EEstor phone call leaked ..

zod

http://theeestory.com/topics/2529

full Audio here : http://www.4all.com/uploads/DW_Confcall_jun2009.mp3


for those that don't know the EEstor company is ( from Wikipedia )

EEStor is a company based in Cedar Park, Texas, United States that claims to have developed a revolutionary new type of capacitor for electricity storage, which EEStor calls 'Electrical Energy Storage Units' (EESU), [1]. EEStor claims the EESU can store far more electrical energy than any other type of capacitor, and that it could be used to propel a small car for about 300 miles[2]. This potential for making electric vehicles fully competitive with gasoline-powered vehicles has created much interest, although the company's claims have yet to be verified. EEStor's CEO and president is Richard Weir, who is also a co-inventor named on their principal technology patents

33:36

What we're telling the world. We're telling 'em this. Properly funded, $5M certainly does that. We anticipate being in a production base of proto ... of pre-production units in the fourth quarter this year. I'm already out there putting EESUs together and I'm still in June. So, it looks like I'm a little ahead of schedule. So, it looks like I can certainly meet that schedule. Get ZENN some prototypes here pretty ... I'm sorry. We don't make prototypes. Pre production units by the end of this year. Once I do that, all hell's going to break loose with them? ZENN? and at EEstor.

Morlar

Was there any effect on the company's share price after their telephone interview was 'leaked' ?

I think considering the first electric cars now have problems with poor batteries I would say this technology is several years away, even then it will take a few years in production to Iron out the major problems. If it could deliver the power of say a 1.8 car (& 300 mile mileage etc) then I think a lot of people would like the choice in which kind of car to buy - but it is a far way away yet in my opinion & I would be suspicous of such un-substantiated claims. Also it takes how long to refill a petrol car ? How long would it take to re-charge one powered by these batteries ?

zod

Morlar wrote: »

I think considering the first electric cars now have problems with poor batteries I would say this technology is several years away, even then it will take a few years in production to Iron out the major problems.

http://cleantech.com/news/4494/zenn-ceo-speaks-about-eestor-progre

Toronto-based Zenn Motor (TSX:ZNN) plans to incorporate ultracapacitors from stealthy EEStor into full-speed electric vehicles starting in 2010.
The news comes a day after EEStor received third-party verification that it passed its final technology milestone, leaving the company with the challenge of bringing its state-of-the-art energy storage system to commercial production

Morlar wrote: »

Also it takes how long to refill a petrol car ? How long would it take to re-charge one powered by these batteries ?

apparently 5 minutes!

The emission free City Zenn is expected to be a full highway compatible vehicle with the top speed of 80 mph (125kph) and the range of 250 miles (400 kilometres). It will be powered by EEStor and will charge in less than 5 minutes. This ultracapacitor powered vechile is expected to meet the transportation requirements of a many worldwide drivers.

http://www.ultracapacitors.org/ultracapacitors.org-blog/eestor-and-zenn-motors-fall-09.html

Shiny

The 5 minute charging time would be most likely applicable to
petrol stations and remote charging stations.

This sort of performance wouldn't be available on a domestic
power supply but in these locations perhaps the overnight
charge would be sufficient?

probe

Shiny wrote: »

The 5 minute charging time would be most likely applicable to
petrol stations and remote charging stations.

This sort of performance wouldn't be available on a domestic
power supply but in these locations perhaps the overnight
charge would be sufficient?

An overnight charge from home would be sufficient (ie equivalent to a “high bandwidth” connection at a filling station). Someone will also almost certainly sell “home energy stations” using EEstor capacitors. These will be able to take in power from home micro-generation units (solar, wind, hydro, etc – as well as the grid), store it in the capacitor bank, and make it available when needed. Plug your car into a home energy station, and you will be able to get a fast “tank up” at home. It will be just as fast as at a filling station. It will also enable you to store up your own micro-gen power and sell it into the grid when prices are highest (assuming you get two way smart metering, with market pricing).

Ireland is still stuck with no motorway service areas – essential for charging up on long distance journeys. They would provide the volume of customers to support the fat grid connections required – and are essential for safe motorway driving to provide a break, refreshment etc.

Carlos Ghosn, CEO of both Renault and Nissan announced a new Nissan all electric car today*. Renault is already big into the electric car business, and is the main supplier to Project Better Place**.

PBP has operations in Israel, Denmark, Japan, Australia, US and Canada. One wonders how Project Better Place will adapt if/when EEstor takes hold? Project Better Place is based on offering batteries as a service with a quick “drive thru car wash” style battery exchange at filling stations. They might have to go into the capacitor business, or become a buggy whip manufacturer!

Aside from Renault/Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Volkswagen have deep pockets (unlike Detroit) and will be interested in this technology. Dick Weir seems to me to be playing a google game (google didn’t have its IPO until the company was well established - understatement). He doesn’t seem to need much capital to get the show in production.

*http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/08/nissan-throws-an-ev-thunderbolt-the-leaf-.html

**http://www.betterplace.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn

zod

probe wrote: »

Carlos Ghosn, CEO of both Renault and Nissan announced a new Nissan all electric car today*. Renault is already big into the electric car business, and is the main supplier to Project Better Place**.

Yes .. but look at the depressing response for electric cars!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055638758

Morlar

I think the 5 min re-fill is a requirement as without that I can not see this taking hold outside of determined greenies who account for probably 1 % of the population.

How is this 'home overnight re-charging' going to work ?

Does this mean plugging your car into a glorified lock-able mains socket ?

What about people who live in apartment blocks or use kerbside parking ?

If it is the equivalent of a electrical socket - I am guessing it will need some kind of lock mechanism & a meter or payment method so my question would be - should every single public parking space have one of these ? If so where would the money for fitting them them come from ? Also maintaining them/repairing them updating them etc.

probe

zod wrote: »

Yes .. but look at the depressing response for electric cars!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055638758

Dinosaur petrol heads! I know a guy like this - he has a Porsche 911 GT2. He recently had a play with a Tesla www.teslamotors.com in CA and can't wait to take delivery of same.

A Tesla with an old fashioned battery can accellerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 4 sec. No gears to change - just put your foot down and break your neck...! A Tesla with EEstor type capacitor battery replacement would be able to deliver far more power to the motor in an instant. It might achieve 0 to 100 km/h in 2 secs or so!

The limitations would no longer be related to engine speed or acceleration. It would be down to the laws of physics in terms of tyre grip, road surface, cornering etc.

This Nissan electric car is not going to interest a petrol head - anymore than a former East German government produced Trabant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant might.

The biggest cost of the high performance electric car today is the battery, which is also slow to charge. The capacitor offers low cost (Dick Weir quoted a price of just $100 per kWh as their selling price), and quick to charge - a minute or two. ie about EUR 2,000 for capacitors rather than EUR 30,000 for a battery that takes ages to charge, is big, and has a limited life and is made from scarce raw materials.

So far, most electric cars involved a leased battery with a 30-60€ per week battery rental commitment - for ordinary small vehicles. If you can replace that with a capacitor that costs around 2k€ to buy outright, you are in a totally new game plan.

probe

Morlar wrote: »

I think the 5 min re-fill is a requirement as without that I can not see this taking hold outside of determined greenies who account for probably 1 % of the population.

The capacitor will take a lot less to charge than 5 mins, where the power hose has enough amps - as in a filling station.

How is this 'home overnight re-charging' going to work ?

Plug your car into the mains and go to bed - ditto at work if you wish (but don't go to bed!) - but most people don't need to drive 300km to and from work. Alternatively get a home energy station with its own capacitors to slowly charge up with power from any number of sources (the grid - offpeak preferably, a windmill, solar, micro-hydro, etc) and zap it into your car in under a minute.


It is akin to downloading a large file on the internet. If you have a dial-up connection, it might take all night. If you have 100 Mbits/sec broadband, the operation takes place a lot faster. Rather than putting "broadband" electricity cables into every house, you have the option of putting a capacitor to charge up and deliver the power at broadband speed to your vehicle. Not necessary - an option for those who want it. Large office buildings and plants have "broadband" electricity connections in place anyway - it is simply a matter of making power points available in the car parks.

Does this mean plugging your car into a glorified lock-able mains socket ?

It is up to your circumstances. You can park it and plug it into a regular 230 VAC socket.

What about people who live in apartment blocks or use kerbside parking ?

If you live in an apartment with an assigned space, you can have a powerpoint installed at your space. Under key if you live in an area that requires same. They have electric car charging in public car parks and on the street in my neighbourhood and in many other places. In the kerbside locations they look like parking meters with a cable. In public car parks, the charge is free - included in the parking fee paid by all vehicles. ICE car users are subsidizing e-cars!

If it is the equivalent of a electrical socket - I am guessing it will need some kind of lock mechanism & a meter or payment method so my question would be - should every single public parking space have one of these ? If so where would the money for fitting them them come from ? Also maintaining them/repairing them updating them etc.

In public locations like street spaces you can have a smart card system - insert your EMV Visa or MasterCard into the unit, enter your pin, and the parking and power charge fee is debited to your bank card.

Many car parks in Ireland read motorway toll RFID tags automatically, and the barrier opens without using a ticket - debiting the parking cost to your bank account. The same could apply to the energy component of the parking transaction.

PS: You can't fill your gasoline, diesel or LPG car today from home, at work or in a car park - unless these locations have a fuel storage and delivery infrastructure. The electric car is greatly broadening your options to tank up... And if you are someone who likes to keep a can of fuel in your car just in case, you can just as easily keep an EEstor type capacitor charged up in reserve in the boot! If you run out of power, the auto club service could charge your capacitor powered electric car just as easily as they could "jump start" a dead battery from another capacitor in their service vehicle.

zod

Paradigm Capital Inc., a privately owned investment dealer in Toronto, is in damage control after a confidential, 38-minute conference call relating to a client's equity offering mysteriously found its way onto YouTube.

The call was an interview with Dick Weir, co-founder and CEO of Texas energy-storage company EEStor Inc. EEStor is a secretive start-up developing what many are calling a "game-changing" battery system for electric cars, consumer electronics and energy storage on the grid.

Institutional investors who took part in Zenn's offering bought shares at $3.50. Since the filing of the prospectus on July 7 to when the audio recording was found online July 21, Zenn's shares jumped 45 per cent to $4.98. Yesterday, the shares rose 28 cents to $6.40.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/678190

probe

zod wrote: »

Paradigm Capital Inc., a privately owned investment dealer in Toronto, is in damage control after a confidential, 38-minute conference call relating to a client's equity offering mysteriously found its way onto YouTube.

The call was an interview with Dick Weir, co-founder and CEO of Texas energy-storage company EEStor Inc. EEStor is a secretive start-up developing what many are calling a "game-changing" battery system for electric cars, consumer electronics and energy storage on the grid.

Institutional investors who took part in Zenn's offering bought shares at $3.50. Since the filing of the prospectus on July 7 to when the audio recording was found online July 21, Zenn's shares jumped 45 per cent to $4.98. Yesterday, the shares rose 28 cents to $6.40.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/678190

That computes. I couldn’t understand why super-secretive Weir was all of a sudden spilling his secrets in an interview. Weir is another Steve Jobs. If someone at Apple leaks something immaterial like the colour of the next iPhone to the media in advance they get fired on the spot.

Zenn, a shareholder in EEstor is probably finding sales of electric cars to be slow in the current economic climate. They now have lots of cash (given the small size of their business) – they had about CAD 11 million on 31.3.09. They raised about CAD 9 million in the share issue just before the Weir interview was leaked. The company probably lost about CAD 4 million between 1.4.09 (last published results) and 31.7.09 (just a guess based on their latest results to March). So they now probably have about CAD 16 million in the bank.

While the leak contained material disclosures without a doubt, it was made after the share issue closed.

At least the leak will shut up some sceptics of EEstor. And it raises questions about US government funding of development of conventional battery technologies.... Time President Obama took an interest in capacitors... Not that one wishes government bureaucracy stifling EEstor. Just stop wasting scarce gov.us funds on research into improving the buggy whip!