Confused by Letter from Social Welfare Office

Morzadec

Ok bit of background first...

Just finished college in May (completed degree, not going back). Through my 4 years at college I worked a part-time job roughly 12 hours a week and close to full-time hours over Christmas and Summer Holidays.

Still have this job but hours are scarce. I'm continuing to get the same hours I got in college but am available and willing to work more. Got substantially more in July but this is a one-off month. Basically I am out of college so am available for full-time work but I am only bringing in maybe 150e a week max at the moment. It will likely be significantly less come September, as I have been filling in for fulltimers on holiday this month.

I applied for a partial dole type thing, in which I could keep my job but it would be topped up depending on how many days in the week I work. Applied for this in June and since then have been sending away slips signed by my manager informing them the days I was employed/not employed.


They told me I would have to wait 4 months for means testing as I am still living at home unfortunately.

I got a letter today from the welfare office that stated the following (I've edited out some of the less important/repeated stuff:

'I have decided that Unemployment Benefit is not payable to you on the grounds that you have not sustained a substantial loss of employment from that which is deemed to have been your normal level of employment.

To sustain a substantial loss of employment, a person must lose at least one day's employment per week, together with a reduction in earnings.

Your normal level of employment is 2 days per week. This is calculated on the basis of your pattern of employment in the period from 16/03/09 to 14/06/09. You are currently working 2 days per week and have not therefore sustained a loss of employment.

If you are unhappy with this decision you may submit any relevant facts or evidence to this office and the decision will be reviewed by the deciding officer.'

And then in the Deciding Officer's handwriting at the bottom of the letter it says:

'Your claim to Jobseekers Allowance is still under consideration'

This last part confuses me? What exactly is the difference between Unemployment Benefit and Jobseekers Allowance?


And also in reference to my rejection on the grounds that I have not suffered 'substantial loss', this somewhat surpirsed me.

The time period that they base their decision on is the last few months of college when I was doing my dissertation and studying for exams! Obviously was not working a huge amount as I had other priorities. Surely this isn't fair? I have in fact suffered a loss, as I was working a good bit more the last 3 summers than I have been this summer. But more to the point, basically I am out of college now and thus available for full-time work, so the fact I worked part-time during college shouldn't really come into it should it? My friend dropped out of college (didn't work while he was in it) and is getting 205 euro a week. He certainly didn't suffer any 'substanial loss' as there was nothing to lose in the first place. By September I will probably be earning 50-100e working a few hours, I don't get how this works?

The other thing that is slightly annoying is that many of these 'days' that I am supposedly working are only 3 hour shifts. Im earning 27 quid these day, yet it is included as a 'days' work.

Does anyone think I have grounds for appeal? Or should I wait on the outcome of my JSA application (still completely confused as to how this differs from what I was rejected from.)

Would I be better off just quitting my job and reapplying for the full dole? I don't get the point in working if it excludes me from earning anything near the amount I would be getting if I'm not working

Apologies for the long post, if anyone has any advice it'd be much appreciated. Been waiting on this all summer. Parents are charging me rent from September so my 50-100e a week will be barely enough to cover that so I'm gonna have almost no income unless I can find something or sort this out soon.

tommy21

Morzadec wrote: »

Ok bit of background first...

Just finished college in May (completed degree, not going back). Through my 4 years at college I worked a part-time job roughly 12 hours a week and close to full-time hours over Christmas and Summer Holidays.

Still have this job but hours are scarce. I'm continuing to get the same hours I got in college but am available and willing to work more. Got substantially more in July but this is a one-off month. Basically I am out of college so am available for full-time work but I am only bringing in maybe 150e a week max at the moment. It will likely be significantly less come September, as I have been filling in for fulltimers on holiday this month.

I applied for a partial dole type thing, in which I could keep my job but it would be topped up depending on how many days in the week I work. Applied for this in June and since then have been sending away slips signed by my manager informing them the days I was employed/not employed.


They told me I would have to wait 4 months for means testing as I am still living at home unfortunately.

I got a letter today from the welfare office that stated the following (I've edited out some of the less important/repeated stuff:

'I have decided that Unemployment Benefit is not payable to you on the grounds that you have not sustained a substantial loss of employment from that which is deemed to have been your normal level of employment.

To sustain a substantial loss of employment, a person must lose at least one day's employment per week, together with a reduction in earnings.

Your normal level of employment is 2 days per week. This is calculated on the basis of your pattern of employment in the period from 16/03/09 to 14/06/09. You are currently working 2 days per week and have not therefore sustained a loss of employment.

If you are unhappy with this decision you may submit any relevant facts or evidence to this office and the decision will be reviewed by the deciding officer.'

And then in the Deciding Officer's handwriting at the bottom of the letter it says:

'Your claim to Jobseekers Allowance is still under consideration'

This last part confuses me? What exactly is the difference between Unemployment Benefit and Jobseekers Allowance?


And also in reference to my rejection on the grounds that I have not suffered 'substantial loss', this somewhat surpirsed me.

The time period that they base their decision on is the last few months of college when I was doing my dissertation and studying for exams! Obviously was not working a huge amount as I had other priorities. Surely this isn't fair? I have in fact suffered a loss, as I was working a good bit more the last 3 summers than I have been this summer. But more to the point, basically I am out of college now and thus available for full-time work, so the fact I worked part-time during college shouldn't really come into it should it? My friend dropped out of college (didn't work while he was in it) and is getting 205 euro a week. He certainly didn't suffer any 'substanial loss' as there was nothing to lose in the first place. By September I will probably be earning 50-100e working a few hours, I don't get how this works?

The other thing that is slightly annoying is that many of these 'days' that I am supposedly working are only 3 hour shifts. Im earning 27 quid these day, yet it is included as a 'days' work.

Does anyone think I have grounds for appeal? Or should I wait on the outcome of my JSA application (still completely confused as to how this differs from what I was rejected from.)

Would I be better off just quitting my job and reapplying for the full dole? I don't get the point in working if it excludes me from earning anything near the amount I would be getting if I'm not working

Apologies for the long post, if anyone has any advice it'd be much appreciated. Been waiting on this all summer. Parents are charging me rent from September so my 50-100e a week will be barely enough to cover that so I'm gonna have almost no income unless I can find something or sort this out soon.

I would certainly appeal, arguing your case as you have done above. Just my two cents though wait until a more experienced board member comments before doing anything.

Black Lead

Morzadec wrote: »

Would I be better off just quitting my job and reapplying for the full dole? I don't get the point in working if it excludes me from earning anything near the amount I would be getting if I'm not working

Thats the problem with the system its calculated on days not hours worked you could work 5 3 hour days and get nothing from the dole office but if you worker 3 5 hours days you would get something, Stupid isn't it and its this reason thats bred an attitude of "I'll get more on the dole" to part time employment. While I wouldn't tell you to quit the job speak to dole office and place of employment and try to come to some kind of positive outcome but like the dole office said you haven't losted any work so your not entitled to any payment.

I was in a similar situation some years ago and after 6 weeks of low pay I had no option but to leave my job.

cee_jay

Of course you have the right to appeal, however it might not be successful, and you could be waiting 6-12months for a decision from the appeals officer.

From DSFA website:

To qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit you must:

Be unemployed (you must be fully unemployed or unemployed for at least 3 days in 6)
Be under 66 years of age
Have enough social insurance (PRSI) contributions
Be capable of work
Be available for and genuinely seeking work
Have a substantial loss of employment and as a result be unemployed for at least 3 days in 6.

In fact, as I was reading down your post, the first thing I thought was there is no substantial loss.
For Jobseeker's Allowance, you do not have to satisfy the substantial loss condition, which is why you may qualify for this instead.

Basically, a lot of students are in the same situation as yourself. Your hours/pay from work haven't been reduced and therefore you don't satisfy the conditions for receipt of Jobseeker's Benefit.

Lollipops23

appeal; when i originally rang up to enquire(i'm in identical circumstances as you) i was told i "probably" wouldn't get anything as i hadn't lost anything.

but after i thought about it i realised that, actually i had lost my full-time education. i have also being applying for jobs left,right and centre!

but when i went in and told the people in the office my circumstances they barely even mentioned college!and i got my JSB! appeal it.