Impartial Opinions Needed

LegacyUser

I am a long time boards.ie member, but have to post this anonymously for reasons which will become obvious. I can't rely on family or friends to help me get through this as their answers will be motivated by other factors. I'm going to spill the lot. The good, the bad and the down right ugly. Feel free to reply in either direction. I can take what's coming. And apologies in advance for what is about to be a novel of a post.

My husband and I have been married nearly 19 years. It's been a struggle on and off, but we've weathered most of it as you do. A couple of years after we were married we went to my home place with our 1 year old son to introduce him to my extended family. During that trip, on a night out with some of my old school friends, he ended up messing about with one of my 'friends'. She phoned my the next day full of apologies to let me know what had happened. I confronted him, he apologised saying he didn't mean it. He was after too much drink. Won't ever happen again. After a while we got past it. Truth be told, as my own family is full of divorce, I swore I'd stick it out for the long haul if ever I was married and didn't want to back down from that.

From then on, I was regularly accused of chatting up this guy or that and questioned after a night out with the girls for at least an hour each time until he was sure I hadn't been up to anything. This went on for years. It was more than frustrating as I'd never gone near another man. I said to him once, 'It's usually the cheater who likes to makes the accusations first to clear their own guilty conscience.' (That would come back to haunt me later, as you'll find out).

The constant accusations went on for years, meanwhile I'd NEVER gone near another man. Until about 8 years ago. At that point I decided I'd had enough. He obviously wasn't happy and was just looking for a fight in hopes that I'd break it off eventually. Or so I thought. I was away for a week with friends. We talked for ages about my intentions to break it off and they were great listeners. They'd all been through it so were able to advise me re: the kids, the house, etc. While we were away I met a guy who spoiled me rotten during our trip. I decided a one night holiday fling (while not ideal) was just the ticket I needed to get on with my planned new life. Trust me...the grass isn't greener on the other side.

I never hid the truth when I returned home. In fact, I told my husband the night I returned what had happened and why. I said I was sick of being accused and figured may as well go ahead and do what I was always being accused of. Also told him I was already planning for us to split and as I was at fault this time, it was up to him who would move out and who would stay with the kids. I did apologise, but not because I was worried about losing him. I apologised because it was just plain wrong and I shouldn't have looked sideways until we had officially split up. He begged me not to go and said he understood why. Said we'd work it out and I've never looked sideways at another man since.

3 wonderful kids (12 - 17) and 19 years of marriage later. The past few years have been difficult to say the least. He's in his mid 40's now and I'm in my late 30's. For the past few years we have grown apart. He barely notices me when we're on a night out together. He's been throwing eyes at other women, texts are being sent, chat up lines used. You name it...the lot. I've seen one text only because he was in the middle of typing it out one night in the pub when I walked over innocent out asking what he was up to...and he handed me the phone! Another night he walked up to one of the 20 something girls and whispered some inappropriate 'offers' in her ear and her friends told me within 10 minutes of it happening. All small stuff, I know...but the list is endless. And the apology is always the same, 'I'm sorry, didn't mean it, was drunk, don't want to lose you.' I asked him one night if he's ever slept with any of them or anyone else for that matter since his slip up way back when and he swore he hadn't. And so we go on.

Now for the bomb. I was due to go on a 2 week holiday with a dear friend today. But that was cancelled on Monday. Why? I received a call from my mom. She's apparently known about this since last September, but chose now to tell me. My sister last visited us from America right before her 17th birthday. She always looked older for her age and was a 'busy' type. When I sent her back home I told my mom she couldn't return until she copped on a bit because there was every chance she'd end up pregnant the way she was playing about. Well, my mom phoned to tell me that my husband and my sister had sex during her last visit...which as it happens, was right before my holiday mess up. (In my mind it explains why he was so quick to forgive my indiscretion.) I confronted him, he's admitted and I've received the usual apology, 'Didn't mean it, was drunk, don't want to lose you.'

I was already feeling like I'm only good for the cooking and cleaning and now I'm at an all new low in my life. Yes it happened years ago, but it happened and he didn't admit it until he was caught out. I've skipped the holiday as it means I'll have the spending money as back up if/when he moves out. I've told him the only chance we have is if he finds a therapist we can go to together. He told me to call one and he'd go. Hell no. If you're really sorry about all of this and want it to work out, YOU make the calls. That was on Wednesday. He has one week to follow through with it. I'm keeping up appearances with the kids, family and neighbours - but come Wednesday that bubble bursts too. There's no point saying 'What about the kids?' as I don't believe that's an excuse for staying together.

Am I doing right? Am I a hypocrite? What to do?!

Coffee Addict

You were very good to forgive him all those times before & I can understand why you did what you did.
But you have to ask yourself are you really prepared to forgive him what he did this time?
I couldn't & I most certainly would not forgive my sister if she did something like that.
Although it may seem better for the children if you stay together, they see the way you act around each other & towards each other & they need to know that this is not appropriate & not the way it should be.

You are young & deserve better!

Liam Byrne

Definitely not a hypocrite.

You can partially justify your cheating, but for fairness reasons I'm going to say that it doesn't 100% absolve you.

HOWEVER, whatever about the general cheating, or possible causes, him cheating with your sister was not comparable.

You've been betrayed by two people, and you are perfectly within your rights never to want to see either of them again.

Coffee Addict

Can I ask you what your mothers opinion was?

LegacyUser

Coffee Addict wrote: »

Can I ask you what your mothers opinion was?

She has said it's up to me which way all of this is handled. She adores him but is furious with him at the same time as my sister wasn't 18. That's her biggest issue with the whole thing if truth be told.

However, I'm furious with her as she's known since last September and kept quiet until now. The dear friend I was meant to be going on holiday with is like a second mom to me...and my own mom has always been very jealous of our long time friendship. In my mind, she let it out now mainly because she knew I would cancel my trip, but that's a whole other story.

Apparently my husband and sister had a 'chat' last summer when we were over visiting my family. Supposedly they both expressed guilt and apologised to each other and said they'd keep it quiet for fear of hurting me or the kids. She's a proper messed up early 20's now and she got into her usual trouble over something else when this came out. Knowing my sister the way I do, it was her way of taking attention off of what she's done lately and she'd run out of other dramas to tell.

LegacyUser

you cant blame your sister. She was under 18 your husband being oldershould have know better. Thats probably why she is messed up.

You say you stay toghether because of the kids but living toghether like this is a lot worse for them

Coffee Addict

It is up to you what you decide to do & you have to be true to yourself.
Don't worry about what other people will say or think, its your life you have to live.
Would you consider going away on your own to clear your head & think what you want...what your next step will be.
You had planned on going away anyway....at least if you are on your own with no interruptions you can think with a clear head

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies so far. I already know in my own head this isn't my fault and I'm not afraid to go it alone. I guess, after so many years together, I'm just disappointed with myself for not copping it from day one.

Any guys out there who can tell me if there's any chance someone like my husband will change or is the old saying 'Can't teach an old dog new tricks' definitely the case here?

Liam Byrne

Unregistered wrote: »

you cant blame your sister. She was under 18 your husband being oldershould have know better. Thats probably why she is messed up.

That is a load of crap, to be honest.

Being under 18 does not preclude someone from having a moral understanding that something is more than slightly wrong.

So it's a factor, fair enough.

But would you be as "understanding" of the "factor" that the husband was drunk ? I doubt it.

Yes, her husband made a commitment, and so he's more in the wrong.

But this is WAY beyond any "blood is thicker than water" argument, or "god love her, she was under 18......

If blood was indeed thicker than water, or indeed thicker than any possibly liquid analogy of the sister and the husband passing same, then the sis would have said "not on your life - you're married to my sister and I'm going to tell her".

And that's ASSUMING that the husband made the first move - he may not have, from the sounds of it.

BOTH are wrong - maybe it's 60/40, but BOTH deserve the road for the disrespect [ no - downright callous selfishness ] that they showed the OP.

I have NO time for people who have this much disregard for others. And it took two to tango.

OP - as to whether you can "teach an old dog new tricks" - I can't say; any time I've been with someone, I've been with them, and if that fell apart or I felt the urge to go elsewhere, I've ended the then current situation FIRST (passing up interim opportunities) and THEN followed through.

So I can't speak for the type if individual (wouldn't even call them a "man") that would cheat like this.....

I'd like to think that doesn't make me somehow amazing - just that it makes me human and respectful; but the more I hear about other people's actions, the more I wonder.

You acted badly, and I don't know if I would have forgiven that; but if he said that he did, then he should have......not leaving it as a smoking gun to hit you with later to justify his actions.

And his actions were unforgiveable.

LegacyUser

This is a horrible situation, but anyone who sleeps with your sister does not deserve you.

But here's my question: if your sister is now in her early twenties and you've been married 19 years, does this mean your husband has known her since she was a child? It seems incredibly creepy to me that he could sleep with someone that he potentially knew as a toddler - well, indeed, at 16 she was little more than a child still.

Good luck, OP.

LegacyUser

He doesn't deserve any more chances.........and you deserve some happiness after what you have been through. Hes not going to change, and nor will you. The trust is gone, so both of ye should go yer seperate ways and try to make lives for yer selves. Do you really want to spend the next 20 years like you have spent the last 20 years??

Its not going to be easy on your own, its scary to be honest, but I think you know that already......you seem like a really smart woman.......so put it into action!! Be brave, stand tall and remember YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY.

As for your sister.......thats something that you will have to think long and hard about. What she did was selfish, mean, crazy............ and not what a (normal) sister should do. Just dont end up bitter and angry......its not a good way to start a new and exciting life.

good luck...

LegacyUser

OP, he sounds horrible. All that perving and sleazing. He will never change. Your marriage sounds as its over long ago. You dont seem to want to be with him, why would you?

LegacyUser

Sorry but........you have both cheated..marriage is on the rocks...no respect for each other any longer..time to split I'd say....thats just my opinion mind you..but been there done all that..ye are both clearly unhappy...you know what has to be done...

VaioCruiser

Hi op.. I am really sorry about your situation. I will bet that it is very helpful to you, if upsetting, to have written it all down and to read back again.

Because on reading it all - the overwhelming conclusion for me is that this cycle has completed it's path and it's time to call it a day.

We as readers have to remember more than anythig else - that in a marriage, especially a long marriage, there is ALWAYS another side. That's not to say you have lied or misled. It's just that that is the way life is.

You have set out a long history of mistakes, bad behaviour, lack of compassion, selfish as well as dismissive behaviour and to me at least I have to ask what on earth is there to continue for ? When it is all stripped away what is left ? it would seem not a lot.

You are still young. Both of you deserve some happiness and some peace. Do the compassionate thing and put this out of it's misery.

Sorry to be so negative.

All the best.

LegacyUser

I agree completely with vaiocruiser.

This marriage sounds like it is long over. From what you have said you husband has very little respect for you or the marriage. You have made mistakes too but I think your biggest mistake has been putting up with this for so long.

Sleeping with your sister was shocking behavior, I honestly don't know how you can possible get past thins. She is also responsible for this massive betrayal. I know she was only young but if my sister did something like this I don't know if I could ever really consider her a sister again.

I know it'll be hard but I really think it'll be better for both of you if you go your separate ways now. I can't see what good can possible come of continuing this relationship. Maybe therapy can help for a while but realistically things are likely to go back to the way they were. It's not like this is just some silly mistake, a one off drunken indiscretion, you husband has shown little respect for you throughout your entire marriage. Have you also considered there may well be other women he's had flings with that you don't know about?

I am sorry OP, I really do feel for you. It's a terrible situation to be in but I think you should make a break and get on with your life. You are still young and you deserve better then this.

pog it

Totally disgusting.. your husband, sleeping with your sister?
I would never forgive either of them, most of all your husband!

Run, run fast AWAY from this man and get a loving man who is SECURE in himself and who will treat you properly.

You poor thing having to go through all of this.

best of luck.

xx

Rb

When I read of such carry on, I have to question the motivation behind it.

You haven't mentioned anything about the status of your own sex life with him, if still existent? What do you think is attracting him to sleep with other women?

If it's something fixable, such as things in the bedroom got stale/fizzled out and could be re-ignited, or you haven't been showing any interest in him/having sex with him for a while, then by all means try therapy.

If, however, it's something like him not being attracted to you anymore, or being bored of you etc etc. Then therapy would only be a waste of time and money, as it's a problem with you and not the relationship, and there's little that can be done to fix that.

It's a sad situation and I wouldn't blame you for never talking to your whore of a sister again either but at least you know you've options and aren't afraid of moving forward alone.

WesternNight

As difficult as the thought of leaving after 19 years must be, I think I'd find it harder to stay with someone who's done all of that to me without a second thought.

If I were you, I wouldn't settle for being treated like that.

LegacyUser

the drink excuse is pathetic, im in a long distance and to think that if i wanted a one nighter all i had to do was go out have a few drinks and bam magically i can have sex with other people and not accept responsibility! if the drink leads him to do this crap and it hurts you and he loves you then he should give up drink and go to aa. drinking is not an excuse for cheating. it can explain some leering and i myself forgive flirting when my boyf has loads of drink but i tell him when he is sober how i do not appreciate his actions! drink is not an excuse and he seems to think he is at liberty to do whatever he wants because of it, that to me is the biggest issue! Sleeping with your sister shows utter lack of respect on both of their part and i would have no problem cutting her out of my life, being related does not mean she can treat you like that and expect you to forgive her, respect ahs to be earned and she lost all respect by sleeping with your husband.

best of luck, it sounds like you have put up with a lot and hopefully you will be happy soon!

dilallio

Unregistered wrote: »

Well, my mom phoned to tell me that my husband and my sister had sex during her last visit...which as it happens, was right before my holiday mess up. (In my mind it explains why he was so quick to forgive my indiscretion.) I confronted him, he's admitted and I've received the usual apology, 'Didn't mean it, was drunk, don't want to lose you.'

I am sorry to say this, but if this is his usual apology and this type of behaviour has been repeated, it sounds to me like

'Didn't mean it, was drunk, don't want to lose you.' = 'Didn't think I'd get caught, was drunk, don't want to lose my cushy life'

Sleeping with your sister was a really horrible, unforgivable thing to do, but what disturbs me now, is the fact that he is not actively doing everything that is humanly possible to demonstrate how sorry he is and repair the huge damage that has been done. As you have said, he wants YOU to call the councellor.
I am sorry, but this man does NOT respect you or your feelings. He is taking you, and your expected forgiveness for granted. Whatever you decide to do, do it for you and your children. If you are worried about coping financially being a single mother, consult a solicitor.
You will always find it difficult to forgive your sister. I don't think I could, but she was very young at the time, and if she was an attention-seeker, she may have been flattered by his attention. Not an excuse I know, but possibly a reason for why she did what she did.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the very best.

LegacyUser

It's time you got yourself out of this mess. It's clear that neither you or your husband have a shred of respect for each other. His behaviour has been disgusting to say the least and your's has also been questionable.

Ultimately you are responsible for your own happiness or lack of. You are an adult and you need to take control of your life and start orchestrating your own happiness instead of wasting another minute in this so-called relationship.

You are both adults, so stop acting like teenagers.

LegacyUser

Rb wrote: »

When I read of such carry on, I have to question the motivation behind it.

You haven't mentioned anything about the status of your own sex life with him, if still existent? What do you think is attracting him to sleep with other women?

The only time sex has been an issue has been after one of his 'slip ups' when I'd say no for a bit until I got my head around the latest news. That's never lasted longer than maybe a week or two. Also, I've had a couple of back operations and obviously before and after those there wouldn't be anything going on, but only because I wasn't physically able. Apart from that, I wouldn't consider myself to be the 'frigid' type. In fact, quite the opposite.

He had a bit of a self-esteem issue when we first met, but that has gotten better over the years. Now he'd be considered the life of the party and isn't afraid to chat with anyone. He's also considered one of the nicest guys in the village as he'd go out of his way to help just about anyone. We've been very good at hiding any hassles in our house from the outside world. Which is why a split will be all the more difficult.

I decided to tell one of our mutual local friends this week-end (told her the lot, from start to finish) and her first reaction was, 'But you two are the most solid couple around the place! You always go out together and have a great time with everyone.' She reckons it happened too long ago to matter now and we should try to work it out. That said, she was very shocked by the news.

He's found a counsellor he'd like us to see, so I've agreed to give it a go. As neither of us has been perfect, I owe this much. I'm definitely in a much better frame of mind than I was last week and even more willing to go it on my own if this doesn't work. The next few weeks will be interesting.

tbh

the guys been treating you like an idiot for years. It's only because you've stuck with him for so long that you've forgotten what you're worth. The guy is a child, and you are MUCH BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM.

trust me on that one.

LegacyUser

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That is a load of crap, to be honest.

Being under 18 does not preclude someone from having a moral understanding that something is more than slightly wrong.

So it's a factor, fair enough.

But would you be as "understanding" of the "factor" that the husband was drunk ? I doubt it.

Yes, her husband made a commitment, and so he's more in the wrong.

But this is WAY beyond any "blood is thicker than water" argument, or "god love her, she was under 18......

If blood was indeed thicker than water, or indeed thicker than any possibly liquid analogy of the sister and the husband passing same, then the sis would have said "not on your life - you're married to my sister and I'm going to tell her".

And that's ASSUMING that the husband made the first move - he may not have, from the sounds of it.

BOTH are wrong - maybe it's 60/40, but BOTH deserve the road for the disrespect [ no - downright callous selfishness ] that they showed the OP.

I have NO time for people who have this much disregard for others. And it took two to tango.

OP - as to whether you can "teach an old dog new tricks" - I can't say; any time I've been with someone, I've been with them, and if that fell apart or I felt the urge to go elsewhere, I've ended the then current situation FIRST (passing up interim opportunities) and THEN followed through.

So I can't speak for the type if individual (wouldn't even call them a "man") that would cheat like this.....

And his actions were unforgiveable.

I agree with everthing Liam said,,

herya

I am really sorry to hear about your circumstances. It's so sad to see your long term relationship crumble and fail.

From your whole story, this "apology" is what I find the most mind boggling:

'Didn't mean it, was drunk, don't want to lose you.'

He's using it for everything from random leering to sleeping with your underage sister (!!!), for years and years.

Do you think it's a cover for some more substantial underlying issues - in which case you may still have a chance of working them out with counseling and marriage therapy? You were unfaithful too but at last you knew your reasons and motivation so you both had a chance to understand what this was about and take it from there.

Or is it his genuine excuse and reasoning, in which case it doesn't look like there is much to salvage in the man's head and in your relationship? If he doesn't even know nor care?

WesternNight

Unregistered wrote: »

As neither of us has been perfect, I owe this much.

I have to say, I really don't think you owe him anything at this stage.

Liam Byrne

Unregistered wrote: »

As neither of us has been perfect, I owe this much.

I can't remember reading anywhere in your posts that you jumped on his brother and shagged his brains out, possibly unprotected, passing bodily fluids ?

Sorry to be so explicit, but this what he did - WITH YOUR SISTER.

If you'd done the same with his brother, I'd say "two of ye in it, ye deserve each other", and yeah, if he'd cheated on you once in "retaliation", you wouldn't have the high moral ground.

But it sounds like he's had numerous "slip ups" (interestingly apt phrase, considering the physical action involved)...

And ONE OF THOSE WAS YOUR SISTER!

It's your life, and your call; but you posted here for opinions and I - for one - would not fancy going where my bro had been.....and DEFINITELY not if the girl in question went behind my back while we were supposedly "together" in order to do it.

VaioCruiser

Hi again OP.

I want to follow up on my earlier post and reiterate something I said. We are only hearing one side of this story and I know full well, as you do, that both of you contributed to this mess, whether by action or by provocation or by enabling. I am making no judgement as to who deserves what or who is to blame - no one here can do that.

What I wanted to say is that if you do chose to leave, then please take this experience with you and try not to repeat the same pattern of behaviour next time. Because if you do, then you will find that exactly the same thing will happen in your next relationship. Repeating the same behaviour is what MOST people actually do, despite bad experiences. So try to be the exception if you possibly can.

All the best.

Liam Byrne

Enough already, VC......if the OH had fecked off with a randomer, then they would be equal.

What the supposed b/f and the sister did was a whole new level of betrayal.

Between this and the other thread, god help any rape victim who asks you for help; it seems like you'd ask them what they were wearing..... :rolleyes:

VaioCruiser

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enough already, VC......if the OH had fecked off with a randomer, then they would be equal.

What the supposed b/f and the sister did was a whole new level of betrayal.

Between this and the other thread, god help any rape victim who asks you for help; it seems like you'd ask them what they were wearing..... :rolleyes:

Liam - I agree with most of your posts. However you have no idea whatsoever what kinds of things the OP has done that she is not telling us. You have no idea what other stuff is going on generally that we don't know about.

You rape comment is highly offensive and ignorant. You have your opinions, I have mine. Try to be a bit more mature about it.

Liam Byrne

VaioCruiser wrote: »

You rape comment is highly offensive and ignorant. You have your opinions, I have mine. Try to be a bit more mature about it.

Bear in mind that I said "it seems like"; I did not imply that you would.

You, on the other hand, seemed to imply that the OP had done more than she's already admitted to :

VaioCruiser wrote: »

However you have no idea whatsoever what kinds of things the OP has done that she is not telling us.

And if you took offence at me pointing out that your questioning of victims' actions - on two threads - could potentially be extrapolated, I'd ask you to look at how "insulting" that was, compared to your far more direct suggestions about the OP's actions, with no equivalent "seems like" or caveat or even known basis for the suggestions.

Silverfish

If you two want to argue, please do it somewhere else. The OP wants advice, not to read arguments. Thank you.