Heavy Duty Gaming Machine

BobRuth

Hi All

I am looking to invest in a heavy duty gaming machine . Historically I like ot pay a decent price and get a machine thah will be future proof for approx 3 years. I woulk to think I have a good knowledge but could always do with a pointer or advice.

I am thinking of Alienware ALX-X58 with Dual NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 and 12GB of Ram . This would have to be Window 64 Bit and I dont know what affect that will ave on standard software (office etc ).

Any advice or suggestions on other offerings would be most welcome.

Antar Bolaeisk

Well if you're getting any sort of gaming machine then you'll be looking for at least 4Gb of RAM which will require you to have a 64-bit OS otherwise you won't be able to use all of the ram.

I would also recommend, if you think you are up for it, that you buy the parts and build the pc yourself.

What sort of budget are you on?

Cuddlesworth

BobRuth wrote: »

Hi All

I am looking to invest in a heavy duty gaming machine . Historically I like ot pay a decent price and get a machine thah will be future proof for approx 3 years. I woulk to think I have a good knowledge but could always do with a pointer or advice.

I am thinking of Alienware ALX-X58 with Dual NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 and 12GB of Ram . This would have to be Window 64 Bit and I dont know what affect that will ave on standard software (office etc ).

Any advice or suggestions on other offerings would be most welcome.

If you really want a proper hardcore gaming machine that will be future proof here's some great advise. Its never going to happen.

Half your budget and put the rest in the bank. Buy or build a pc with that amount. In two years time take the rest out and upgrade it. It will be far better then than anything you can spend you money on now.

BobRuth

Hi Guys thanks for the advice , to answer a couple of your questions :

a) Budget about approx €6000-€7000 but would prefer to spend less.
b) My assembly and build skills are not really up to a full build , did that in the old days when you didn't have such nasties as water cooled CPU and Raid etc. Also no experience of 64 Bit OS.

Stevo105

no recession for you then....6000-7000?

jetski

LoL- do not spend anywhere near that, 2 and a half will get you EVERYTHING u need


i7 975

4gb 1600mhz

gtx295

SSD HDD

24" 1920x1600 2ms LCD

ive done it myself

Stevo105

keep in mind that Intel are releasing some new chips soon...34nm, if notting else it will bring down the price of the current chips

http://www.techpowerup.com/100424/Clarkdale_3.06_GHz_Faces_a_Preview_Series_Pricing_Surfaces.html


also have a look at these site for info
http://www.anandtech.com/default.aspx

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-gaming-cpu,review-31640-4.html

Cuddlesworth

BobRuth wrote: »

Hi Guys thanks for the advice , to answer a couple of your questions :

a) Budget about approx €6000-€7000 but would prefer to spend less.
b) My assembly and build skills are not really up to a full build , did that in the old days when you didn't have such nasties as water cooled CPU and Raid etc. Also no experience of 64 Bit OS.

As above, anything over 3k is a waste. For me anything over 1k is a waste. Personal choice though, the performance gains per Euro drop like a stone after 1k. And drop down faster then Michael Jacksons soul after 3k.

Water cooling is unnecessary, raid is easy.

Stevo105

have a look at this guide http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3610&p=1

watercooling needs to be maintained...bleeding and topping up...only used if you need to overclock the nuts off it, but with all your money that will not be an issue

Voodu Child

If you are looking at buying a pre-built system, I would say Dell offer better value than Alienware. Plus there is almost always a Dell 10% voucher to be had, and also, if you buy from the EPP you'll save another 10%.

Antar Bolaeisk

Mahoosive budget there, even with half that you'll have a great build, save the rest for a car (Unless you're after winning the lotto). There's is no point in spending so much on a computer as it'll be out of date in no time. For example, any graphics card you buy now will be old generation stuff come the end of the year as I believe both nVidia and ATI have new cards on the horizon.

Water cooling is a choice you don't have to make, the cost and work far outweighs the benefit in my opinion though others who don't like the sound of noisey fans may disagree.

RAID can be useful for back-up (RAID 1) or performance gains (RAID 0), or even both (RAID 5) but again isn't necessary though easy to set up.

A 64-bit os is no different to a 32-bit os for the most part though there can be some problems trying to track down drivers for older hardware which is obviously not going to be a problem for you.

Heck, throw a couple of hundred my way and I'll build your rig for you and everything

uberpixie

BobRuth wrote: »

Hi Guys thanks for the advice , to answer a couple of your questions :

a) Budget about approx €6000-€7000 but would prefer to spend less.
b) My assembly and build skills are not really up to a full build , did that in the old days when you didn't have such nasties as water cooled CPU and Raid etc. Also no experience of 64 Bit OS.

€1500-€2000 will be more than enough to build a high end rig.
€6000-7000 is retarded money: you will not see any extra benefit spending that amount.

Also you do not need water cooling: air cooling has come a long way and with the quality cases, heatsinks and ultra quiet case fans you can buy these days it is very easy to build a quiet and cool air cooled pc.

A friend of a friend recently ditched water cooling and went back to air cooling as he was sick of the hassle and this is someone who was so hardcore into water cooling he built his first water cooling setup himself using a pump and a waterblock from a car engine:eek:.

You can also skip raid: you do not need it, it's an un-needed extra complication, if you really want to do it, you can do it by reading the manual.

If you managed a full build before you can do it again, you just need to do a tiny bit of research, there are no major changes to building a pc over the last few years. One or two new connection types that will take about 10mins worth of reading the motherboard manual to figure out, thats it.

Installing windows is straight forward 64bit or otherwise....

Stevo105

Voodu Child wrote: »

If you are looking at buying a pre-built system, I would say Dell offer better value than Alienware. Plus there is almost always a Dell 10% voucher to be had, and also, if you buy from the EPP you'll save another 10%.

You do know Alienware are owned by Dell. Since 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienware

Voodu Child

Stevo105 wrote: »

You do know Alienware are owned by Dell. Since 2006

Yes. That has nothing to do with my point though.

ronkmonster

And directX 11 is coming soon with Windows 7.
So you're dual 295's would be outdated well before the 3 years.

12 GB won't be used in 3 years. Unless you are using virtual machines or video encoding, etc 4 to 6 GB will be enough. Use bigger chips and leave 2 ports free if you do end up needing more ram.

Most standard software works on 64bit.
I've been using win7 rc for months now and no problems

I built a PC 2 years ago for around 1500 and it's still decent today. Odd game like GTA4 (which is a resource hog anyway) is slow but most I can play at full settings, 1650x1050. 8800GTX graphics card btw

Unregistered.

See here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055636157&page=2




I think with the extra cash though, you could probably buy/replace a few more case fans and maybe get a card reader! :P

Jonathan

Do you think he needs to up to dual xeons?

J_E

Budget of €6000-7000?
Looking for a jewel encrusted block, are you? o_O
If you're planning on using the computer for gaming, spending more than €2000-ish would be a waste because components become outdated within months.

Antar Bolaeisk

Multiple GPUs are probably overkill considering the OP is reluctant to even touch RAID, add into that the fact that there will more than likely be a single card solution as powerful before those cards even start to sweat unless there is a massive monitor in use.

Unregistered.

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Multiple GPUs are probably overkill considering the OP is reluctant to even touch RAID, add into that the fact that there will more than likely be a single card solution as powerful before those cards even start to sweat unless there is a massive monitor in use.

A single card solution more powerfull than a 4890OC?!! :eek:

Overheal

No offense, but shouldnt you be off buying an engagement ring or something with that kind of disposable income ? Damn son.

Ive priced computers here and there, and frankly, the prime price point is $1500/euros. And anything above 2 grand is entering the realm of ridicule. Unlike some of my fellow posters (looks @ firmer) I dont have money. So when I buy a machine, I run it into the ground. And Ive gotten good at it.

Future proofing a machine - You are only going to do any future proofing with a respectable processor and a motherboard to match. Even for performance, I wouldn't go over $500 on the processor (and even then, thats silly money, as the average mid-ranger is $150 or less - thats my own price point. Over 200 for me - I wont go there). Depreciation on new CPUs is stupid - a Processor you pay $1500 for when it launches will be 1/2 that price within a few months. And what do you get anyway? People who "Future-Proofed" with an overclocked P4 3.7ghz and probably payed the better part of a grand to get one, are now snailing along compared to any mid-range dualcore, and especially quadcores - which sell for 100-300. You can expect to want a new processor after 5 years.

I dont mind what gets paid on the motherboard. With the right specs you can upgrade the processor later (though thats rarely practical - socket standards come and go). Most can be had for under 100. Many sell around 250-350. It is the backbone of your machine. The spinal chord. We can surgically replace hearts, kidneys, lungs. The Central Nervous System?? Fughettaboutit. If you're going to pay top dollar for any component, it had better be the Motherboard.

With your Base in Place and a reliable Case (SUESS!) - you get the cheapo stuff: If youre talking about now, August 09', you can pick up 4-6 sticks (depending on the board) of 1GB for nothing. It will perform better than 1 stick of 6gb. The latter is better for adding more later, but tbh, 1gb is cheap enough and in a few years you wont mourn tossing it away.

After that I consider GPUs expendable. That industry flies faster than any other, because of the ease of swapping out PCI-e 2.0 devices. Replace as often as you feel. I dont until a new game really demands it (and by demand it, I mean, demands it to run, not run at full spec I have no problem playing a game at min. specs as long as I can get around 15 frames) and that usually means a new GPU every 2-3 years. The rest of the machine, if built correctly, should last significantly longer, and there is no reason the bones of the beast couldnt last for 10 years.

So you'll end up going through a memory upgrade after 5 years, and a GPU upgrade every 3 years. Ultimately, you'll be in for 2500-3500. But over 5 or even 10 years, thats reasonable. If youre going to throw any more money on top of that, it will be for Case options, like Silent Cooling, Dust protection, etc.

BobRuth

Hi All
The reason for the budget was that I had costed both the Alienware and Dell , Dell spec below :

Components[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%201)"]Intel® Core™ i7 processor Extreme Edition 965 (3.20Ghz, 8MB L2 cache, 6.4GT/sec)[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%2011)"]Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 (64 BIT) - English[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%201002)"]Microsoft® Office 2007 Home and Student - English[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%2030)"]4 Year Premium Warranty Support[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%205)"]24in S2409W WIDESCREEN UK Black (1920 x 1080)[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%203)"]6144MB 1067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM [3x2048][/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%208)"]1.2 TB (2x 640 GB) Serial ATA (7200 Rpm) Dual HDD Config Raid 0 Stripe[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%206)"]Dual SLI 1.8GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX295 graphics card[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%2016)"]Blu-Ray RW (Blu-ray, DVD, CD read & write) & DVD+/-RW (DVD, CD read/write)[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%204)"]Logitech MX3200 Cordless Keyboard and Laser Mouse - Leading edge design, one-touch media controls[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%2012)"]Mouse Included in Wireless Keyboard and Mouse option[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(1,%20348)"]Killer NIC™ Gaming Card[/URL]


Accessories[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(2,%201014)"]No Security/Anti-Virus Protection - English[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(2,%2017)"]Soundblaster™ XFi™ Titanium PCIe card[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(2,%2018)"]Logitech X540 Speakers - UK[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(2,%2010)"]19-in-1 Media Card Reader with Bluetooth[/URL]


Services & Software[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(3,%20463)"]4Yr Accidental Damage Support[/URL]

[URL="javascript:to_page_mod(3,%20467)"]DataSafe Online Backup 2GB 1 year[/URL]



Also Includes
English Documentation with European Power Cord
D087X02
XPS Desktop 730X Order - Ireland
1 Year Premium Warranty Support
Datasafe Local 2.0 Basic
Resource DVD - (Diagnostics & Drivers)

And that came to approx €5400.00 so thought that i needed that type of money..dont really want to cough that much but dont upgrade machines for approx 3 three years .

Do you know of a place in Dublin that will build to spec and support.

Overheal

Support for Desktops I kinda scoff at. They don't fail nearly as often as laptops, for instance. And when they do, replacing a failed part or conducting repairs yourself by consulting the google overlords is almost always much cheaper than a warranty.

Like I said, I had a 1997 Windows PC. 400Mhz processor, 4MB of dedicated VRAM (translation: wow) and 6GB of disk space. It made it to 04' before it went kaput over a disk error. Long after any extended warranty might cover. If I wasnt such a rookie at the time, I could have easilly just reformatted and kept at it. Played Black and White and everything if you can believe it. But in all, my point is desktops are incredibly stable, Versus a laptop which undergoes almost daily physical abuse and is assembled with miniaturized components packed into a small packet that generates excess amounts of heat.

To be perfectly honest you could save thousands probably on a similar home-build to what you'd get at dell. Parts generally have their own warranties, anyway. That, plus the likelihood of failures on desktops is very low. Even if you did lose a stick of RAM say - in warranty is when most ram problems will happen: in the first few days. After the first year, the price on identical ram, retail, is going to be much lower than what you paid a year before. It ultimately negates the Value of a 4 year warranty for most components.

Long story short, I'd buy it piecemeal and do a Lego. Extended desktop warranties are next to pointless. Component failures occur in the first year the vast extent of the time. The one component you can expect to die late is a Hard Drive. But for that, why not just buy a MyBook World and hook it directly into your Home Network - all the warranty you need. You know, as long as you use it for backups, and not porn

Unregistered.

BobRuth wrote: »

Hi All
The reason for the budget was that I had costed both the Alienware and Dell , Dell spec below :

ComponentsIntel® Core™ i7 processor Extreme Edition 965 (3.20Ghz, 8MB L2 cache, 6.4GT/sec)

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium SP1 (64 BIT) - English

Microsoft® Office 2007 Home and Student - English

4 Year Premium Warranty Support

24in S2409W WIDESCREEN UK Black (1920 x 1080)

6144MB 1067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM [3x2048]

1.2 TB (2x 640 GB) Serial ATA (7200 Rpm) Dual HDD Config Raid 0 Stripe

Dual SLI 1.8GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX295 graphics card

Blu-Ray RW (Blu-ray, DVD, CD read & write) & DVD+/-RW (DVD, CD read/write)

Logitech MX3200 Cordless Keyboard and Laser Mouse - Leading edge design, one-touch media controls

Mouse Included in Wireless Keyboard and Mouse option

Killer NIC™ Gaming Card


AccessoriesNo Security/Anti-Virus Protection - English

Soundblaster™ XFi™ Titanium PCIe card

Logitech X540 Speakers - UK

19-in-1 Media Card Reader with Bluetooth


Services & Software4Yr Accidental Damage Support

DataSafe Online Backup 2GB 1 year



Also Includes
English Documentation with European Power Cord
D087X02
XPS Desktop 730X Order - Ireland
1 Year Premium Warranty Support
Datasafe Local 2.0 Basic
Resource DVD - (Diagnostics & Drivers)

And that came to approx €5400.00 so thought that i needed that type of money..dont really want to cough that much but dont upgrade machines for approx 3 three years .

Do you know of a place in Dublin that will build to spec and support.

Hey OP, I've put together a rig on Hardwarversand with the EXACT same spec as the one above, only for half the price!!!




As you can see, the Processor is the newer i7 975 (3.33GHz vs. 3.2) and that mobo might be over kill, but it leaves room for upgrades (it supports SLi x 3!!!) I think the only thing that's missing is a cable to connect your monitor, i think the speakers will come with one for the sound card. Obviously, it's not the be all and end all. You should change some parts to suit yourself, such as the monitor, case. You will definately need to get the keyboard elsewhere (as it's in german), i just put it in for completeness. But that's the best thing about building your on PC is that you have more control over what goes in and you can tailor it for what you need. So recomended upgrades would be better/quieter cooling(case and CPU fans), faster ram, or an SSD, if budget allows.
Be sure to throw in €30 for delivery from hardwareversand and €20 will have them build it for you!


U.

marco_polo

Overheal wrote: »

No offense, but shouldnt you be off buying an engagement ring or something with that kind of disposable income ? Damn son.

Ive priced computers here and there, and frankly, the prime price point is $1500/euros. And anything above 2 grand is entering the realm of ridicule. Unlike some of my fellow posters (looks @ firmer) I dont have money. So when I buy a machine, I run it into the ground. And Ive gotten good at it.

Future proofing a machine - You are only going to do any future proofing with a respectable processor and a motherboard to match. Even for performance, I wouldn't go over $500 on the processor (and even then, thats silly money, as the average mid-ranger is $150 or less - thats my own price point. Over 200 for me - I wont go there). Depreciation on new CPUs is stupid - a Processor you pay $1500 for when it launches will be 1/2 that price within a few months. And what do you get anyway? People who "Future-Proofed" with an overclocked P4 3.7ghz and probably payed the better part of a grand to get one, are now snailing along compared to any mid-range dualcore, and especially quadcores - which sell for 100-300. You can expect to want a new processor after 5 years.

I dont mind what gets paid on the motherboard. With the right specs you can upgrade the processor later (though thats rarely practical - socket standards come and go). Most can be had for under 100. Many sell around 250-350. It is the backbone of your machine. The spinal chord. We can surgically replace hearts, kidneys, lungs. The Central Nervous System?? Fughettaboutit. If you're going to pay top dollar for any component, it had better be the Motherboard.

With your Base in Place and a reliable Case (SUESS!) - you get the cheapo stuff: If youre talking about now, August 09', you can pick up 4-6 sticks (depending on the board) of 1GB for nothing. It will perform better than 1 stick of 6gb. The latter is better for adding more later, but tbh, 1gb is cheap enough and in a few years you wont mourn tossing it away.

After that I consider GPUs expendable. That industry flies faster than any other, because of the ease of swapping out PCI-e 2.0 devices. Replace as often as you feel. I dont until a new game really demands it (and by demand it, I mean, demands it to run, not run at full spec I have no problem playing a game at min. specs as long as I can get around 15 frames) and that usually means a new GPU every 2-3 years. The rest of the machine, if built correctly, should last significantly longer, and there is no reason the bones of the beast couldnt last for 10 years.

So you'll end up going through a memory upgrade after 5 years, and a GPU upgrade every 3 years. Ultimately, you'll be in for 2500-3500. But over 5 or even 10 years, thats reasonable. If youre going to throw any more money on top of that, it will be for Case options, like Silent Cooling, Dust protection, etc.

+1. Super post.

BobRuth

I really welcome the helpful comments on the self build side . I don't have the skills to build and maintain a system from scratch so the only choice is to invest sponds with a system supplier. Prehaps that shows a hole in the market for bespoke machines..i dont know..
Any way I do take your advice and think the best way forward may be to go to Komplett ( here in Dublin ) and get the parts and find someone to build for me.

Unregistered.

BobRuth wrote: »

Any way I do take your advice and think the best way forward may be to go to Komplett ( here in Dublin ) and get the parts and find someone to build for me.

Komplett isn't based in dublin, AFAIK the parts that are shipped here come from Holland, though they operate throughout Europe.

Jonathan

Unregistered. wrote: »

Komplett isn't based in dublin, AFAIK the parts that are shipped here come from Holland, though they operate throughout Europe.

Europe wide company, but they have a depot in Dublin.

Unregistered.

Jonathan wrote: »

Europe wide company, but they have a depot in Dublin.

That's only a pick-up point, but they're not based here, per se.

BobRuth

Hi Guys
It seems as if you all suggest that either a custom or self build offers best value. Does anyone know of a supplier who will do a custom build and support here in Dublin. am a bit loath to send off cash and await a box only to find its not what I needed.

any advice would be welcome