the new government scheme for unemployed people, the thing is this my last employment ceased just over 6 months ago but i not wanting to sponge off the state decide to look for work instead of signing on i did this for about 4 or 5 weeks then because i had no other choice i signed on the dole.

    the problem now is the social welfare are saying i do not qaulify for this new scheme because i am not claiming to dole for 6 months or more and although i am unemployed for more than 6 months theres nothing they can do, this is just sickening i am being punished because i wanted to look for work instead of signing on i would have been better off having the sponger mentality. so frustrating and infuriating anyone any thoughts on this or suggestions...?


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    #2
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    If you can afford not to sign on, then obviously those who didn't have the choice are more in need than you are. The system knows you are in need, and unemployed by you signing on. Mind reading not being a strong point of the DSFA.

    Jobseeker's Allowance or Jobseeker's Benefit. The idea is you can sign on and look for work at the same time. Generally people who sign up for things first, go to the head of the queue. Its how the world works. Its as simple as that.


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    #3
    Jugs82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Jugs82


    TomRooney wrote: »
    I am currently applying for a place on a business degree course through the new government scheme for unemployed people, the thing is this my last employment ceased just over 6 months ago but i not wanting to sponge off the state decide to look for work instead of signing on i did this for about 4 or 5 weeks then because i had no other choice i signed on the dole.

    the problem now is the social welfare are saying i do not qaulify for this new scheme because i am not claiming to dole for 6 months or more and although i am unemployed for more than 6 months theres nothing they can do, this is just sickening i am being punished because i wanted to look for work instead of signing on i would have been better off having the sponger mentality. so frustrating and infuriating anyone any thoughts on this or suggestions...?


    I tend to agree - the GF is heading back to college this year, leaving her job to pursue a postgrad.

    She is been made jump through hoops to get the grant which is very frustrating but what is even more annoying is that the Back to Education Allowance (pretty much double the normal maintenance grant) is given automatically to anybody who has been claiming social welfare for a given period of time

    I do have symphaty for those out of work but dont understand why they get twice as much support to go back to college - essentially two people could be doing the same course and 1 could be getting twice as much as the other which is in my view an unfair advantage (other person may have to get a PT Job (pretty tough at the moment), get a student loan etc...


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    #4
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I assume the point of the scheme is to get unemployed people jobs, by getting them better skills, and qualifications. Someone leaving a job to do it, defeats the whole purpose of it IMO.


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    #5
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    BostonB wrote: »
    If you can afford not to sign on, then obviously those who didn't have the choice are more in need than you are. The system knows you are in need, and unemployed by you signing on. Mind reading not being a strong point of the DSFA.

    Jobseeker's Allowance or Jobseeker's Benefit. The idea is you can sign on and look for work at the same time. Generally people who sign up for things first, go to the head of the queue. Its how the world works. Its as simple as that.

    first of all i couldnt afford to not sign on i was completly broke and relied on family and my girlfriend to subsidise me while i was looking for work
    you see i obviously have something you are lacking called patriotism
    i recognised my country was going through a hard time so rather than jump on the dole straight away to sponge i decided i should play my part and try to find work first it was only when i exhausted all my efforts in this that i signed on, and now i am suffering the consequences of not being a state sponger, i am an ordinary working class bloke i dont have money.
    so dont be so quick to make assumptions about people
    just because the concept of patriotism is wasted on you
    doesnt mean the rest of us think alike.


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    #6
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    BostonB wrote: »
    I assume the point of the scheme is to get unemployed people jobs, by getting them better skills, and qualifications. Someone leaving a job to do it, defeats the whole purpose of it IMO.


    do you just go around this forum making up stories...?

    who ever said they left there job to do one of these courses...?

    you would want to be mad to leave any job in the current economic climate.

    ps the BTEA allowance is only available to people unemployed for 12 months or more thus encouraging long term unemployment.


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    #7
    wingnut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭wingnut


    TomRooney wrote: »
    do you just go around this forum making up stories...?

    who ever said they left there job to do one of these courses...?



    Couple of posts up
    Jugs82 wrote: »
    the GF is heading back to college this year, leaving her job to pursue a postgrad.


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    #8
    fintonie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭fintonie


    TomRooney wrote: »
    I am currently applying for a place on a business degree course through the new government scheme for unemployed people, the thing is this my last employment ceased just over 6 months ago but i not wanting to sponge off the state decide to look for work instead of signing on i did this for about 4 or 5 weeks then because i had no other choice i signed on the dole.

    the problem now is the social welfare are saying i do not qualify for this new scheme because i am not claiming to dole for 6 months or more and although i am unemployed for more than 6 months theres nothing they can do, this is just sickening i am being punished because i wanted to look for work instead of signing on i would have been better off having the sponger mentality. so frustrating and infuriating anyone any thoughts on this or suggestions...?

    There are lots of people on the social at the moment, they don't want to be but they have no choice, I don't like the term your using SPONGERS, you eventually signed on because you had to, does this now mean that the next new person to sign on can refer to you as the sponger.


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    #9
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    TomRooney wrote: »
    first of all i couldnt afford to not sign on i was completly broke and relied on family and my girlfriend to subsidise me while i was looking for work
    you see i obviously have something you are lacking called patriotism
    i recognised my country was going through a hard time so rather than jump on the dole straight away to sponge i decided i should play my part and try to find work first it was only when i exhausted all my efforts in this that i signed on, and now i am suffering the consequences of not being a state sponger, i am an ordinary working class bloke i dont have money.
    so dont be so quick to make assumptions about people
    just because the concept of patriotism is wasted on you
    doesnt mean the rest of us think alike.

    Don't shoot the messenger. You taking this personally when I'm just telling you how the system works. You'll also not get PRSI credits for your pension if you don't sign on.

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/Pages/prsicredits.aspx

    Its a system, it has to have rules. Only a minority abuse and tbh its very offensive referring to it sponging. Its got nothing to do with patriotism. Its a very poor reflection on you to start accusing people of sponging, and me not have patriotism (basically name calling) when all thats happened is you haven't done your homework on how the system works.
    TomRooney wrote: »
    do you just go around this forum making up stories...?

    who ever said they left there job to do one of these courses...?

    If you re-read what posted you might accept that this could be a reason for the time critera. Again to bias the system to those more in need.
    TomRooney wrote: »
    ps the BTEA allowance is only available to people unemployed for 12 months or more thus encouraging long term unemployment.

    I'll agree the system is bias in that it favours people who are at a disadvantage. unemployed, disabled, minority groups. But its a deliberate bias. People are on unemployment less, are logically more able to get a job and need less assistance.


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    #10
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Incidentally you might be able to claim backclaim PRSI credits.


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    #11
    robert18
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭robert18


    tom rooney just a bit of advice if your last employnment was ceased that emplies that you where made redundant ,if so this means that you can get the btea as the waiting period is void ,i myself was made redundant in june and am starting a college course in september ,also what has patriotism got do to with claiming your stamps as you have builted these up over time .does cohen and his cronies show it when they are claiming their expenses .


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    #12
    Slumlion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭Slumlion


    I dont think its fair to call someone who has been working most of their life and recently has been left with no other option than to claim the dole,
    It would be fair to call a person who has no intention of working(but is fit to) and has been on the dole for years and perfectly happy with it a sponger.
    Tomrooney your a wolf in sheeps clothing,you say that someone who is receiving 204 euro a week off the state is a sponger,and now you are an angry wolf because the state wont pay you 204 euro per week(btea)to go to college???

    You deserve it with that attitude.


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    #13
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Slumlion wrote: »
    I dont think its fair to call someone who has been working most of their life and recently has been left with no other option than to claim the dole,
    It would be fair to call a person who has no intention of working(but is fit to) and has been on the dole for years and perfectly happy with it a sponger.
    Tomrooney your a wolf in sheeps clothing,you say that someone who is receiving 204 euro a week off the state is a sponger,and now you are an angry wolf because the state wont pay you 204 euro per week(btea)to go to college???

    You deserve it with that attitude.

    slumlion you should realy double check posts before you make half cocked statements such as the one above, i never said all people on the dole are spongers quite the contrary in fact, anyone who has paid stamps is fully deserving of social welfare payments in my eyes.

    my reference to sponging was not meant in a derogatory manner my issue is that because i chose to look for work instead of signing on i am being penalised, i understand the system but i dont believe the system is right or well organised to cater for all aspects of the unemployed.

    also i know first hand of many many people who are just too lazy to work and have been long term unemployed and who have been offered these types of courses but have refused them out of pure laziness.

    and i have worked all my life since i have been 15, have served my country in the defence forces and now cant get a thing when im most in need, this country is a joke in every aspect the less you give the more you get the more you give the less you get, and all while the political elites sit in comfort removed from the harsh realities of Life and oblivious to the circumstances, somethings got to give.


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    #14
    fintonie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭fintonie


    TomRooney wrote: »
    slumlion you should realy double check posts before you make half cocked statements such as the one above, i never said all people on the dole are spongers quite the contrary in fact, anyone who has paid stamps is fully deserving of social welfare payments in my eyes.

    my reference to sponging was not meant in a derogatory manner my issue is that because i chose to look for work instead of signing on i am being penalized, i understand the system but i don't believe the system is right or well organized to cater for all aspects of the unemployed.

    also i know first hand of many many people who are just too lazy to work and have been long term unemployed and who have been offered these types of courses but have refused them out of pure laziness.

    and i have worked all my life since i have been 15, have served my country in the defense forces and now cant get a thing when im most in need, this country is a joke in every aspect the less you give the more you get the more you give the less you get, and all while the political elites sit in comfort removed from the harsh realities of Life and oblivious to the circumstances, somethings got to give.

    Tom I do understand your frustration, and I hope things change round for you, there seems to be a couple of ways you might get on your course mentioned above. If you confront the people who are stopping you getting on the course explaining your need to get on the course I do believe its achievable.
    Not that you probably want to hear this but your local councilor by making one call could probably get it sorted. Well good luck and I hope you get on the course.


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    #15
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    Slumlion wrote: »
    I dont think its fair to call someone who has been working most of their life and recently has been left with no other option than to claim the dole,
    It would be fair to call a person who has no intention of working(but is fit to) and has been on the dole for years and perfectly happy with it a sponger.
    Tomrooney your a wolf in sheeps clothing,you say that someone who is receiving 204 euro a week off the state is a sponger,and now you are an angry wolf because the state wont pay you 204 euro per week(btea)to go to college???

    You deserve it with that attitude.

    Can we keep this on topic lads, thanks.


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    #16
    Slumlion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭Slumlion


    TomRooney wrote: »
    slumlion you should realy double check posts before you make half cocked statements such as the one above, i never said all people on the dole are spongers quite the contrary in fact, anyone who has paid stamps is fully deserving of social welfare payments in my eyes.

    my reference to sponging was not meant in a derogatory manner my issue is that because i chose to look for work instead of signing on i am being penalised, i understand the system but i dont believe the system is right or well organised to cater for all aspects of the unemployed.

    also i know first hand of many many people who are just too lazy to work and have been long term unemployed and who have been offered these types of courses but have refused them out of pure laziness.

    and i have worked all my life since i have been 15, have served my country in the defence forces and now cant get a thing when im most in need, this country is a joke in every aspect the less you give the more you get the more you give the less you get, and all while the political elites sit in comfort removed from the harsh realities of Life and oblivious to the circumstances, somethings got to give.
    The title of your original post gave out the wrong message.


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    #17
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    TomRooney wrote: »
    ...because i chose to look for work instead of signing on i am being penalised, i understand the system but i dont believe the system is right or well organised to cater for all aspects of the unemployed.....

    Lets be clear. You're are not being penalized for looking for work, but for not signing on. The only way the system knows you are unemployed (and assigns priority) is if you sign on. You didn't do that. The rest (which I didn't quote) is irrelevant tbh and probably offensive to many.

    You're meant to sign on, and look for work at the same time, the system is set up around that. So its illogical to say you were looking for work instead of signing on. They are not mutually exlusive.


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    #18
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    BostonB wrote: »
    Lets be clear. You're are not being penalized for looking for work, but for not signing on. The only way the system knows you are unemployed (and assigns priority) is if you sign on. You didn't do that. The rest (which I didn't quote) is irrelevant tbh and probably offensive to many.

    realy then what are P45`s for, are they not documentation of start and finish dates of employment...?


    You're meant to sign on, and look for work at the same time, the system is set up around that. So its illogical to say you were looking for work instead of signing on. They are not mutually exlusive
    .

    Hardly illogical now, ill put it to you this way, who would be more motivated to gain employment somebody with zero money and no benefits or someone on 204 euro a week free medical care and rent allowance were applicable.

    you have a short grasp on logic.

    as is very evident by the diabolicle state of this country the system is a joke in every aspect.


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    #19
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    TomRooney wrote: »
    realy then what are P45`s for, are they not documentation of start and finish dates of employment...?
    .

    Someone might be working in another country or gone travelling, or simply decided not to work, if they have the means to do that. Even working illegally. Staying at home looking after kids. Lots of reasons.
    TomRooney wrote: »
    Hardly illogical now, ill put it to you this way, who would be more motivated to gain employment somebody with zero money and no benefits or someone on 204 euro a week free medical care and rent allowance were applicable.

    you have a short grasp on logic.

    Motivation wasn't the issue. You implied you couldn't sign on and look for work at the same time. Thats whats illogical. Besides you've just tried your theory out for the last 6 months and it didn't work because here you are. You've actually disproved your own theory.

    You seem to have a lousy opinion of people who need help. The vast majority are genuine and bust a gut trying to get work. Not nice at all tbh. Its a very Celtic Tiger attitude. Thats how we got here. Never mind trying to buck the system, because it suits you. Where have we seen that before. (banks, developers)
    TomRooney wrote: »
    as is very evident by the diabolicle state of this country the system is a joke in every aspect


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    #20
    Larianne
    Registered Users Posts: 35,954 ✭✭✭✭Larianne


    Okay, I'm closing this thread as I can foresee it getting derailed further.

    TomRooney, I would speak to someone in your local citizens information bureau and see if they can point you in the right direction.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories

    Also, if you don't get satisfactory answers in the Social Welfare Office I would ask to speak to someone else in the department if possible. And getting onto your local councillor as already suggested would be a good idea if you're getting nowhere.

    Best of luck.


This discussion has been closed.
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