Avoiding Mr. Nice Guy

LegacyUser

We are all familiar with 'nice guy' syndrome. It occurs all the time, and even appears in a number of threads not far from this one.

I am a nice guy. I used to be a doormat. I had no self confidence for years, the result of which was, I tried too hard to be the nice guy, doing everything everyone wanted, to be 'accepted.' I ended up very depressed. I think I had been very mildly depressed all along, but it became acute when I realised my life was not my own. Nothing in my life was of my choice, it was done to please others.

So I went through a depressed phase. I chewed the furniture in frustration, wrung my hands, lay in bed all morning staring at the ceiling. And thought. Thought everything through, and began to realise slowly where I was going wrong. I saw a counsellor, but in reality, everything she suggested was occuring to me anyway.

So now I am in a strange place. I am a self confident nice guy! Everything I do now is for me. If I can accommodate others, that's great, but it is on my terms. I have no problem putting someone straight, although I avoid unpleasantness, simply because I don't like it. There is a small element of me that would explode if someone pushed me too far, but the situation never arises, as I smell trouble and ward it off diplomatically.

But I am still a nice guy! I go out on loads of dates, where before I couldn't go on any. I am totally relaxed, maybe too relaxed, in girls' company, where before I was a nervous wreck. I have one major problem. There is a twenty year hole in my life, where I could not hold down a proper relationship, and where for all intents and purposes, I was a failure in life. When a girl asks me about that period in my life, I have no good answer to give.

So my questions are, 1) How do I explain away twenty years of failure and lack of self confidence? 2) This is the BIG question, HOW do I avoid being a nice guy? Specifically, can you tell me five things I should not do, or five things I should do? I have the confidence now to carry it off, where I did not before. But I still seem to be doing something wrong, as I remain everyone's 'best friend' and no more.

shellyboo

Misterniceguy wrote: »

We are all familiar with 'nice guy' syndrome. It occurs all the time, and even appears in a number of threads not far from this one.

I am a nice guy. I used to be a doormat. I had no self confidence for years, the result of which was, I tried too hard to be the nice guy, doing everything everyone wanted, to be 'accepted.' I ended up very depressed. I think I had been very mildly depressed all along, but it became acute when I realised my life was not my own. Nothing in my life was of my choice, it was done to please others.

So I went through a depressed phase. I chewed the furniture in frustration, wrung my hands, lay in bed all morning staring at the ceiling. And thought. Thought everything through, and began to realise slowly where I was going wrong. I saw a counsellor, but in reality, everything she suggested was occuring to me anyway.

So now I am in a strange place. I am a self confident nice guy! Everything I do now is for me. If I can accommodate others, that's great, but it is on my terms. I have no problem putting someone straight, although I avoid unpleasantness, simply because I don't like it. There is a small element of me that would explode if someone pushed me too far, but the situation never arises, as I smell trouble and ward it off diplomatically.

But I am still a nice guy! I go out on loads of dates, where before I couldn't go on any. I am totally relaxed, maybe too relaxed, in girls' company, where before I was a nervous wreck. I have one major problem. There is a twenty year hole in my life, where I could not hold down a proper relationship, and where for all intents and purposes, I was a failure in life. When a girl asks me about that period in my life, I have no good answer to give.

So my questions are, 1) How do I explain away twenty years of failure and lack of self confidence? 2) This is the BIG question, HOW do I avoid being a nice guy? Specifically, can you tell me five things I should not do, or five things I should do? I have the confidence now to carry it off, where I did not before. But I still seem to be doing something wrong, as I remain everyone's 'best friend' and no more.

1) You don't have to explain anything. It's nobody's business but your own. If you feel like you have to say something, there's no shame in telling them the truth - you were lacking in confidence, but now you've sorted it out and are a better person. Tbh, I wouldn't be too concerned about telling anyone unless you're getting into a serious relationship with them, it doesn't really matter.

2) There is no magic formula, unfortunately. You seem to have picked one thing (being too nice) as your barrier to having a relationship. Now that you've sorted this, it's still not happened, and you're stuck. Well... welcome to the dating game. There are thousands of perfectly eligible people out there who are single for no reason other than they just haven't met the right person yet. You have to give it time.

beks101

Misterniceguy wrote: »

1) How do I explain away twenty years of failure and lack of self confidence? .

You say this like it's this big dark dirty secret. So you struggled with confidence issues for a while, went through a depression. You didn't murder anyone!
I'd say most of the population have been through something similar, it's called growing up and it aint easy! I don't mean to make light of it, obviously those were tough, tough years for you but you certainly didn't 'fail' at anything, and you definitely don't need to apologise for, or justify your behaviour to anyone!
I used to have blonde hair as a kid, I used to be a little bit overweight, I had a few tough teenage years...if these come up in conversation, I might divulge but I don't feel obliged to offer an explanation to anyone!

Misterniceguy wrote: »

2) This is the BIG question, HOW do I avoid being a nice guy? Specifically, can you tell me five things I should not do, or five things I should do? I have the confidence now to carry it off, where I did not before. But I still seem to be doing something wrong, as I remain everyone's 'best friend' and no more.

The way you've phrased this question is very telling. You've gained in confidence but you're still overly concerned with pleasing other people and living up to others' expectations of you. Why?
After what you've been through, what YOU think and how YOU feel about yourself and your life should be top of the list.
The dating game is a mindfield, you could tick all the conventional boxes and match all the criteria that some of its players have and still find yourself single, so please DON'T use this as a barometer of your self worth.
And quit listening to those pop psychology clichés about 'nice guys' and the like. Women generally aren't attracted to door mats, guys who have a low opinion of themselves and put the woman on a pedastal/can't stand up to them etc etc and that's often what 'nice guys' embody in all those dating books...

Any woman worth the time of day isn't going to dismiss you because you're respectful and a genuine, nice guy, in the true sense of the word.

ilkhanid

Only twenty years? I envy you, I really do

drunkymonkey

Most people would respect you telling them about your past like that, they will see you as 'deep' whatever you want to call it, but obviously don't tell them straight away!

You were that way but you took your time out stopped, thought about it and were strong enough to overcome it and became a better person, thats something to be proud of! It shows strength and they will definitely respect it!

As for the Nice guy image that your trying to get rid of, don't think you have to become an as-shole to get a girl to like you the way you want them to, maybe learn how to flirt a little but keep up being a nice guy.....

As-sholes don't last long!
Good Luck!

thedeadpoet

Partially akin to what Monkey said, a large demographic would judge you as honest and essentially realistic.
Many people experience times of lacking in confidence, but you should embrace the facts that you've overcome the obstacle.

honru

If women see you no more than a friend then it is likely you are projecting a "friend" dynamic to women instead of "potential lover".

How comfortable are you with your sexuality? It will be difficult to spark sexual tension or chemistry if you sweep such aspects of yourself under the rug. Things to consider are eye contact, voice tone, proximity, being relaxed, etc.

mehmeh12

Become an asshole. Most girls in college fancied me a lot cos i totally ignored them. Its ironic but true. Haven't you noticed that its always the guys that look the part that actually get girls?

Terodil

mehmeh12 wrote: »

Become an asshole. Most girls in college fancied me a lot cos i totally ignored them. Its ironic but true. Haven't you noticed that its always the guys that look the part that actually get girls?

Nonsense.

Having a profile and character != being an asshole

mehmeh12

Huh? profile and character?

Yes because women are attracted to integrity and all those social goods that make society a better place to be. Im being sarcastic btw.

ilkhanid

Of course, for some nothing will work. Women will look and detect sickness, failure and dysfunction. Those men had better get used to being alone.

PhysiologyRocks

mehmeh12 wrote: »

Yes because women are attracted to integrity and all those social goods that make society a better place to be.

I am.

I believe that it's... nice to be nice. I don't mean be a doormat or anything. But I appreciate kindness in people.

herya

re: point 2, why do you need to change?

I love nice guys. There's nothing better than a decent, honest, funny, laid back, confident, interesting nice guy. FTW!!

Maybe you just need a little more time to meet the right nice girl then grab her and don't let her go.

Congrats on getting this far and leaving the doormat aspect behind you.

Four-Percent

I assume that these 5 things to go are in relation to, eh, getting your bit?Ah feck it, these will be useful anyway....


1. Walk with a swagger and slow right down when walking.The general idea is that you do things on your own terms; don't rush for anyone.

2. Make frequent and long-lasting eye contact with as many women as possible they'll get the message that you won't bow down to them and kiss their shoes.

3. DON'T BUY DRINKS! This is key. Any hint of subservience will automatically play you in the "nice guy" category, and in the majority of cases you will be blown off by women or ignored as "friend" material.
Instead, give a cheeky response and say something witty:
"No thanks, you look like you'll fall over if you have another drink!Why don't you buy me one?" This will set you apart from the masses of nice guys out there.


4. Be aloof, and even slightly uncaring. If a woman is bitching about her mates to you, don't go along with it- stroke your chin and say "and how does that really make you feel?" with a slight smirk.With any look women will get the message, and maybe punch you slightly on the arm.

5.Remember, you're the man! Being rejected by women is not the end of the world.Sooner or later, you'll start to believe your own body language, and you'll be sorted - all this becomes easier when you really believe that you're God's gift to women (tongue in cheek here!)

NickNolte

ilkhanid wrote: »

Of course, for some nothing will work. Women will look and detect sickness, failure and dysfunction. Those men had better get used to being alone.

Yeah, because women have a 6th sense and never end up with dysfunctional assholes.

CathyMoran

You are still young for one thing - you do not need to explain anything to anyone. Also what is wrong with being nice? I am happily married to a nice guy and never dated someone who was not nice, it was something essential for me.

honru

The problem with a label such as "nice guy" is that guys then assume that being nice is a bad or unattractive thing, and thus swing completely in the opposite direction.

Most of these so-called "nice guys" have hidden agendas, whether they want sex, attention, validation, a relationship, etc. A typical "nice guy" will believe that, through appeasement, a women will see what a great guy he is and thus feel attraction for him. The problem is that this behavior rarely works, hence why most "nice guys" remain "just friends".

So "nice guys" are not really "nice", it's just unconscious manipulation groomed through a fostering victim mentality.

I'm pointing this out so the OP doesn't feel like he can't be nice to women,. The problem arises when you act a certain way in order to "get" something from another person, rather than simply offering with no need to receive something in return.

NickNolte

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

The problem with a label such as "nice guy" is that guys then assume that being nice is a bad or unattractive thing, and thus swing completely in the opposite direction.

Most of these so-called "nice guys" have hidden agendas, whether they want sex, attention, validation, a relationship, etc. A typical "nice guy" will believe that, through appeasement, a women will see what a great guy he is and thus feel attraction for him. The problem is that this behavior rarely works, hence why most "nice guys" remain "just friends".

So "nice guys" are not really "nice", it's just unconscious manipulation groomed through a fostering victim mentality.

I'm pointing this out so the OP doesn't feel like he can't be nice to women,. The problem arises when you act a certain way in order to "get" something from another person, rather than simply offering with no need to receive something in return.

...and some guys are just genuinely nice, well-raised people without a hidden, selfish agenda.

Wompa1

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

The problem with a label such as "nice guy" is that guys then assume that being nice is a bad or unattractive thing, and thus swing completely in the opposite direction.

Most of these so-called "nice guys" have hidden agendas, whether they want sex, attention, validation, a relationship, etc. A typical "nice guy" will believe that, through appeasement, a women will see what a great guy he is and thus feel attraction for him. The problem is that this behavior rarely works, hence why most "nice guys" remain "just friends".

So "nice guys" are not really "nice", it's just unconscious manipulation groomed through a fostering victim mentality.

I'm pointing this out so the OP doesn't feel like he can't be nice to women,. The problem arises when you act a certain way in order to "get" something from another person, rather than simply offering with no need to receive something in return.

I'm a nice guy too...didn't get many women until the last 2 years. Nothing really changed my reasoning is that girls change when they grow up a bit and want a bit of stability but in hindsight I wish I had been more of an arsehole to girls and used them for sex more..I turned down girls for being too drunk or not wanting to have a one night stand or some crap like that and now I realise that I wasted my teens and should have thrown more caution to the wind