Travellers being drove daft by soft money

icanchange49

it'll soon be too late if the ordinary people dont do something quick to protect themselves

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/deadly-weapons-used-in-vicious-traveller-brawls-1848886.html

thomond2006

What's new pussycat?

arybvtcw0eolkf

icanchange49 wrote: »

it'll soon be too late if the ordinary people dont do something quick to protect themselves

Like what boss?.

.

Nodin

icanchange49 wrote: »

it'll soon be too late if the ordinary people dont do something quick to protect themselves

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/deadly-weapons-used-in-vicious-traveller-brawls-1848886.html

They're also fond of slash hooks.

Irish people, and Irish travellers, beating the shite out of each other is not a new phenomena. You should stay away from the Sindo and read a newspaper for yourself instead.

I don't see the problem tbh, if we let them at it they'll kill off one another.

unwyse

ah,the poor misunderstood traaavlers! just tryin to make a living boss,cant sign with an x coz thas me brudders name:D

Wibbs

What seems to be new is that all types of the violent criminal element(not just ones attached to travellers) have stepped up to new levels. I can't remember a time when shootings and stabbings were so high in general. The Guards don't have the resources, training and I have to say at times the will to step on these thugs. I can understand that too, when you see the lamearsed sentences being handed out.

We need more, better trained Guards. We need more armed guards. We need harsher sentences across the board. Any assault involving deadly weapons should carry a mandatory 8 years, with no parole. Premeditated murder should be for life, until you're carried out in a box. If the prisons are overcrowded well then damn well build more of them.

Basically we need more intervention by the powers in this country. Which means bugger all will ever be done.

Nodin

A bit of context

The granddaddy of all faction fights took place on June 24, 1834, the Feast Day of St. John the Baptist, a Holy Day which traditionally served to commemorate the occurrence of the longest day of the year, when 3,000 participants, the Coolens on one side, with Lawlors, Blacks and Mulvihills on the other, went up against each other at Ballyveigh Strand in County Kerry. When the bleeding stopped, 200 were dead.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/faction.html

The Hill Billy

@ Wibbs - Off-topic posting is unhelpful & will get you banned. Have a nice day.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Lets add Glocks and Machineguns to the deadly mix!..
.

MayoForSam

How times have changed from the when the good auld shillelagh was the weapon of choice.

Violence has been a part of traveller culture for a very long time, sorting out this carry-on would put the Peace Process up north in the shade.

latenia

Nodin wrote: »

They're also fond of slash hooks.

Irish people, and Irish travellers, beating the shite out of each other is not a new phenomena. You should stay away from the Sindo and read a newspaper for yourself instead.

Has anyone even heard the word slashhook being used outside of the context of a traveller brawl?

Shacklebolt

Nodin wrote: »

A bit of context

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/faction.html

I've heard this argument before-'Ah sure we all used to be like that'. But thats the very point-we moved on and become modernised, whereas travellers remain stuck in the past, and intentionally remaining backward.

latenia wrote: »

Has anyone even heard the word slashhook being used outside of the context of a traveller brawl?

Yes I actually have one in the shed for cutting hedges.

Nodin

Shacklebolt wrote: »

I've heard this argument before-'Ah sure we all used to be like that'. But thats the very point-we moved on and become modernised, whereas travellers remain stuck in the past, and intentionally remaining backward.
.

Given the relatively limited number of deaths in traveller fighting, I'd say they've moved on somewhat too. However my point isn't that "we all used be like that", merely that its nothing new. It is in fact so old that presenting it otherwise is a damning critique of newspapers, reportage etc in general. While TV news can claim time constraints for failure to provide context, newspapers don't have that luxury.

Nodin

latenia wrote: »

Has anyone even heard the word slashhook being used outside of the context of a traveller brawl?

Think there was a feud between chinese where they were used but no, 99 times out of 100, its them. They still seem to prefer the shotgun over more fancy firearms too.

Morlar

Wibbs wrote: »

We need more, better trained Guards. We need more armed guards. We need harsher sentences across the board. Any assault involving deadly weapons should carry a mandatory 8 years, with no parole. Premeditated murder should be for life, until you're carried out in a box. If the prisons are overcrowded well then damn well build more of them.

Basically we need more intervention by the powers in this country. Which means bugger all will ever be done.

I Agree totally on the sentencing, you could write a book with examples of some of the piss poor sentences handed down in this country. I have seen so many it's no longer out of the ordinary - it is now out of the ordinary for people to hear about a sentence and think 'that fits the crime'. Ridiculous situation, either the fault of the judiciary or of prison over crowding and lack of facilities. The cost of housing prisoners is another problem, it costs more in Ireland to keep a scumbag in prison each year than it does in most other places in europe. I think there needs to be a shift in mindset away from 'rights for prisoners' back to 'rights for victims & society in general'.

marcsignal

a penny for the babby? me fcukin arse :mad:

treveller wedding pic

Mars Bar

And it is "being driven daft by money"...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nodin wrote: »

They still seem to prefer the shotgun over more fancy firearms too.

The Frog Ward wouldn't agree with you

Go on the Nally

There's a good ol' traveller feud out this way (Dublin 13) involving regular shoot up's.

I actually train and drink with some member's of the travelling community, mostly grand lads but there's the missing link in them that makes them feel their outside the law's and standards of common decency that you and I feel bound to live under (for the well being and peace of others) - how thats addressed I haven't a clue, but pandering to their every wimm ain't the way to go, I'm pretty damn sure of that.

.

arybvtcw0eolkf

marcsignal wrote: »

a penny for the babby? me fcukin arse :mad:

treveller wedding pic

Is the coachman Gerry Ryan?.

.

Julien Echoing Padding

Julien Echoing Padding wrote: »

Is the coachman Gerry Ryan?.

.

After the sales of his book would it surprise you?

ihadu

Wibbs wrote: »

What seems to be new is that all types of the violent criminal element(not just ones attached to travellers) have stepped up to new levels. I can't remember a time when shootings and stabbings were so high in general. The Guards don't have the resources, training and I have to say at times the will to step on these thugs. I can understand that too, when you see the lamearsed sentences being handed out.

We need more, better trained Guards. We need more armed guards. We need harsher sentences across the board. Any assault involving deadly weapons should carry a mandatory 8 years, with no parole. Premeditated murder should be for life, until you're carried out in a box. If the prisons are overcrowded well then damn well build more of them.

Basically we need more intervention by the powers in this country. Which means bugger all will ever be done.

why 8, why not 1 or 100?

Wibbs

IMHO the current generation of gougers is lost for the most part. They need locking up and removal from society. The next generation is where it should start. Hit them young and hit them hard. Most adult scumbags, no matter who they are or where they're from start with small stuff. Small stuff they get away with. Then they move up the scale to where guns and knives are being used. If you dont catch the low level antisocial stuff early then they will continue on.

I know what Makikomi means too. I've known a few traveller lads and they were absolutely grand, but there was that disconnect from society and it's norms to a lesser or greater extent. Serious suspicion with society too.

Wibbs

ihadu wrote: »

why 8, why not 1 or 100?

If an assualt occurs without injury or death but where a knife is used with intent I would say 8 is about right. As it stands if I chop someone up in tiny bits tomorrow, I'll be out in 8 or so for good behaviour(so long as I avoid getting sectioned mental health wise). Which is bloody madness.

Look at this madness on the rape angle;
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/serial-rapistrsquos-release-sparks-security-alert-1824984.html

13 years for that? Jesus.

The list of examples of utterly bovine sentences in this country and the lawmakers/judicary having their heads square up where the sun don't shine is a long one.

TBH if I was a nutter and wanted to kill someone for kicks this would be the country in europe to do it.

icanchange49

mars bar wrote: »

And it is "being driven daft by money"...

ah it is, it is. I knew that. Just trying a little traveller narrative to be funny for a Saturday afternoon like....

donmeister

I hear 'King of the Tinkers' is quite a prestigious title to have!

Rabies

Julien Echoing Padding wrote: »

Is the coachman Gerry Ryan?.

.

No. That is the horse's' ass

Whosbetter?

donmeister wrote: »

I hear 'King of the Tinkers' is quite a prestigious title to have!

If you're a 'Tinker'.:cool:

anonymous_joe

Wibbs wrote: »

If an assualt occurs without injury or death but where a knife is used with intent I would say 8 is about right. As it stands if I chop someone up in tiny bits tomorrow, I'll be out in 8 or so for good behaviour(so long as I avoid getting sectioned mental health wise). Which is bloody madness.

Look at this madness on the rape angle;
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/serial-rapistrsquos-release-sparks-security-alert-1824984.html

13 years for that? Jesus.

The list of examples of utterly bovine sentences in this country and the lawmakers/judicary having their heads square up where the sun don't shine is a long one.

TBH if I was a nutter and wanted to kill someone for kicks this would be the country in europe to do it.

The likes of the judiciary give the sentences that they can, not those that they as private individuals would pass.

Add to that, there's simply not enough room for prisoners in this country, and no-one wants a prison built near them, add to which, it costs a fcuking fortune to house prisoners.

I agree with ya, but in the midst of a recession nothing will be done.

Dragan

donmeister wrote: »

I hear 'King of the Tinkers' is quite a prestigious title to have!

The fights involved in getting it are ****ing brutality.

Sexy

I don't quite get the thread title.

marcsignal

Julien Echoing Padding wrote: »

Is the coachman Gerry Ryan?.

.

ROFL !! never noticed that !

Wibbs

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The likes of the judiciary give the sentences that they can, not those that they as private individuals would pass.

I agree entirely. The laws and sentences need serious reviewing.

Add to that, there's simply not enough room for prisoners in this country, and no-one wants a prison built near them, add to which, it costs a fcuking fortune to house prisoners.

Well I would be building an alcatraz style place off the coast on any number of islands we have. That takes care of the neighbours. As for the costs? Privatise the prison(s) for a start. Build the new ones more efficiently so they require less maintenance and fewer officers to control. Put the less dodgy prisoners to work. Prison labour is cheap so there could be economic benefits there. If the will was there it's very doable.

I agree with ya, but in the midst of a recession nothing will be done.

Sadly true and TBH I don't think the recession's got jack to do with it. They did nothing in the middle of the boom either.

icanchange49

Sexy wrote: »

I don't quite get the thread title.

the point is that travellers (and indeed members of the settled community) who have received extremely generous handouts for generations have been done a disservice by the state. their natural talents (and they were traditionally many) have been eroded because they have no need to use these talents to survive. however, of course they still have energies, agressions etc; which nature has given us to survive and they have to get rid of these someway and they do this through activities - fighting etc - in ways that can only be to the detriment of other communities. so travellers. so, you see, that is what I meant and this is the origin of the thred title.

irish_bob

icanchange49 wrote: »

the point is that travellers (and indeed members of the settled community) who have received extremely generous handouts for generations have been done a disservice by the state. their natural talents (and they were traditionally many) have been eroded because they have no need to use these talents to survive. however, of course they still have energies, agressions etc; which nature has given us to survive and they have to get rid of these someway and they do this through activities - fighting etc - in ways that can only be to the detriment of other communities. so travellers. so, you see, that is what I meant and this is the origin of the thred title.

tinkers do more than fight ,a huge number of them go around rural ireland painting sheds for farmers , unfortunatley the paint is 90 % diesel - 10% paint so is guarenteed to fall off after about a year , still , theyve been able to get away with it for years now

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dragan wrote: »

The fights involved in getting it are ****ing brutality.

Only brutality is watching them, most of those guys couldn't box eggs.

The travellers who can properly fight are training in gym's up and down the country not fighting on country lanes, forest clearings and halting sites.

I don't respect their fighting abilities for a moment.

.

Coriolanus

Wibbs wrote: »

What seems to be new is that all types of the violent criminal element(not just ones attached to travellers) have stepped up to new levels. I can't remember a time when shootings and stabbings were so high in general. The Guards don't have the resources, training and I have to say at times the will to step on these thugs. I can understand that too, when you see the lamearsed sentences being handed out.

We need more, better trained Guards. We need more armed guards. We need harsher sentences across the board. Any assault involving deadly weapons should carry a mandatory 8 years, with no parole. Premeditated murder should be for life, until you're carried out in a box. If the prisons are overcrowded well then damn well build more of them.

Basically we need more intervention by the powers in this country. Which means bugger all will ever be done.

All of the above have been tried in the States and the UK, and it's worked so well that they now have the lowest rates of violent crime in the western world.

Wait...

SV

Julien Echoing Padding wrote: »

Only brutality is watching them, most of those guys couldn't box eggs.

The travellers who can properly fight are training in gym's up and down the country not fighting on country lanes, forest clearings and halting sites.

I don't respect their fighting abilities for a moment.

.

+1 on both of them, couldn't agree more.

Pygmalion

Nevore wrote: »

All of the above have been tried in the States and the UK, and it's worked so well that they now have the lowest rates of violent crime in the western world.

Wait...

Firstly, if you're implying that high levels of crime have something to do with these measures you may be right, but you probably have it backwards.
Crimes rates aren't high because there's so much trained and armed police, police are trained and armed because there's high levels of crime.

In the UK most of the scumbag crime you hear about nowadays is commited by youths. They generally aren't taken seriously and the kids basically just get away lightly with whatever they do.

Secondly America is much larger, you can't compare something that goes down here to somethging that goes down in a city with millions, if not tens of millions of people.
If you actually looked at the amount of officers per capita it wouldn't surprise me if our towns had much more guards than theirs, of course I haven't checked so I may be wrong.
But you do acknowledge that it would be much harder to police a city ten times the size of Dublin to anywhere over here?

johnathan woss

Does anyone have any stats or reports on what the travelling community costs the Irish state every year ?

In total, i.e. including welfare, child benefits, housing, cleaning up after them after they leave a site, the police hours spent dealing with them, the cost of the crime itself, etc etc etc

I don't know what it is but I know it's unsustainable considering the state of the economy.
I would guess that any stats or reports on this are not publically available because the total costs are likely staggering.

The thing is, they have become used to the handouts now and when (not if) they have to be substantially reduced we are going to have a big problem.

AckwelFoley

I worked in a hardware store for 10 years in Moate.

One fine summers day there was a wedding in town. Moate is a choice spot for traveller weddings. This traveller came into the store. i knew he was a traveller instantly due to the Miami Vice Hair cut and the cheap suit.

He was obviously dressed for an occasion, he came to the counter asked me for a hatchet, an axe handle and then beckoned me over to the chain stand and asked me to get him some chain.

Inside i deeply wanted to ask him which chain he wanted, ie was it for a funeral or a wedding? I refrained, I however gave him the thickest chain i could find... he weighed the 1m lenght of chain in his arm and seemed happy

I charged him and let him on his way, knowing full well that the axe was going to be stuck in some other gents head in a matter of hours.

galwayrush

snyper wrote: »

I worked in a hardware store for 10 years in Moate.

One fine summers day there was a wedding in town. Moate is a choice spot for traveller weddings. This traveller came into the store. i knew he was a traveller instantly due to the Miami Vice Hair cut and the cheap suit.

He was obviously dressed for an occasion, he came to the counter asked me for a hatchet, an axe handle and then beckoned me over to the chain stand and asked me to get him some chain.

Inside i deeply wanted to ask him which chain he wanted, ie was it for a funeral or a wedding? I refrained, I however gave him the thickest chain i could find... he weighed the 1m lenght of chain in his arm and seemed happy

I charged him and let him on his way, knowing full well that the axe was going to be stuck in some other gents head in a matter of hours.

I've had them come into my workshop asking me to make baseball bats out of the heaviest, strongest wood i have and if i'd bore the top and fill it with melted lead. I've always refused, though in these tough times, the money would be nice.:D

Slidey

I live in Ballymote, traditional burial ground for either the McDonaghs or the Wards, cant be arsed remembering which.

Everytime there is a funeral the town has to go into lockdown because the aforementioned families are feuding. There is armed checkpoints on all roads into the town and the piles and I mean piles of farming equipment that are siezed when this practice was first implemented was staggering

There was one killed a few years ago and one of the rival members literally shot himself in the foot while shoving the gun down his trousers.

Of course the graveyard is now an eyesore with huge tasteless marble monstrosities.

Oh ya, and us fools are paying for it all.

SEPT 23 1989

johnathan woss wrote: »

Does anyone have any stats or reports on what the travelling community costs the Irish state every year ?

In total, i.e. including welfare, child benefits, housing, cleaning up after them after they leave a site, the police hours spent dealing with them, the cost of the crime itself, etc etc etc

I don't know what it is but I know it's unsustainable considering the state of the economy.
I would guess that any stats or reports on this are not publically available because the total costs are likely staggering.

The thing is, they have become used to the handouts now and when (not if) they have to be substantially reduced we are going to have a big problem.

there are 22,369 Travellers living off in the Irish state

i would also be very interested to know how much this group is actually costing the TAXPAYER

icanchange49

We need more, better trained Guards. We need more armed guards. We need harsher sentences across the board. Any assault involving deadly weapons should carry a mandatory 8 years, with no parole. Premeditated murder should be for life, until you're carried out in a box. If the prisons are overcrowded well then damn well build more of them...

good thinking and why not get the travellers themselves to build them...

Whosbetter?

icanchange49 wrote: »

good thinking and why not get the travellers themselves to build them...

You mean getting them to do something usefull for a change? :eek:

There'd be uproar in Pavee Point!!!