Meteor- security deposit for Bill pay lite??

cojomo2

Called into meteor today to port from 3irl to Meteor Bill pay lite 25 and data plan.

After giving all my details, I was told I would have to pay a deposit of €50 which would be refunded in 6 months time...

What is this all about?

I'm in full time employment
I'm with my bank for over 15 yrs
I have a perfect credit history
Neither Vodafone or 3irl asked me for such a deposit

and to top it all off, my mate who is currently unemployed, joined the bill pay lite plan recently, with no such deposit required.

Needless to say, I refused to pay it and asked the girl to waive it, but to no avail. So Im now still on 3....what is up with this crappy policy?

Fresh Pots

Yeah I was told when signing up that I might have to pay it also, that its just up to whatever answer the system comes back with and that it can be a bit random with its answers. Luckily for me I didn't have to pay.:D

I'd say its worth a try going into another store and seeing if the computer comes back with a different answer this time.

drunkmonkey

there can be a load of reasons you could end up with a deposit..

eg. the area you live in, your name wasn't spelt incorrectly on the application, you owed eircell 20 quid from 16 years ago, they never reveal the checking criteria so it's impossible to say what caused it.
Make sure your name and address were correct on the application, it's a common cause of deposits if there wrong..

€50 nots so bad of a deposit for a new customer, i've seen €500 deposits on €19 tarrifs, that meteor plan is really good, can't see it lasting forever...

cojomo2

squared wrote: »

Yeah I was told when signing up that I might have to pay it also, that its just up to whatever answer the system comes back with and that it can be a bit random with its answers. Luckily for me I didn't have to pay.:D

I'd say its worth a try going into another store and seeing if the computer comes back with a different answer this time.

yeah was thinking that, but she filled up all the details in her pc, so that's prob on file so may just keep repeating itself asking for a deposit? I told her that i wasn't happy with it and could she waive it, she said no, so I just said 'oh well I have not got 50 on me, so I think she is expecting me to call back with it, which I certainly am not..

cojomo2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

there can be a load of reasons you could end up with a deposit..

eg. the area you live in, your name wasn't spelt incorrectly on the application, you owed eircell 20 quid from 16 years ago, they never reveal the checking criteria so it's impossible to say what caused it.
Make sure your name and address were correct on the application, it's a common cause of deposits if there wrong..

€50 nots so bad of a deposit for a new customer, i've seen €500 deposits on €19 tarrifs, that meteor plan is really good, can't see it lasting forever...

I live in dublin 4(but am not a d4 head!), name was spelled correctly, I am sure that I owe no network any cash, and actually have no loans/mortgage or anything...she told me the same thing '' oh 50 isnt bad, some customers have to pay 300''...yeah maybe it isnt bad in the world of meteor, but I'm not a kid depending on pocket money to pay my bill...I have never been asked for this by any other network, and actually felt a bit insulted by it to be honest..its obvious that their credit check system is the problem..if it can give an uneployed person a contract with zero deposit, and then its asks me for one...:mad:

drunkmonkey

if your in rented accomodation and someone else that was there screwed up it could be causing the problem..or somebody with the same name has a bad history etc.... i'm only guessing..

cojomo2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

if your in rented accomodation and someone else that was there screwed up it could be causing the problem..or somebody with the same name has a bad history etc.... i'm only guessing..

i know what your saying...anyway, i rang them to complain and they told me to email them with the info and they will then tell me where the problem lies. If they waive it ill go back, if not I guess Ill stick with 3.

I get the impression you work for them? Have you seen deposits waived before or , do you think I'm wasting my time emailing them about it?

Thanks

p.s any idea when the new data plans are expected?

Sam Vimes

Having worked in a shop that sold most networks products I can confidently tell you that the system is completely random, or at least has a random element to it. I've seen solicitors refused outright, as in not even allowed pay a deposit, and unemployed people in the country a week given full international services. So you shouldn't take it personally

It doesn't check your credit rating, it's just an algorithm based on what you enter

The staff member can't change it

You will be asked for the deposit if you try to sign up again

And it's not that big a deal. You'll have some free bills in 6 months when they credit to your account. Think of it like savings, it shouldn't be a deal breaker on a good tariff. My gf had to pay 200

ardmacha

they never reveal the checking criteria so it's impossible to say what caused it.

You can ask for a copy of all the information held about you, under the Data Protection act.

cojomo2

would it make any difference going to the carphone warehouse to get this?

Sam Vimes

Nope, same system

cojomo2

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Having worked in a shop that sold most networks products I can confidently tell you that the system is completely random, or at least has a random element to it. I've seen solicitors refused outright, as in not even allowed pay a deposit, and unemployed people in the country a week given full international services. So you shouldn't take it personally

It doesn't check your credit rating, it's just an algorithm based on what you enter

The staff member can't change it

You will be asked for the deposit if you try to sign up again

And it's not that big a deal. You'll have some free bills in 6 months when they credit to your account. Think of it like savings, it shouldn't be a deal breaker on a good tariff. My gf had to pay 200

this word is used far to loosely these days!

Sam Vimes

It's honestly not a big deal, it's standard practice to discourage fraud. Fraudsters are smart enough to give high scoring details so they randomly put deposits on a few. All the networks do it, you'll get it back and it's not an indictment on you

Spipov

1 year ago i had to pay 300 euros deposit for the 20 euro tariff. then, i signed up for bill pay lite 10 3 months ago.

i had to pay 100 euros. even though my account was still in credit of 94 euros.

useless system.

Sam Vimes

My gf switched to bpl from talk 300 with one phone call. You shouldn't have had to do the sign up process again

Bondvillain

cojomo2 wrote: »

I told her that i wasn't happy with it and could she waive it, she said no, so I just said 'oh well I have not got 50 on me.

It's frustrating, but phone store staff have absolutely no power of discretion when it comes to security deposits. They have to do what the computer says, end of story.

Credit scoring can produce some very strange results. I know of a woman who was in a similar position to yourself, in her case, she was signing up for bill pay lite 10 . When this lady gave her details (A nurse, same address & Bank acc for 10 years, homeowner) she was asked for €100 deposit. She obviously refused the offer.

She pointed out that despite the promise of the deposit being returned as credit after bill number 6 or whatever, since the bill was going to be €10 per month, €100 upfront pretty much paid the entire years bill in advance.

If she wanted to do that, she'd buy a pay as you go from o2 with the free €50 credit package then top up by €5 or so when required after the original €50 ran out to save herself money, which in fairness, at the time, was a very good point.

Dankoozy

i'd say it helps if you don't ask for roaming. first 2 months i had no roaming at all but i could live with it just got a sim in the states. the guy in the shop also asked me if i wanted to call premium rate numbers or something, if they ask something like that just say no and it will reduce your chance of having to pay a deposit

i was 21 y/o with no job and never paid a bill in my life when i signed up but still didnt have to pay a deposit

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

chrislad

Exactly. Don't take it personally. It's completely random. Store staff have zero control. You can probably write to their Credit Control and get them to look at it manually, but they won't do anything over the phone.

At the end of the day, it's a great deal. You have to look at how much it will save you monthly. Is it worth putting down 50e, which you will get back either a) after 6 months or b) if you decide to switch back to another network or PayG

Sam Vimes

Bondvillain wrote: »

She pointed out that despite the promise of the deposit being returned as credit after bill number 6 or whatever, since the bill was going to be €10 per month, €100 upfront pretty much paid the entire years bill in advance.

If she wanted to do that, she'd buy a pay as you go from o2 with the free €50 credit package then top up by €5 or so when required after the original €50 ran out to save herself money, which in fairness, at the time, was a very good point.

It's not really a good point tbh because the calls on O2 pre pay are a lot more expensive. She will end up out of pocket, she's just paying it over a few months instead.

Dankoozy wrote: »

i'd say it helps if you don't ask for roaming. first 2 months i had no roaming at all but i could live with it just got a sim in the states. the guy in the shop also asked me if i wanted to call premium rate numbers or something, if they ask something like that just say no and it will reduce your chance of having to pay a deposit

i was 21 y/o with no job and never paid a bill in my life when i signed up but still didnt have to pay a deposit

I wouldn't say that'e true with meteor because if you want roaming you have to pay a €60 deposit in store to activate it, which comes off your bill. Someone willing to pay more in store than they have to is unlikely to be a scammer. And with O2 you don't request them, you're either granted them with your credit score or not. I can't remember how vodafone deals with it and I don't think 3 restricts it at all

chrislad wrote: »

At the end of the day, it's a great deal. You have to look at how much it will save you monthly. Is it worth putting down 50e, which you will get back either a) after 6 months or b) if you decide to switch back to another network or PayG

True. I never understood the mentality of people who say that because it's more upfront they can't afford the cheaper option. It's only €50 and will save you probably five times that over a year

cojomo2

Sam Vimes wrote: »

True. I never understood the mentality of people who say that because it's more upfront they can't afford the cheaper option. It's only €50 and will save you probably five times that over a year

Well for me its the principle of being asked for a deposit upfront, I don't like it, and I'm not alone. If i had a bad credit rating, or if i didn't pay up on time with a previous operator , then I would understand why, and wouldn't have a problem with it.

As regards being such a great deal, it is, but for me, its nothing special, as i make about 300 mins of calls/month, roughly half of which are to other 3 numbers, my total bill with 3 would be about 29 euro vs. 25 with Meteor, plus I have to put up with a crap data plan.

Anyway, Meteor told me that new data plans will be here very shortly ..that coupled with a small saving of about a 5er a month on my bill, I decided to give them a shot. Not only this, but I admired them for their bill pay lite 25 plan, I thought it would shake up the market a bit and get other operators to get their arse in gear...

But I'm starting to think twice now, this deposit, plus another deposit to activate roaming(or wait 3 months) is good way to push away potential new customers, especially ones coming from 3irl, where roaming is automatically turned on with no deposit, and (for me anyway) no initial deposit required.

Deposit this, deposit that..its called Bill pay LITE, helloooo?

Just to repeat, I have no issue with them asking students/unemployed/ people with bad credit history for a deposit..their credit control system needs an overhaul if you ask me, as its loosing them alot more revenue than its saving them..

Sam Vimes

Only financial institutions can check your credit rating so meteor cannot use that as criteria. And remember that just because you fill in the form saying you're a home owner of ten years with a steady job doesn't mean you are. If anything people who say they're unemployed are less risky because they know they're not lying to up their score. They're not worried about someone not being able to pay a €25 a month bill, they're worried about someone giving fake details, making €10000 worth of calls to Kenya and throwing the sim away

The only people who object in principle to this deposit are people who don't understand its purpose, that's it essentially a random process used to discourage fraud and is not an indictment on you in any way. I'd prefer they didn't have it because it loses a lot of customers but all the networks do it so they've obviously decided that it's worth losing some customers to prevent fraud.

Bondvillain

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's not really a good point tbh because the calls on O2 pre pay are a lot more expensive. She will end up out of pocket, she's just paying it over a few months instead.

Sorry, I should have specified the details. It was a good point in her case, as with the o2 offer she got a phone (Nokia 2600) and as she intended the meteor BPL10 to be simply a kind of emergency "contact" number, outgoing call pricing would be pretty much irrelevant, as calls would be so minimal & texts so infrequent that the credit would last a considerable amount of time.

She had considered either a Meteor PAYG handset (but that's at least €50 and comes with far less call credit than o2's offer & requires registration) or a Meteor pay as you go sim (but that requires a €10 or €20 credit purchase, and a handset), she figured she'd go the whole hog and sign up for the lowest bill pay lite tariff for security and stick the sim in a second hand phone. (having the additional peace of mind of never running out of credit when on a contract, I suppose)

While I appreciate that the upfront payment is returned as credit after 6 months or so, The €100 upfront deposit without a handset rendered any potential saving on the few calls that would be made on it irrelevant, (not to mention the insinuation that you arent worthy of receiving a sim card without a hefty deposit, which kinda crushes the feelgood factor, although I know thats somewhat facetious) and the €50 Nokia from o2 with €50 credit became her contact phone.

Im not having a go at meteor, Im just saying that in this case, the €100 deposit made o2's offer more suitable to this particular customer.

drunkmonkey

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's not really a good point tbh because the calls on O2 pre pay are a lot more expensive. She will end up out of pocket, she's just paying it over a few months instead.



I wouldn't say that'e true with meteor because if you want roaming you have to pay a €60 deposit in store to activate it, which comes off your bill. Someone willing to pay more in store than they have to is unlikely to be a scammer. And with O2 you don't request them, you're either granted them with your credit score or not. I can't remember how vodafone deals with it and I don't think 3 restricts it at all

agree it was a very bad point...o2 suck donkey balls..

3 started restricting roaming from the 28th of June, there's some countrys your allowed roam in but any new customers will have roaming restricted and you may be asked to pay a deposit of €60 to activate full international roaming..It dosen't effect anyone on the network before the 28th (broadband etc) or anyone going to 3 like home countrys

Sam Vimes

Bondvillain wrote: »

Sorry, I should have specified the details. It was a good point in her case, as with the o2 offer she got a phone (Nokia 2600) and as she intended the meteor BPL10 to be simply a kind of emergency "contact" number, outgoing call pricing would be pretty much irrelevant, as calls would be so minimal & texts so infrequent that the credit would last a considerable amount of time.

That's fair enough so. She probably shouldn't have been signing up to bill pay in the first place tbh

Bondvillain wrote: »

Im not having a go at meteor, Im just saying that in this case, the €100 deposit made o2's offer more suitable to this particular customer.

O2 also does deposits and sometimes refuses customers outright which I've never seen meteor do. But yes, O2 pre pay was more suitable for that particular customer

cojomo2

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Only financial institutions can check your credit rating so meteor cannot use that as criteria. And remember that just because you fill in the form saying you're a home owner of ten years with a steady job doesn't mean you are. If anything people who say they're unemployed are less risky because they know they're not lying to up their score. They're not worried about someone not being able to pay a €25 a month bill, they're worried about someone giving fake details, making €10000 worth of calls to Kenya and throwing the sim away

The only people who object in principle to this deposit are people who don't understand its purpose, that's it essentially a random process used to discourage fraud and is not an indictment on you in any way. I'd prefer they didn't have it because it loses a lot of customers but all the networks do it so they've obviously decided that it's worth losing some customers to prevent fraud.

In all fairness, if someone was planning on making 10,000 worth of phone calls and throwing the sim away, I don't think a 50 euro deposit would stop them..

Well I have experience with Vodafone and 3Irl, neither asked me for a deposit for 'premium numbers', or to enable roaming..only Meteor seem to do this...

At the end of the day, I am signing a direct debit and signing a contract..I don't see why they need a 50 euro deposit...If I was a scammer and wanted to make thousands of euro worth of calls without paying, a 50 euro deposit isn't much of a deterrent...

Bondvillain

Sam Vimes wrote: »

That's fair enough so. She probably shouldn't have been signing up to bill pay in the first place tbh

Maybe, but I can see the reasoning though - Bill pay lite 10 means you're always contactable, the Direct debit means no hunting for change to buy regular credit, and bearing in mind she's in the medical profession, she's not hunting around at 5 a.m. looking for somewhere open to buy credit in an emergency if she did have to make a call etc.

Sam Vimes

cojomo2 wrote: »

In all fairness, if someone was planning on making 10,000 worth of phone calls and throwing the sim away, I don't think a 50 euro deposit would stop them..

It will if they can go next door to the O2 store and not get asked

cojomo2 wrote: »

Well I have experience with Vodafone and 3Irl, neither asked me for a deposit for 'premium numbers', or to enable roaming..only Meteor seem to do this...

3 are bringing it in now as DM pointed out. I can't remember what voda do but O2 will just refuse you roaming and not give you an option to override it.

cojomo2 wrote: »

At the end of the day, I am signing a direct debit and signing a contract..I don't see why they need a 50 euro deposit

Because the direct debit might be fraudulent and the signature might be forged. Simple as that

Sam Vimes

Bondvillain wrote: »

Maybe, but I can see the reasoning though - Bill pay lite 10 means you're always contactable, the Direct debit means no hunting for change to buy regular credit, and bearing in mind she's in the medical profession, she's not hunting around at 5 a.m. looking for somewhere open to buy credit in an emergency if she did have to make a call etc.

Good point except that you can do text top up with AIB, BOI and meteor directly any time

Bondvillain

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Good point except that you can do text top up with AIB, BOI and meteor directly any time

Very true.

Depends on your level of technical competence though - Back when text top up was introduced, my sister spent a week trying and failing to get top ups over the phone, only to have it pointed out to her that he was actually texting the top-up message to her local Credit Union, which she had saved in her phone book under "CREDIT".

Gobsh*te.

chrislad

cojomo2 wrote: »

But I'm starting to think twice now, this deposit, plus another deposit to activate roaming(or wait 3 months) is good way to push away potential new customers, especially ones coming from 3irl, where roaming is automatically turned on with no deposit, and (for me anyway) no initial deposit required.

Deposit this, deposit that..its called Bill pay LITE, helloooo?

It's not technically a deposit for roaming. Your options are to pay 60e upfront, which is immediately taken off your next bill, so it's just paying your bill in advance. That or once you have your first two bills paid, the restriction will be lifted for free.