Recommend me a .223 rifle :)

SpannerMonkey

what would you recommend in a .223

Sparks

Depends on what you want to do with it Davy

It wasn't me!

Well, for target shooting, I'd personally go with a Savage, like this

, or perhaps even this

The latter would be my personal choice. Looks excellent. And since you're posting in target shooting, if it's for targets only, I'd get the latter in 6mmBR and never look back.

SpannerMonkey

looking for one for target shooting

It wasn't me!

davy_b wrote: »

looking for one for target shooting

Then my advice is suck it up and get the 6mmBR. You won't regret it and it's far more flexible. (Also, let us know if you get that rifle. I'd love to see one in person)

seamusgi4szw

davy_b wrote: »

looking for one for target shooting

My advice is go for a Savage F/tr in .308, you will only have the .223 for a short while and will want to move up anyway so save money and move up now,,,,.223 good for 300 - 500???? .308 out to 1200, use my Savage mostly at 800/900/1000 at Tullamore and Bisley. Come on, join us, we is a fun crowd.
If you want any help pm me,
Regards
Seamus

SpannerMonkey

seamusgi4szw wrote: »

My advice is go for a Savage F/tr in .308, you will only have the .223 for a short while and will want to move up anyway so save money and move up now,,,,.223 good for 300 - 500???? .308 out to 1200, use my Savage mostly at 800/900/1000 at Tullamore and Bisley. Come on, join us, we is a fun crowd.
If you want any help pm me,
Regards
Seamus

haha would love to but im only coming from a .22 i can imagine going to the local garda looking for a .308 , how much are rounds for 6mm BR

It wasn't me!

davy_b wrote: »

haha would love to but im only coming from a .22 i can imagine going to the local garda looking for a .308 , how much are rounds for 6mm BR

To be honest, it's also a long-range target round, so there'd be precious little difference in terms of the Gardai. Ammo for 6BR should be about €30 or so a box, so the same as decent .223 stuff, perhaps a bit cheaper than very good .308 ammo. It's all quality stuff too.

SpannerMonkey

rght im new to centerfire so i have to ask some noob questions , no laughing now :rolleyes: from what calibre up do you need a deer licence and how do i get one and do you need a deer licence no matter what above these calibre's

It wasn't me!

davy_b wrote: »

rght im new to centerfire so i have to ask some noob questions , no laughing now :rolleyes: from what calibre up do you need a deer licence and how do i get one and do you need a deer licence no matter what above these calibre's

Well, there's nothing set in law. In a lot of cases, it's been asked for .22-250 up, as that's the legal minimum to shoot deer, but in practice, once you make your case well, you don't tend to have any hassle. As you're looking for a round for target shooting, you'll have to prove club membership. As you're looking for a long range one, you'll need to be a member of a club that does that, so that'd be Midlands if you're not already a member. Once it's for target shooting, there's no deer licence required for anything, so no worries there.

SpannerMonkey

cheers buddy thanks for advice
am i taking the mickey a bit looking at such a big calibre starting in centerfires ???
how does the 308 perform on shorter ranges ??

It wasn't me!

davy_b wrote: »

cheers buddy thanks for advice
am i taking the mickey a bit looking at such a big calibre starting in centerfires ???
how does the 308 perform on shorter ranges ??

Not really. You learn your technique with a .22. You'll learn to set up your rifle, you'll learn safety and you'll learn how to take a decent shot, read wind and calculate drop. You'll have done this already. Nothing I've found kicks hard enough to be really unpleasant, so it's nothing to be afraid of, and you won't spend a fortune and have a crap time trying to learn to shoot again. You'll climb something of another learning curve, but it won't be too bad. The .308 is a fantastic round across the board, and that Savage F/TR is a stonking gun, really excellent. The 6mmBR kicks less, but both will do the same. If you can handle the extra recoil comfortably, and the additional cost, the .308 will serve you very well. Your first step is going to be joining Midlands if you haven't already done so. People will give you more advice there. Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either round, depending what you want to do.

pajero2005

Hi davy_b,

If you want to compare different calibers check out the link below. You can view ballistics for every round federal make. Examine trajectory, wind drift energy etc etc. You can also compare rounds. Just do .223 V's .308 and you'll see the difference on screen.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx

Great help for seeing how flat shooting a caliber is before you buy.

Meyer

I'd recommend the H&k SL8-5... As far as target shooting goes it's specifically designed for target shooting, and because it has a 1 in 7 rate of twist, is accurate out to 800 yards (With a heavier gr bullet.).
Downside, It's a semi-auto and so it's restricted, but it will kick the ****e out of any bolt action .223's and then some

It wasn't me!

Meyer wrote: »

I'd recommend the H&k SL8-5... As far as target shooting goes it's specifically designed for target shooting, and because it has a 1 in 7 rate of twist, is accurate out to 800 yards (With a heavier gr bullet.).
Downside, It's a semi-auto and so it's restricted, but it will kick the ****e out of any bolt action .223's and then some

I'd bet a small house on that not being true.

seamusgi4szw

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'd bet a small house on that not being true.

H&K 'guarantee' a 30mm group @ 100m with 55 gr IMI, not exactly .5 moa.
@ 800 m that equates to something like a 12" group without the effect the wind will have on a lightweight head.....the bull @ 800 for f class is .5 moa, 4".
The only .223's that shoot out to 800 accurately are custom guns with a world class shooter pulling the trigger and I only know one, a Canadian (a lady) shooting .223, and yep she's good.
The H&K is a good Sunday gun but by no means a target rifle.
Because police marksmen use the equivilent (G36) means little, all their shooting is at mansize targets at under 100 yards usually a lot less.

Meyer

seamusgi4szw wrote: »

H&K 'guarantee' a 30mm group @ 100m with 55 gr IMI, not exactly .5 moa.
@ 800 m that equates to something like a 12" group without the effect the wind will have on a lightweight head.....the bull @ 800 for f class is .5 moa, 4".
The only .223's that shoot out to 800 accurately are custom guns with a world class shooter pulling the trigger and I only know one, a Canadian (a lady) shooting .223, and yep she's good.
The H&K is a good Sunday gun but by no means a target rifle.
Because police marksmen use the equivilent (G36) means little, all their shooting is at mansize targets at under 100 yards usually a lot less.

For one thing I wouldn't put a 55gr round anywhere near my SL8, they are crap! It needs a minimum 69 gr, but shoots best only with a 75 gr round, and although it won't give competition style results at 800 yards, it is more than adequate to shoot reasonably well out to that distance, and the grouping is nowhere near being as large as 12". Also it is far more than a "sunday gun", I'll wager any money on it against the majority of .223's at medium range (Purpose built or not :P).
The comparison with the G36 is neither here nor there, for one thing the barrel on the SL8 is different, being a heavier match grade barrel.

seamusgi4szw

davy_b wrote: »

looking for one for target shooting

Ok, "shoots reasonably well" dosn't cut it with any target rifle at any distance, who wants to be last every weekend because his rifle shoots reasonably well, personally I shoot reasonably well, but my firearm shoots extra well which gives me an edge over the guy who shoots better but with a firearm that only shoots reasonably well, I think that is a reasonable argument for buying a better than reasonable firearm,,,,,,,,,
And I am a reasonable person,,,, who loves the idea of a H&K for 300 yards, but can't afford any more rifles.

seamusgi4szw

davy_b wrote: »

what would you recommend in a .223

Davy, a few sites for you to play with....

http://www.ospreyrifles.com/
http://www.f-classinfo.com/
http://www.freewebs.com/fclassuk/
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
http://www.nrai.ie/
http://longrangeshooting.forumup.co.uk/
http://www.precisionrifle.co.uk/


http://www.nrawc.org/
This is where the 2013 worlds is being held, you have four years to train, easily do-able, hope to see you there, but not taking my place in the team of course.......:)

Cheers Seamie

SpannerMonkey

seamusgi4szw wrote: »

Davy, a few sites for you to play with....

http://www.ospreyrifles.com/
http://www.f-classinfo.com/
http://www.freewebs.com/fclassuk/
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
http://www.nrai.ie/
http://longrangeshooting.forumup.co.uk/
http://www.precisionrifle.co.uk/


http://www.nrawc.org/
This is where the 2013 worlds is being held, you have four years to train, easily do-able, hope to see you there, but not taking my place in the team of course.......:)

Cheers Seamie

`

Cheers lad, il have to clear my calender to look through all these

SpannerMonkey

So .308 or 6mm BR which would you go for

It wasn't me!

Actually, a good, pertinent question is what do you want to spend on it? You'd get a lovely Savage for somewhere between €1500 and €2k, then add on a scope and such, but if you're prepared to go a bit higher, you might start considering a custom rifle, built by a gunsmith.

As to calibre, as you might see from my custom build thread on the front page, I'm going to have to say "both". Both are superb rounds. .308 kicks harder and 6mmBR is better ballistically at long range, so for one round to shoot targets, I'd have to say 6mmBR, but .308 allows you to shoot F/TR, Imperial Target Rifle and Palma as well. Personally, if I were right handed and buying a .308, I'd buy a Savage Palma rifle and use it for everything.

rrpc

davy_b wrote: »

So .308 or 6mm BR which would you go for

I believe the .308 is a cheaper round than the Br Norma and that should be a factor when you're paying up to €2 a round.

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

I believe the .308 is a cheaper round than the Br Norma and that should be a factor when you're paying up to €2 a round.

Hmm, not quite solidly true. You'll probably get cheap plinking 7.62 stuff for the .308, and there's reasonable hunting ammo, but for good target shooting ammo, the .308 would probably run you more expensive. Buying Norma Diamond Line for the army's 6BR squad was costing about €1.50 a pop. The Lapua stuff comes in a wee bit higher methinks, at about €35 a box. Good .308 ammo is going to be €40+ a box though, generally €40-45, and I've seen some stuff over €50. Like I say, personally, I'd find it very difficult to pick between them, as there are so many competitions to use both in.

freddieot

It's not true. I have one.

The SL8 can hold it's own well against lots of 223 bolt action jobs I've seen out to 200 (with decent scope) and beat some at 100. However, the trigger is harsh, hard to get used to and cannot be adjusted and once you go past 300 it will not out shoot a good b/action, no matter how good you are.

Ideal for bullseye 100/200, plates to about 350, after that buy a good b/action.

By the way, not cheap to shoot (for serious target work). You'll need heavier (more expensive rounds (69-75g) to match the barrel length and twist

800 + for a semi 223 is just wishful thinking.

Meyer

freddieot wrote: »

It's not true. I have one.

Uhh So do I.

The SL8 can hold it's own well against lots of 223 bolt action jobs I've seen out to 200 (with decent scope) and beat some at 100.

I have found it can more than hold it's own, but to say you have seen it "beat some at 100" ??? Who was shooting it? A one eyed man using his glass eye perhaps.

However, the trigger is harsh, hard to get used to and cannot be adjusted and once you go past 300 it will not out shoot a good b/action, no matter how good you are.

The trigger is easily adjusted...It just requires a few tweaks here and there...Its not rocket science, or is every rifle that arrives with non-adjustable triggers out of the box now alien to the majority of shooters?

Ideal for bullseye 100/200, plates to about 350, after that buy a good b/action.

Bollox plain and simple!

By the way, not cheap to shoot (for serious target work). You'll need heavier (more expensive rounds (69-75g) to match the barrel length and twist

Wait a minute... One minute it's "ideal for bullseye 100/200", i.e. rimfire distance with the former... the next it's not cheap for "serious target work" which with a cf is far beyond 100/200...Which is it?

800 + for a semi 223 is just wishful thinking.

You have no idea of what your SL8 is capable off, plain and simple, granted 800+ is wishful thing but 800 isn't

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Hmm, not quite solidly true. You'll probably get cheap plinking 7.62 stuff for the .308, and there's reasonable hunting ammo, but for good target shooting ammo, the .308 would probably run you more expensive. Buying Norma Diamond Line for the army's 6BR squad was costing about €1.50 a pop. The Lapua stuff comes in a wee bit higher methinks, at about €35 a box. Good .308 ammo is going to be €40+ a box though, generally €40-45, and I've seen some stuff over €50. Like I say, personally, I'd find it very difficult to pick between them, as there are so many competitions to use both in.

I've been told the stuff the CISM squad use is €2 a pop (by the guy who orders it). A quick trawl around any of the websites tells me it's averaging over twice the price of .308 ammo which (if you think about it) has to be cheaper being such a hugely popular round.

Relatively good BR quality .308 can be got for a little as 50 cents a pop in the States whereas the same quality Br Norma was going at around $2.

4 times the price!

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

I've been told the stuff the CISM squad use is €2 a pop (by the guy who orders it). A quick trawl around any of the websites tells me it's averaging over twice the price of .308 ammo which (if you think about it) has to be cheaper being such a hugely popular round.

Relatively good BR quality .308 can be got for a little as 50 cents a pop in the States whereas the same quality Br Norma was going at around $2.

4 times the price!

I've seen the Lapua stuff going for $26 a box in the states. To be honest, the cost really isn't that different. It's certainly not so that I'd pick one round over another.

freddieot

Meyer - I see we will have to agree to disagree, on just about everything except that fact that the SL8 is a fantastic rifle.

Maybe I'll catch you some Sat in midlands, should be easy to spot the ol HK out on the firing line among all those weeping F Class shooters.

It wasn't me!

Actually, the cost element is almost entirely negated by buying your practice stuff from HPS-TR. I know of a dealer in Dublin who intends bringing it in as well, so happy days. As I recall, you were able to get good quality ammo for about sixty to eighty cents a round, buying by the thousand. That was for 6mmBR and .308 as I recall. That was with Sierra Matchkings and the like as well, so quality stuff across the board.

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Actually, the cost element is almost entirely negated by buying your practice stuff from HPS-TR. I know of a dealer in Dublin who intends bringing it in as well, so happy days. As I recall, you were able to get good quality ammo for about sixty to eighty cents a round, buying by the thousand. That was for 6mmBR and .308 as I recall. That was with Sierra Matchkings and the like as well, so quality stuff across the board.

That's for reloaded ammo though isn't it?

I was talking about new ammo where the .308 is quite a bit cheaper.

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

That's for reloaded ammo though isn't it?

I was talking about new ammo where the .308 is quite a bit cheaper.

It is indeed.

I still don't think there's that big a difference. In Scotland, I've seen the Norma Diamond Line 6mmBR for I think it was £77 a box of 50. You'd get a decent chunk off buying by the thousand, which brings it to where I thought. The Lapua stuff is €30-35 a box I think, but for the same stuff in .308, 155gr Lapua Scenars, it's at least as much from memory. There might be cheaper .308 stuff there, but the same quality stuff costs at least as much. In fact, even for commercial reloads, the 6mmBR works out cheaper, by about 20% in some cases.

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It is indeed.

I still don't think there's that big a difference. In Scotland, I've seen the Norma Diamond Line 6mmBR for I think it was £77 a box of 50. You'd get a decent chunk off buying by the thousand, which brings it to where I thought. The Lapua stuff is €30-35 a box I think, but for the same stuff in .308, 155gr Lapua Scenars, it's at least as much from memory. There might be cheaper .308 stuff there, but the same quality stuff costs at least as much. In fact, even for commercial reloads, the 6mmBR works out cheaper, by about 20% in some cases.

Well going by HPS-TR prices, new BR is over £1 a round whereas new .308 starts at about 65p a round. That's significant enough.

The difference is greater in the US, but that's not surprising seeing as the .308 has been around so long, has been a target round since God was a boy and is still a very popular round for hunting and target shooting.

The Br Norma is still very much the new kid on the block in comparison.

gunhappy_ie

Meyer.....

I used to have an SL8.... is it possible that you bought if off me ?

Anyway .. can you please explain now you easily the SL8 trigger is tuned.... ud be doing somethin that the nation of american firers could not do and the expert minds (and they really know there stuff) at hkpro.com have struggled with !

freddieot

Gunhappy I'm waiting for that info as well !

It seems it's a simple job according to Meyer. Like you, I've checked everywhere for a solution, even HKPRO and I expect even the Customer Service Department at Heckler & Koch will pay big bucks to learn the secret.

Those idiots in the US, customising SL8s, might be able to modify barrel length, move the position of gas ports, fit collapsable stocks, AR15 magwells and redo bolt heads but it appears Meyer has solved the age old trigger problem for them at last.

We'll all be rich