Locating water cyclinder in garage?

Mazotasan

Hi all, Just starting building recently and planning the plumbing install. My question is our garage is approx 10m meters from the house. The roof of the garage is south facing and ideally located for solar panels. We plan to utilize solar panels but not straight away (1-2 yrs down the line - budget constraints). The idea is to locate the water cylinder in the garage and use the insulated pipework to get back into house. Its a pressurized system, rads and condensing boiler (oil fired). Is the distance from garage to house too far in terms of heat loss? If cylinder located in house the run back from the solar panels will be approx 20m? No ideal location on house roof for panels...any suggestions?

macnab

I wouldnt put the cylinder in the garage, mainly because you will also be loosing the heat generated by the emersion heater and your main heating source (oil boiler etc) Yes do put the panels on the garage roof and run your pipes into the house, use the best insulation you can afford to minimise heat loss. But you will still loose some heat along the way.

trad

How long will it take to get hot water to the tap?

ThePiedPiper

We've a very similar setup...
The run from the garage to the house is 12 metres for our house.

We're putting solar panels on roof of garage, and on plumber's advice, putting an insulated holding tank for this water in garage attic. There's a special insulated tube that can take 4 pipes I think and it's guaranteed to only lose 1 Degree celsiums per 10m. The water from the holding tank and the water from the condenser boiler both run through this to the house.

My cousin built a house last year with boiler in garage and just used normal insulation around the pipe.. You could actually see a dry line in the gravel above where the pipe was running, he was losing loads of heat.. He ended up digging it up and re-installing using the more expensive pipe.

the pipe I'm talking about costs nearly €1,000 as far as I remember but it would seem to be worth the money. I can ask the builder if you want the details..

soldsold

RunForestRun wrote: »

My cousin built a house last year with boiler in garage and just used normal insulation around the pipe.. You could actually see a dry line in the gravel above where the pipe was running, he was losing loads of heat.. He ended up digging it up and re-installing using the more expensive pipe.

The cheapskate that built my place also has the soft pipe lagging wrap around the flow and return from my boiler all the way across the yard to the house.

Cant wait to move the boiler into the new extension to stop this heat loss. I might use the redundant pipes as a channel to run ethernet cable or some gadgety electric cable from the house under the yard to the garage

reilig

The pipe costs €40 per metre for single run. That's €80 per meter for the flow and return. I priced it only last week. The fittings for it are excessively expensive as well. Going to have a go at making up my own. Will use heavy duty armaflex insulation to wrap around the pipe. Will then put the flow and return pipes into a 4 inch duct. Will fill it with expanding foam. Plumber recons it will be as good of a job. It will cost less than €300 in total.

RunForestRun wrote: »

We've a very similar setup...
The run from the garage to the house is 12 metres for our house.

We're putting solar panels on roof of garage, and on plumber's advice, putting an insulated holding tank for this water in garage attic. There's a special insulated tube that can take 4 pipes I think and it's guaranteed to only lose 1 Degree celsiums per 10m. The water from the holding tank and the water from the condenser boiler both run through this to the house.

My cousin built a house last year with boiler in garage and just used normal insulation around the pipe.. You could actually see a dry line in the gravel above where the pipe was running, he was losing loads of heat.. He ended up digging it up and re-installing using the more expensive pipe.

the pipe I'm talking about costs nearly €1,000 as far as I remember but it would seem to be worth the money. I can ask the builder if you want the details..

trad

trad wrote: »

How long will it take to get hot water to the tap?

You are missing my point.

When you turn on the tap how long will it take to get hot water from the cylinder to the tap. If it takes too long you end up just heating the pipe and wasting energy and getting no hot water at the tap.

mr_edge_to_you

Our builder and heating supplies bout advised against it. Our garage is only 3 metres from the house. Thought i could free up a storage area off the landing but not the smartest idea it seems. Posts above seem to explain the reservations that our builder and heating guys had.

ThePiedPiper

trad wrote: »

You are missing my point.

When you turn on the tap how long will it take to get hot water from the cylinder to the tap. If it takes too long you end up just heating the pipe and wasting energy and getting no hot water at the tap.

Yeah, sorry, that was my roundabout way of saying I don't think it's the best thing to put your tank in the garage... we're putting the main tank in the house, the one in the garage is a holding tank...

aujopimur

Ideally all pipe runs should as short as possible whether primary or secondary insulated or not

Mazotasan

If the spec on the proprietary insulated pipe is correct it wouldn't be a huge loss...I've heard hit and miss stories about the 'homemade' pipes. Cylinder in the house and panels on garage are probably the best compromise...

sinnerboy

Mazotasan wrote: »

Cylinder in the house and panels on garage

smart move , not compromise . you wouldn't boil a kettle constantly and leave it outside

fit a stat so the cylinder stops demanding heat at 60 degrees

De_man

trad wrote: »

You are missing my point.

When you turn on the tap how long will it take to get hot water from the cylinder to the tap. If it takes too long you end up just heating the pipe and wasting energy and getting no hot water at the tap.

we have this set up, used a "zero loss" pipe (cost 970yoyo:eek:)
with secondary return, (pump on at peak times to reduce time lag from tank to tap / shower with pump on takes approx 45sec, pump off approx 1.5mins.

if you do a search on the renewables thread this topice was already covered, luckily i have run spare lines & wiring and most likely when i get the chance i'll put in a buffer tank in the house:o

if you don't want the buffer tank & have the pump on ....you can install an alarm PIR that'll activate the pump for hot water when you enter the ensuite / bathroom thereby saving electricity on the pump and reduce time lag

let me find the link

De_man

found it here it is

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055547472

if i had the time over again i'd have put the panels on the roof of the house
and a well insulated "plant room" in the house rather than the garage and saved a fortune!!!only draw back if you're going for a pressurised system, the pump is very noisy!!! thankgod it's in the garage...maybe gravity is the way to go?

Mazotasan

cheers for that...will check link now. As a matter of interest what approx would be the decibels of the pump when it kicks in?

Carlow52

I dont agree that the pumps are very noisey if they are a good quality and are on a concrete base with rubber mountings.

If you site it incorrectly, for example in the hot press in a TF house...

The dB issue is very subjective and what you will hear during the day and at 0300 are quiet:D different.

What I do now is have a switch in the house to turn off the pump at night when u set the alarm, the pressure vessel will provide some water and there will be one flush in the toilet.
Then outside each bathroom there is a bell push to a 15 min relay which can be used to turn the pump on if you have had a bad curry and need to replenish the cistern overnight.

De_man

Carlow52 wrote: »

I dont agree that the pumps are very noisey if they are a good quality and are on a concrete base with rubber mountings.

If you site it incorrectly, for example in the hot press in a TF house...

The dB issue is very subjective and what you will hear during the day and at 0300 are quiet:D different.

i haven't a clue regarding the Db's
I have a WILO pump (recommended by several people- very pricey!!)
there's no way i'd have it inside the house:eek: this thing would wake the dead.

Carlow52

De_man wrote: »

i haven't a clue regarding the Db's
I have a WILO pump (recommended by several people- very pricey!!)
there's no way i'd have it inside the house:eek: this thing would wake the dead.

I have a wilo pump for past 10 years sitting loose on a 25 mm solid rubber pad on a concrete floor with the proper flexible rubber/SS connections and its only at night that you can barely hear it.