The burning of Cork

afatbollix

Anyone know any good books about the burning of cork ( id be more interested about learning about coming up to the burning of cork.

Theres a bit of info on the net but only about the event..


Any help would be great.

Dob74

afatbollix wrote: »

Anyone know any good books about the burning of cork ( id be more interested about learning about coming up to the burning of cork.

Theres a bit of info on the net but only about the event..


Any help would be great.

There's a book that was released last year titled the "Burning of Cork". It's available in Eason's, Waterstones and most other book stores in Cork. Maybe able to order it over the net or through a bookstore.

Nodin

afatbollix wrote: »

Anyone know any good books about the burning of cork ( id be more interested about learning about coming up to the burning of cork.

Theres a bit of info on the net but only about the event..


Any help would be great.

Oddly searching for "The burning of cork" turns up no result.....However, here ye go....
http://www.eason.ie/look/9781856355223/Burning-of-Cork/Gerry-White

McArmalite

Nodin wrote: »

Oddly searching for "The burning of cork" turns up no result.....However, here ye go....
http://www.eason.ie/look/9781856355223/Burning-of-Cork/Gerry-White

Interesting, the book says " With over five acres of the city destroyed and an estimated 20 million pounds worth of damage ". Did the british ever pay reparations for this destruction ? ( I'm doubtful, but I thought I'd ask )

afatbollix

they dident think it was there solders.. the parlament at the time called for more troops for cork

Dob74

McArmalite wrote: »

Interesting, the book says " With over five acres of the city destroyed and an estimated 20 million pounds worth of damage ". Did the british ever pay reparations for this destruction ? ( I'm doubtful, but I thought I'd ask )

They paid up, I am not sure was it part of the treaty or the ending of the economic war.
Today the side of Patrick Street with Roches and Brown Thomas(formly Cashes) is alot more attractive than the other side.
City Hall was also rebuilt and is one of the nicests building in Cork if not Ireland.
The British never admited guilt but they did pay up. So that is as good as admiting it.

Balmed Out

I could be wrong but i always thought the amount repaid was far less then the damage done.
The city hall was replaced and it was paid for by the British government but not for around ten years after the event. The previous city hall which i have only seen in photos was, in my opinion if anything even more impressive. The city's carenegie library was not replaced and the documents both buildings held can of course never be.
In addition large sections from dillons cross to the city centre were burned down.
The house of commons were even told that the fire spread from the rooftops around the top of patrick street to the city hall naturally without any assistance. Amazing considering the two blocks of buildings and river in between them that escaped the flames.

The scale of the damage was so bad that the dublin firebrigade which came down to assist described it as being worse then the damage done to dublin during the events of 1916.

McArmalite

Balmed Out wrote: »

I could be wrong but i always thought the amount repaid was far less then the damage done.
The city hall was replaced and it was paid for by the British government but not for around ten years after the event. The previous city hall which i have only seen in photos was, in my opinion if anything even more impressive. The city's carenegie library was not replaced and the documents both buildings held can of course never be.
In addition large sections from dillons cross to the city centre were burned down.
The house of commons were even told that the fire spread from the rooftops around the top of patrick street to the city hall naturally without any assistance. Amazing considering the two blocks of buildings and river in between them that escaped the flames.

The scale of the damage was so bad that the dublin firebrigade which came down to assist described it as being worse then the damage done to dublin during the events of 1916.

I heard that as the brits were burning and looting the city ( many of them visibly drunk ), that when the Cork firebrigade tried to stop the fires, the brits threatened to shoot them and cut their hoses open ? Possibly the Dublin fire brigade arrived the next day when the orgy of destruction was dying out ?

Balmed Out

thats true. The cork firebrigade which i think consisted of one truck were threathened to leave it alone at some sites.

MarchDub

McArmalite wrote: »

I heard that as the brits were burning and looting the city ( many of them visibly drunk ), that when the Cork firebrigade tried to stop the fires, the brits threatened to shoot them and cut their hoses open ? Possibly the Dublin fire brigade arrived the next day when the orgy of destruction was dying out ?

You're absolutely right on that one - here is a description of the destruction of Cork by the Tans and the information that the Fire Brigade was fired on by "Crown forces".

Shortly before dawn, two of Cork city's historic buildings would also be destroyed by flames. On Sunday 12 December Captain Huston received word that both City Hall and the nearby Carnegie Library had been put to the torch. Seven members of the fire brigade tried in vain to fight the flames and, like the buildings in Patrick Street, both places were completely destroyed. As they fought the flames the members of the fire brigade were subject to continuous harassment from crown forces, who fired on them, turned off hydrants and slashed hoses with their bayonets.

In his report to the Lord Mayor, Captain Huston [Superintendent of Cork City Fire brigade] wrote; "I have no hesitation in stating I believe all the above fires were incendiary fires and that a considerable amount of petrol or some such inflammable spirit was used in one and all of them. In some cases explosives were also used and persons were seen to go into and come out of the structures after breaking an entrance into same, and in some cases I have attended the people have been brought out of their houses and detained in by-lanes until the fire gained great headway".

http://homepage.eircom.net/~corkcounty/Timeline/Cork%20burning.htm

If you click on the link at the bottom of the page you will see a map of Cork showing the areas burned.

McArmalite

MarchDub wrote: »

You're absolutely right on that one - here is a description of the destruction of Cork by the Tans and the information that the Fire Brigade was fired on by "Crown forces".

Shortly before dawn, two of Cork city's historic buildings would also be destroyed by flames. On Sunday 12 December Captain Huston received word that both City Hall and the nearby Carnegie Library had been put to the torch. Seven members of the fire brigade tried in vain to fight the flames and, like the buildings in Patrick Street, both places were completely destroyed. As they fought the flames the members of the fire brigade were subject to continuous harassment from crown forces, who fired on them, turned off hydrants and slashed hoses with their bayonets.

In his report to the Lord Mayor, Captain Huston [Superintendent of Cork City Fire brigade] wrote; "I have no hesitation in stating I believe all the above fires were incendiary fires and that a considerable amount of petrol or some such inflammable spirit was used in one and all of them. In some cases explosives were also used and persons were seen to go into and come out of the structures after breaking an entrance into same, and in some cases I have attended the people have been brought out of their houses and detained in by-lanes until the fire gained great headway".

http://homepage.eircom.net/~corkcounty/Timeline/Cork%20burning.htm

If you click on the link at the bottom of the page you will see a map of Cork showing the areas burned.

I also believe their were also a lot of houses burned on the northside ( where the poorer people lived naturally, the yuppies were respected ofcourse ). Since most of the houses back then were thatched, the destruction would have been particularily bad.

afatbollix

Any one know why the soldiers did it? we all know it was for reprisals.. So what did the IRA do? Thats what i really need to find out.. And after the Burning of cork.. Did the IRA give up for fear of more attacks on the people of cork?

Balmed Out

There was an attack on British soldiers that day but the degree of organisation showed that it wasnt actually a spur of the moment job. No, county cork remained the most active area in the war of independance and the city saw its fair share of that.

Interesting recent article from peoples republic of cork website


Alfred J Hutson, The Fireman's Rest and the Burning of Cork


Alfred J. Hutson brought the burning of Cork to an
end.

Anyone who looks at history for any length of time cannot fail to be struck
by how often irony and black humour appears. Whilst one group of ex-British
Army servicemen were busy trying to turn our city into cinders on the night
of 11th December 1920, another group led by a Londoner and including some other
ex-British Army men were struggling desperately to fight the infernos. Thanks
to these men, no lives were lost and the damage to the city was contained.

The man in charge was Alfred J Hutson, and a singular person he appears
to have been. He was 71 at the time of the fires, and whilst nursing an injured
hip, he played a full part in the operation, sustaining a further injury, as
well as being shot at during 27 straight hours fighting the fires.

Hutson had taken the job of Superintendent in 1891, moving over from Sussex
with his wife and family (most of whom, slightly disturbingly, had "J"
as a middle initial). His predecessor had been demoted for incompetence, a charming
old-world custom which has somehow been overlooked by today's City Council.












The famous hut from the 'old' Pana.





As part of the improvements he made to the business of fighting fire in the
city, he extended a system of secondary fire stations each equipped with a reel
of hose and a ladder mounted on a cart. The well-known "Hut" which
stood on St. Patrick's Street until 2002 was the last-remaining element
of this system, although Corkonians will remember it as the place where you
could get the timetable for the buses, or report lost property.


The building, which was pre-fabricated by Walter MacFarlane & Co., of Glasgow,
dated to 1892 and originally stood near where the Capitol Cinema is/was.
It was moved in 1904 to near The Statue and was shared between the tram company
(by day) and the firemen (by night). The firemen referred to it as a "Rest".
It moved again in 2002 and currently languishes in a depot, awaiting further
use.


Hutson must have been something of a workaholic, leading the Brigade until 1927
(aged 78) and dying in Cork in 1933. It would be a fitting tribute to him
and the families of the three Cork firemen who have died in the service of our
City to have it restored as a small museum."

McArmalite

Here is the article from the Irish Independent regarding the burning of Cork and the excuses used in the House of Commons. It seems that since the destruction was of such preportions unlike the buning of villages and farm houses etc and the damage was done to the 'respectable' of Cork, that it couldn't be ignored or glossed over.

Also it seems that many of the English MP's recognised that the Tans and Auxilliary's ( although often referred to as the Tans, they were probably even worse than the Tans, hand picked officers with experience of fighting at the front in WW1 etc ) were a force out of control. Interesting also the so called Anti SF Society which was supposed to 2,000 strong in Cork, ( as if somehow they were responcible ? )

http://www.irishnewsarchive.com/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:LowLevelEntityToSaveGifMSIE_INA&Type=text/html&Locale=english-skin-custom&Path=IND/1920/12/15&ChunkNum=-1&ID=Ar00521&PageLabel=5

AI

Not specific on the burning of Cork, but there's a good little booklet which has quite a lot of stuff on the Cork IRA. Many first hand accounts of various IRA activities carried out at the time.

"Knockraha History and Folklore" published by the Knockraha History & Heritage Society.

I have done a bit of research into the Cork IRA. Bit of a hot topic so I ended up pulling all the pages from my own website.

MarchDub

McArmalite wrote: »

Here is the article from the Irish Independent regarding the burning of Cork and the excuses used in the House of Commons. It seems that since the destruction was of such preportions unlike the buning of villages and farm houses etc and the damage was done to the 'respectable' of Cork, that it couldn't be ignored or glossed over.

No, that degree of violence and brutality couldn't be ignored as you say - and entered history and lore.

Come Out Ye Black and Tans


I was born on a Dublin street where the Royal drums did beat
And the loving English feet they tramped all over us,
And each and every night when me father'd come home tight
He'd invite the neighbors outside with this chorus:
Chorus:
Oh, come out you Black and Tans,
Come out and fight me like a man
Show your wives how you won medals down in Flanders
But tell them how the IRA
Made you run like hell away,
From the green and lovely lanes in Killashandra.
Come let me hear you tell
How you slandered great Pernell,
When you thought them well and truly persecuted,
Where are the smears and jeers
That you bravely let us hear
When our heroes of '16 were executed.


Come tell us how you slew
Those brave Arabs two by two
Like the Zulus, they had spears and bows and arrows,
How you bravely slew each one
With your 16-pounder gun
And you frightened them poor natives to their marrow.
The day is coming fast
And the time is here at last,
When each yeoman will be cast aside before us,
And if there be a need
Sure my kids will sing, "Godspeed!"
With a verse or two of Steven Beehan's chorus.


Come Out Ye Black and Tans. By Dominic Behan (1929-89)