Praying Father sent to prison

judomick

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8180116.stm

Views, comments appreciated

Dades

judomick wrote: »

Views, comments appreciated

Got any of your own?

(Posted here too.)

Gordon

Mental institution would be more apt.

Wacker

judomick wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8180116.stm

Views, comments appreciated

I guess he didn't pray hard enough, or to the right god!:pac:

Please note that I know my above comment was incredibly insensitive, but as we all know, you can write anything around these godless parts if you include the pacman smiley. Case closed.

What's most shocking is that it wasn't just the two parents that were present:

She died of a treatable disease - undiagnosed diabetes - at home in rural Wisconsin in March last year, as people surrounded her and prayed.

It does not specify how many people were present, but it's really shocking that none of them would figure of having a back-up plan of calling an ambulance (just in case the praying didn't work) until the poor girl stopped breathing.
Seriously, I hate reading stories like this, I really do. I'm not such a foaming at the mouth atheist that I want to ever use this sort of story as an example of a hazard of belief, because I don't think one should try making hay out of the needless death of a little girl. I just wish it never happened that one could make such a crass point if so inclined.

5uspect

Gordon wrote: »

Mental institution would be more apt.

Isn't that the interesting thing though? If he used Voodoo or treated her with dog faeces instead of prayer and faith healing this wouldn't be such a big story
(or any less tragic).

He would be declared a nut and that would be that. Since it's part of a mass delusion it somehow muddies the water. Some will say that what happened was God's will. Some will say that God doesn't work in that way and he only provides a warm fuzzy feeling etc. Some will even say that its better that the little girl died. I guess very few will say the whole thing is just crazy.

5uspect

Wacker wrote: »

It does not specify how many people were present, but it's really shocking that none of them would figure of having a back-up plan of calling an ambulance (just in case the praying didn't work) until the poor girl stopped breathing.

But isn't that the whole point of faith? You don't do Pascal's Wager, you head right into the Lions Den without a safety net and put all of your trust into your god with full confidence in his love.

Wacker

5uspect wrote: »

But isn't that the whole point of faith? You don't do Pascal's Wager, you head right into the Lions Den without a safety net and put all of your trust into your god with full confidence in his love.

I wonder would those same people refuse to wear seat-belts and have their air-bags removed, as they're sure that God is looking out for them.

5uspect

But you see that's a very different thing. A seat belt is part of the car technology. You're body and what drugs you put into it is a moral issue. Drugs are obtained immorally and the Bible clearly states that the Lord will cure the sick and punish the immoral. It makes no mention of cars.

Wacker

5uspect wrote: »

But you see that's a very different thing. A seat belt is part of the car technology.

I guess one of the reasons I'm an atheist is that I don't see these as different. You're either protecting you & yours by being smart, or you're relying on God to protect you. The specifics don't seem so important to me.

Your body and what drugs you put into it is a moral issue. Drugs are obtained immorally and the Bible clearly states that the Lord will cure the sick and punish the immoral. It makes no mention of cars.

This surprises me. I am far from being a Biblical scholar, but wasn't the Evangelist Luke a physician of some sort? Perish the though that there could be inconsistencies with how some people interpret the Bible and Christian morality!:pac:

5uspect

I don't understand it either and I'm constantly being told I don't understand so I'm trying to make some attempt at playing Devil's God's Advocate.

dvpower

She'll be in Heaven with God by now, so all's well that ends well.

ShooterSF

As I said in AH it makes no sense to me that a court who recognises such a god and has you swear to him to tell the truth could punish someone who prays to him. Afterall is he not supposed to decide when he calls his followers to heaven?

5uspect

Hence Zillah's point in the respect thread about fundies.

Corkfeen

Doubt prison would be a suitable location for him. He obviously went insane, an asylum sounds better. Its a sad case tbh.

ShooterSF

5uspect wrote: »

Hence Zillah's point in the respect thread about fundies.

I'm interested to see the reactions of your day to day christian on this and whether they think he was right or wrong and how they explain their side. I might need to bug a friend of mine who's training to be a priest :pac:

5uspect

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'm interested to see the reactions of your day to day christian on this and whether they think he was right or wrong and how they explain their side. I might need to bug a friend of mine who's training to be a priest :pac:

I'd say he's an interesting friend. There's very few like him around!

PZ Myers also blogged about this. He points out that they weren't adverse to technology also but simply believed, completely, that God would cure her.

Carsinian Thau

5uspect wrote: »

Drugs are obtained immorally and the Bible clearly states that the Lord will cure the sick and punish the immoral.

Could you explain this please? I don't really understand it.
How could it be against God to make antibiotics (for example) to save lives or to take them when you have an infection (to either get better faster or to live, depending on severity of infection)?

5uspect

I was making that point with tongue firmly in cheek.

A lot of fundies are highly suspicious of Science. They see stem cell research as a great evil for example. They have rather Frankenstien like views of medical research. They tend to prefer faith based approaches such as nonsence as Intelligent Design and faith healing.

This sums it up nicely I think:

Carsinian Thau

5uspect wrote: »

I was making that point with tongue firmly in cheek.

A lot of fundies are highly suspicious of Science. They see stem cell research as a great evil for example. They have rather Frankenstien like views of medical research. They tend to prefer faith based approaches such as nonsence as Intelligent Design and faith healing.

Sorry about that. I seem to be having one of my "more idiotic than usual" days today.

I'm aware that such attitudes exist and just kinda latched onto yours when I saw it. I guess that's what happens when I only glance through a thread. :rolleyes:

herya

I have a different question - why was the mother convicted earlier and the father only now? I can recall reading about several child abuse cases recently where mothers are dealt with straight away but the courts take their time with (present) fathers or let them go completely.