Protestant or Roman Catholic??

tosh_thedude

Okay, So a friend of mine is job Hunting, and he's got a potentical Job Interview in the North and the company he applied for the job with has sent him a 'Monitoring Form' (Well this is what they are calling it) stating the following....

MONITORING QUESTIONNAIRE:

This form asks you to provide information on your community background (perceived religious affiliation).

Why do we need this information?

We are an Equal Opportunities employer. We do not discriminate on the grounds of religious belief or political opinion. We practice equality of opportunity in employment and select the best person for the job.

To demonstrate our commitment to equality of opportunity in employment we need to monitor the community background (perceived religious affiliation) of our employees and job applicants as required by the Fair Employment (NI) Order 1998.

Regardless of whether we practice religion, most of us in Northern Ireland are seen as either Catholic or Protestant. We are therefore asking you to help us by indicating your community background below. The information will be treated in strictest confidence and used only for monitoring purposes, after the interview has taken place.

I am a member of the Protestant Community

I am a member of the Roman Catholic Community

I am a member of neither the Protestant nor
Roman Catholic Community

Could you please indicate whether you are: Female Male

If you do not complete this questionnaire, we are encouraged to use the “residuary” method which means that we can make a determination on the basis of personal information on file/application form.

Note: It is a criminal offence under the legislation for a person to “give false information … in connection with the preparation of the monitoring return”.


My friend in question has studied in the North for a 4 years and he's lived down south for most of his life, so my question is really.... why?? Why would a company ask about your Religious stance if they 'do not discriminate'? Anyways, My mates a catholic.... born into it but doesnt go to church unless somebody's die or got married. So what he wants to know is WHAT should he put down on this form?? He really wants this job... recession n all. ;-)

I hope this is in the right place Admin's.

Alun

tosh_thedude wrote: »

To demonstrate our commitment to equality of opportunity in employment we need to monitor the community background (perceived religious affiliation) of our employees and job applicants as required by the Fair Employment (NI) Order 1998.

My friend in question has studied in the North for a 4 years and he's lived down south for most of his life, so my question is really.... why?? Why would a company ask about your Religious stance if they 'do not discriminate'?

I'd say the answer is contained in the text you quoted, isn't it?

AARRRGH

It's a tricky one, because if they discriminate it could go either way... or maybe they'll be using reverse discrimination and it could go the opposite way. But it's probably harmless.

Personally I'd just be honest. In my case that's handy enough as I'm agnostic.

Mrs OBumble

tosh_thedude wrote: »

To demonstrate our commitment to equality of opportunity in employment we need to monitor the community background (perceived religious affiliation) of our employees and job applicants as required by the Fair Employment (NI) Order 1998.
....

If you do not complete this questionnaire, we are encouraged to use the “residuary” method which means that we can make a determination on the basis of personal information on file/application form.

Note: It is a criminal offence under the legislation for a person to “give false information … in connection with the preparation of the monitoring return”.


... my question is really.... why?? Why would a company ask about your Religious stance if they 'do not discriminate'? .... So what he wants to know is WHAT should he put down on this form??

The answer to WHY is pretty obvious from what you've typed up there: they want to monitor, and the government wants them to monitor, and the government tells them "If you don't know, made the best guess you can based on what you know". They could have just guessed. Instead, they're asking. Fair play to them.

If they want to discriminate based on "perceived community", they wouldn't need a form to help: a few questions interview about where he went to school and what challenges he faced there would tell them all they needed to know.

He should either not answer (leave it blank), or tell the truth (as he "perceives" it). The only thing he should not do is lie.

AARRRGH

I agree with JustMary. If they were anti-Catholic, it's unlikely they'd invite someone from the Republic for a job interview.

And if they want to discriminate, they'll do it. Your friend can't control this.

mike65

Tick option C

John Mason

each company in the north must employ a certain number of catholics and prosentants (it used to be 50/50 but they may have changed this).

It would be good for your friend to say that he is catholic, as there are less catholics in the north and a lot of companies have problems getting the catholic numbers.

i have a friend from belfast who as not given a job because they couldnt get the relavent number of catholics, she just went on a waiting list until the required number of catholics signed up and then she got in.

It is positive discremination

dlofnep

It's due to equality purposes.

xabi

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

each company in the north must employ a certain number of catholics and prosentants (it used to be 50/50 but they may have changed this).

It would be good for your friend to say that he is catholic, as there are less catholics in the north and a lot of companies have problems getting the catholic numbers.

i have a friend from belfast who as not given a job because they couldnt get the relavent number of catholics, she just went on a waiting list until the required number of catholics signed up and then she got in.

It is positive discremination

LOL - unless she was going for a job in the PSNI.

Eoin

This is stupid. I hate reverse disrcimination. Surely if they don't ask at all, then that would mean that religion isn't a factor at all in the hiring process.

bobbysands81

eoin wrote: »

This is stupid. I hate reverse disrcimination. Surely if they don't ask at all, then that would mean that religion isn't a factor at all in the hiring process.

Reverse discrimination is STILL discrimination and should not happen.

The best person suited for the job should always get the job.

Eoin

I agree totally.

jkmanc1974

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

each company in the north must employ a certain number of catholics and prosentants (it used to be 50/50 but they may have changed this).

It would be good for your friend to say that he is catholic, as there are less catholics in the north and a lot of companies have problems getting the catholic numbers.

i have a friend from belfast who as not given a job because they couldnt get the relavent number of catholics, she just went on a waiting list until the required number of catholics signed up and then she got in.

It is positive discremination

Think that applied myself for a similar position late last week with the Catholic/Protestant question.......never knew that companies in NI had the above rule though?

Brgds
Johnny

herya

Yh how do you put down atheist or agnostic?

Can you refuse filling this form or ask to fill it at the end of the recruiting process (if it's not a factor in it as they say)?

xabi

jkmanc1974 wrote: »

Think that applied myself for a similar position late last week with the Catholic/Protestant question.......never knew that companies in NI had the above rule though?

Brgds
Johnny

They dont!

Eoin

herya wrote: »

Yh how do you put down atheist or agnostic?

Can you refuse filling this form or ask to fill it at the end of the recruiting process (if it's not a factor in it as they say)?

3rd option:

I am a member of neither the Protestant nor Roman Catholic Community

It does appear to be a factor. I just don't think it should be.

herya

eoin wrote: »

3rd option:

I am a member of neither the Protestant nor Roman Catholic Community

Cheers, I thought that this one indicates that you are a member of a religious community just neither of the two listed.

eoin wrote: »

It does appear to be a factor. I just don't think it should be.

I agree.

Purely theoretically, if there is indeed a bias wouldn't the third option be the safest?

ardmacha

Implying that you are a member of neither community might not be wise. Employment is supposed to reflect the makeup of the population, where there are not so many who are nothing. If there was already an nobody working there they might not want another one.

Eoin

herya wrote: »

Cheers, I thought that this one indicates that you are a member of a religious community just neither of the two listed.

I wouldn't infer that from the question.

herya wrote: »

I agree.

Purely theoretically, if there is indeed a bias wouldn't the third option be the safest?

Who knows! If you were RC at some stage, then that might work in your favour if they need to bump the numbers up. It's ridiculous.

Dun

I've filled in dozens of those forms. Basically when you apply for a job, university, grants, etc. you fill them in. When your application goes back, they remove the monitoring form and it doesn't stay with your application. Since it doesn't show personal information it's not linked to an application. I don't believe the thing about the positive/reverse discrimination though, it's just statistics to show up if something is going badly wrong somewhere.

donaghs

AARRRGH wrote: »

Personally I'd just be honest. In my case that's handy enough as I'm agnostic.

If you were born in Ireland of parents who were both Catholic or both Protestant you'd be viewed as a "cultural Protestant" or a "Cultural Catholic". I can't find it on the web now, but there was a news story in recent years about a guy who was refused a job on the basis of being one or the other - based on his surname. There were quotas in place to help minorities. I think he was able to prove that he was more in the other other camp based on the school he went to.

mikemac

I know the PSNI had a 50:50 policy but that was a few years back so may be gone now.
It was reverse discrimination.

But the question the OP mentioned is totally standard. Having worked in Belfast it's on many application forms, the one I completed anyway when looking for employment

SarahMc

Dun wrote: »

I've filled in dozens of those forms. Basically when you apply for a job, university, grants, etc. you fill them in. When your application goes back, they remove the monitoring form and it doesn't stay with your application. Since it doesn't show personal information it's not linked to an application. I don't believe the thing about the positive/reverse discrimination though, it's just statistics to show up if something is going badly wrong somewhere.

Thats correct, when I worked as a receptionist, when job apps came in, the monitoring form would be numbered, and the app form and then separated. The interviewing/shortlisting panel never seen the monitoring form. It was only used for statistical analysis after appointment.

Mrs OBumble

eoin wrote: »

This is stupid. I hate reverse disrcimination. Surely if they don't ask at all, then that would mean that religion isn't a factor at all in the hiring process.

Religion isn't a factor, and isn't what they're talking about.

Community membership is. If someone was raised Catholic, but then adopted a different religious belief (CoI, agnostic, Jedi, wiccan, whatever), they will still have significant relationships in the Catholic community, and still be viewed as "catholic" by many people from the protestant community. Ditto if they were raised in most parts of the Protestant community (hmm, do you have any Exclusive Brethern here?)

Eoin

Then should they not put down their political allegiance? Edit - and I'm not talking about the PSNI, as I don't believe the OP is talking about it.