Question regarding LSR'S

gilmore

Hi everyone. I'm following one of Hal Higdon's marathon training schedules for Dublin and i've found that i'm not the best at controlling my pace. A big thing he specifies is to keep your LSR pace at 60 - 90 seconds below your planned race pace. Could anyone tell me why this is so important?
Thanks in advance.

christeb

Hi gilmore. I think the intensity is specified as that so as too keep your body pretty fresh for the constant training volumes involved. Anything faster (although Pfitzinger & Douglas give the wider range of 45-90 secs slower) and you'll put too much strain on your body and not be ready for your next tough session.

Peckham

Christeb is bang on. Marathon pace over long distances is unsustainable week-in/week-out (and if it is, that means you've set your goal too low). It puts huge demands on the body when you go above 15/16 miles and takes signficant recovery time, so is only done on the day itself.

Assuming this is your first marathon, I'd go with the advice he has on his website (except the bit about walking breaks, if you're planning to run the full 26.2 miles):

Normally I recommend that runners do their long runs anywhere from 45 to 90 seconds per mile slower than their marathon pace. The problem with offering this advice to novice runners, however, is that you probably don't know what your marathon pace is, because you've never run a marathon before! Don't worry. Simply do your long runs at a comfortable pace, one that allows you to converse with your training partners, at least during the beginning of the run. Toward the end, you may need to abandon conversation and concentrate on the act of putting one foot in front of the other to finish. However, if you find yourself finishing at a pace significantly slower than your pace in the first few miles, you probably need to start much slower, or include regular walking breaks. It's better to run too slow during these long runs, than too fast. The important point is that you cover the prescribed distance; how fast you cover it doesn't matter.

spaceylou

not to hyjack the thread but....for those of us working in kilometres how much slower should lsr pace be to race pace, or is it also 60 - 90 secs?......my maths suck!!

Pherekydes

60-90 secs per mile equates to 40-60 secs per km, approx.

spaceylou

Thank you very much!!

gilmore

Thanks for the feedback guys. At the moment my runs are averaging about 8 m/mile pace with the LSR' S at roughly 8:15 pace. My longest run ta date has been 12 miles (pretty much hanging after it) and there's no way i'd be able to run a marathon at this pace, (my target is 4 hours). I'll definately have to start doing the long runs at 9:30 to 10:00 m/min pace. Thanks again.

macinalli

Hi Gilmore,
I'm also aiming for a sub 4 in Dingle and I've been using McMillans pace calculator for help with my training. In my case (and I think yours too) it says that slow runs should be between 9.15 and 10.15 per mile, 'steady' runs 8.20-8.40 per mile and so on. Handy for picking what pace to run at! Link.

On a separate matter, how often do people drink on their LSRs? I used to do 10 miles handy without water and then drink afterwards but lately the mileage has gone up and I think I'm a bit casual with this. Last 3 LSRs were 15, 15 and 17, both with 1 water stop around half-way. I take an isotonic drink straight after the run and then water regularly but later that day get hit by bad headaches - any tips?

TFBubendorfer

Pure water works best for me personally. Others prefer sports drink.You have to find out yourself, I'm afraid.

But if you get headaches every time, I suggest you try doing things differently until you come up with a method that works better. Try eating a small snack (maybe yoghurt, or some fruit) straight after your run to replenish your body.

christeb

I find 500ml of chocolate milk does wonders to get the energy levels right back up after an LSR, preferably drank in the shower!

mack10

I did my first 10 mile LSR at the weekend and averaged out at 8.30min/mile. Felt grand afterwards and ran 6 the next day with no ill effects.

Christeb, should I slow down these long runs if my shorter runs are usually at 7.30-8 avg? It's my first marathon also and I am aiming for sub 4.15. I think that would have me running at a 9.45 min/mile.

Oh love the chocolate milk too

christeb

mack10 wrote: »

Christeb, should I slow down these long runs if my shorter runs are usually at 7.30-8 avg? It's my first marathon also and I am aiming for sub 4.15. I think that would have me running at a 9.45 min/mile.

It might be an idea to go slightly longer and slower if your target race is DCM in Oct? However, your pace seems to be at the faster end of the 45-90 secs scale, its fast enough without being too fast IMO. Most people run their LSRs slower than their PMP, that is why it leads me to believe that you may benefit from going longer. Although this obviously depends on your longest run to date and current training volume. Good luck!

mack10

christeb wrote: »

It might be an idea to go slightly longer and slower if your target race is DCM in Oct? However, your pace seems to be at the faster end of the 45-90 secs scale, its fast enough without being too fast IMO. Most people run their LSRs slower than their PMP, that is why it leads me to believe that you may benefit from going longer. Although this obviously depends on your longest run to date and current training volume. Good luck!

Thanks Christeb.

10 mile was my longest run to date but that will be increasing by 2 miles every 2 weeks up to 18. Current volume is 36 miles per week. The breakdown is :
Mon = 6
Tues = rest
Wed = 8
Thurs = 6
Fri = rest
Sat = 6
Sun = 10

I might skip the 12 and go straight up to 14's after next week and just aim to do them at a much slower pace.

What would recommend my longest run be 18, 20 or more? and how many of these should I aim to complete before tapering down.

christeb

I know it's a bit late to make a schedule now but this site will give you an idea of how your training should be structured on a daily / weekly basis. The training volumes are relative, so scale it down to get an idea of what you're doing.