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Petrol Station Fraud?!

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  • 31-07-2009 6:49pm
    #1
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Went to the local pumps today with a 3 litre bottle to throw some petrol in, anyway filled it nearly to the top and on the pump it said four and a half litres :confused:

    I find that quiet odd seeing as the bottle is only 3 litres? Or am I missing something?


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    #2
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    Went to the local pumps today with a 3 litre bottle to throw some petrol in, anyway filled it nearly to the top and on the pump it said four and a half litres :confused:

    I find that quiet odd seeing as the bottle is only 3 litres? Or am I missing something?

    The pump probably didn't reset to zero after is was last used. Alternatively, are you positive it's a 3 liter bottle?


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    #3
    bladebrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭bladebrew


    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    Went to the local pumps today with a 3 litre bottle to throw some petrol in, anyway filled it nearly to the top and on the pump it said four and a half litres :confused:

    I find that quiet odd seeing as the bottle is only 3 litres? Or am I missing something?

    i have often wondered about this,i think someone mentioned it months back in a different thread and somebody said that there are people who go around checking,,but it might have been in england...sorry cant remember much else!

    where is hammertime when you want him:confused:


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    #4
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    Confab wrote: »
    The pump probably didn't reset to zero after is was last used. Alternatively, are you positive it's a 3 liter bottle?

    nope, it was at zero when we went up.

    and yup, we checked the bottle afterwards just to make sure and it said 3 litres.


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    #5
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I've had my suspicions about similar once or twice in the past. For the most part fine, but there have been garages where I was very dubious abut the amount going in versus how much I was charged. If I were you I would go back to the same garage with the can and try again and if it's repeated complain and if you get no satisfaction, report them. God knows to who though:confused:

    PS Not resetting to zero is no excuse. It should. If it doesn't it's faulty and you're being ripped off. Simple as.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Contact the NSAI if you're sure about it, they can test pumps. In saying that I've only ever seen an NSAI check sticker on a pump ONCE in my life!

    My "five litre" can for the mower can take over 6, as it goes - its five litres to the last gauging line on the side, which is well below the brim.


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    #7
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    +1 make sure the measurement is for the whole can or part of it. There should be a mark. Or get some empty 2 ltre drinks bottles and see how many fills of water the can takes. Even so a litre and a half seems excessive.?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #8
    Berty
    Registered Users Posts: 26,149 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    Mostly the pumps are calibrated by RPS so they should ok.

    Check the side of the pump if you are ever in doubt. There will be a plaque with a certification expiry date on it.


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    #9
    Damien360
    Registered Users Posts: 6,378 ✭✭✭Damien360


    That is a big differnence between readout and actual litres.

    I know my fuel useage and will generally fill when tank hits empty and not half way down. I have found a few places where I could get more diesel in to my car than my tank can actually take. For example, I have a 70 litre tank in my car and a few times I got 77 litres in. A 10% error minimum as I do not let the car suck fumes before filling. Even acounting for volume from nozzle to tank that does not make sense. One garage between Newbridge and Naas has been consistently wrong for myself and a few friends using diesel. We all quit going there.


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    #10
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    If you fill a "3 litre" bottle to the brim you will likely get a bit more than 3 litres in. To be sure you'd need to use a proper measuring device like a graduated cylinder.

    Also, petrol is volatile, some will have evaporated while you were filling it, nowhere near 1.5 litres though.

    If you filled a plastic bottle that is not designed for carrying petrol the petrol and plastic may start to react which could cause softening/stretching of the plastic, altering the volume.

    I'm not saying the pump was right or wrong just pointing out that there could be errors in this measuremnet. Also, the flip side of this is i am pretty sure I have come across pumps which were dispensing *more* than the readout - swings and roundabouts and all that


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    #11
    HashSlinging
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭HashSlinging


    Right lads group buy of graduated cylinders FTW.


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    #12
    P.C.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭P.C.


    Confab wrote: »
    The pump probably didn't reset to zero after is was last used. Alternatively, are you positive it's a 3 liter bottle?

    Unless you take the nozzel from the guy before you, the pump will reset.
    Once the pump has been 'hung up', it can not start again unless it restes - and it will reset to zero, it can't reset to anything else.

    Check the size of the container.
    Do you have a wine bottle at home?
    A wine bottle is 750ml, so this will be handy to measure 3 litre.


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    #13
    Sids Not
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Sids Not


    How much did you pay ...?


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    #14
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    If you filled a plastic bottle that is not designed for carrying petrol the petrol and plastic may start to react which could cause softening/stretching of the plastic, altering the volume.
    Isn't it also illegal to sell (or buy, not sure which) petrol in a container other than a proper petrol can. (I think on safety grounds because petrol can melt some plastic bottles).

    I'd go along with the bigger than 3 litres bottle theory.


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    #15
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Isn't it also illegal to sell (or buy, not sure which) petrol in a container other than a proper petrol can. (I think on safety grounds because petrol can melt some plastic bottles).

    I'd go along with the bigger than 3 litres bottle theory.

    Yep, Dangerous Substances Act 1972. Same law that stops us having locking petrol pumps I think (that might be an SI from later on).


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    #16
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    slimjimmc wrote:
    Isn't it also illegal to sell (or buy, not sure which) petrol in a container other than a proper petrol can. (I think on safety grounds because petrol can melt some plastic bottles).

    Legal if the bottle was marked or labelled by manufacturer stating it can tolerate petrol/diesel, up to a limit of 5 litres. (20 litres for metal cans IIRC)

    That said most (legal) plastic fuel cans start life at 5 litres, not 3! :pac:


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    #17
    high horse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭high horse


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Isn't it also illegal to sell (or buy, not sure which) petrol in a container other than a proper petrol can. (I think on safety grounds because petrol can melt some plastic bottles).

    Yes but when it's self service, it can be hard to stop people filling up their containers


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    #18
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    high horse wrote: »
    Yes but when it's self service, it can be hard to stop people filling up their containers
    Agreed, I'd even say it's next to impossible. Someone would have to be watching each pump like a hawk. Also what could they do after the customer has filled up, force him to pour it back into the tanks?


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    #19
    ttm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭ttm


    Its really funny to see someone fill up an "inapropriate" plastic container only to see it disolve and dump its contents over them a few minutes after they have paid for it.

    tbh that isn't really the point here, but honest some plastic bottles not designed to hold petrol do disolve when filled, the pump fraud has got to have somethig to do with Metrology, look at any pump and it should have a metrology sticker on in saying when it was last tested checked and certified as delivering the correct amount.


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    #20
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    Might of been the plastic bottle so. Sure I'll go back with a graduated cylinder and see what happens!


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    #21
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    MYOB wrote: »
    My "five litre" can for the mower can take over 6, as it goes - its five litres to the last gauging line on the side, which is well below the brim.

    You're not supposed to fill any petrol container to the neck. The safe capacity is 5 litres - that's nothing to do with the actual volume of the can. The 'empty' space is referred to as 'ullage' and is a requirement of in volatile liquid transport.

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    #22
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,916 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    Went to the local pumps today with a 3 litre bottle to throw some petrol in, anyway filled it nearly to the top and on the pump it said four and a half litres :confused:

    I find that quiet odd seeing as the bottle is only 3 litres? Or am I missing something?
    Did you not ask when paying why your 3l container took 4.5l? Would have been quicker and easier then asking here as we can only assume, the station could have checked.


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    #23
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭DubTony


    high horse wrote: »
    Yes but when it's self service, it can be hard to stop people filling up their containers

    Not at all. A console operator is supposed to verify that the person at the pump is filling an appropriate container, not smoking, not using a mobile phone etc. etc. before they authorise the pump.


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    #24
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DubTony wrote: »
    Not at all. A console operator is supposed to verify that the person at the pump is filling an appropriate container, not smoking, not using a mobile phone etc. etc. before they authorise the pump.

    Considering there are a (very small) number of stations where the pumps work instantly, clearly this is ignored by some.


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