Christmas

eightyfish

• Would any people here like to see Christmas stricken from the record as a public religious holiday or should it stay exactly the way it is?
• Is it okay to partake happily and not be religious?
• Is it okay to refuse to take part in the whole thing at all?
• Would that make you a miserable fool?
• Is encouraging children to believe in SC wrong?
• Or is it the case that when they eventually find out the story, they will have learned a valuable lesson about believing without evidence?
• Are these questions just taking everything way too seriously?

Genghiz Cohen

It's a nice time to spend with loved ones, and eat 'till you pass out.
Nuffink wrong 'bout that.

rainbow kirby

It's a nice time to spend with family and the turkey is always great, but 5 years of working retail at Christmas has given me a lasting hatred of the season.

Mark Hamill

eightyfish wrote: »

Would any people here like to see Christmas stricken from the record as a public religious holiday or should it stay exactly the way it is?

Christmas is religious now?

eightyfish wrote: »

Is it okay to partake happily and not be religious?

Sure, you get to spend time with friends and family, swap presents, eat too much and get drunk. What exactly about that is religious?

eightyfish wrote: »

Is it okay to refuse to take part in the whole thing at all?

Sure, do what you like, there are more people on this world who aren't christian than those who are and it doesn't seem to bother them not celebrating it.

eightyfish wrote: »

Would that make you a miserable fool?

Yes. No. Maybe. Depends on why you refuse to take part.

eightyfish wrote: »

Is encouraging children to believe in SC wrong?

Yes. No. Maybe. It does get the little S.O.B.s to behave for a week or two before hand though .

eightyfish wrote: »

Or is it the case that when they eventually find out the story, they will have learned a valuable lesson about believing without evidence?

....Em yes, in fact that was what I meant for the prevous answer.

eightyfish wrote: »

Are these questions just taking everything way too seriously?

Yes. No. Maybe.

dvpower

Would any people here like to see Christmas stricken from the record as a public religious holiday or should it stay exactly the way it is?

It is an important religious holiday for an awful lot of people that has crossed over to be an important holiday for everyone else. I'd leave it as it is.

Is it okay to partake happily and not be religious?

Absolutely

Is it okay to refuse to take part in the whole thing at all?

Why would you?

Would that make you a miserable fool?

Yeah. Kind of.

Is encouraging children to believe in SC wrong?

No. But telling children that SC doesn't exist would be. We have to live in the real world, even if the real world is a bit unreal

Or is it the case that when they eventually find out the story, they will have learned a valuable lesson about believing without evidence?

No. They won't. I don't think that finding out the truth about Santa is ever a eureka moment. A bit like finding out the truth about God - it just eventually seeps in.

Are these questions just taking everything way too seriously?

Yeah. Its only July.

robindch

eightyfish wrote: »

Would any people here like to see Christmas stricken from the record as a public religious holiday or should it stay exactly the way it is?

I'd like peolpe to return to the Real Meaning of Christmas, by reinstating the Roman feast of Saturnalia, and do away with this upstart religious nonsense!

eightyfish wrote: »

Is it okay to partake happily and not be religious?

The only people I know who spend christmas moralizing are religious. All the atheists I know have a hoot, or pass out trying.

eightyfish wrote: »

Are these questions just taking everything way too seriously?

Looks like it.

Dades

It's waaaaaay too early for the annual Christmas thread.

eightyfish, can't you just read last year's one, please?!

It's frickin' July...

eightyfish

Dades wrote: »

eightyfish, can't you just read last year's one, please?!
It's frickin' July...

Awe... but I'm bored in work now. :mad:

Gregor Samsa

It's funny you asking if it's OK to partake if you're not religious (I assume you mean christian), because one of the recurring criticisms christians have about christmas is that it's become too secular!

Basically, christmas is an amalgamation of a lot of traditions - pagan, Roman, christian, secular and capitalist amongst many others. Sure, there's something there for everyone to complain about, but there's also something there for everyone to enjoy. And I think it's entirely possible to have a great christmas without a single mention or thought of Jesus. I know I do each year .


Personally, I think those questions take things a bit too seriously, but to each their own, and I wouldn't knock you for asking them.

No way would I like christmas removed as a public holiday. It's right in the middle of winter, and we need a lift around then. The fact that some aspects of it are based on religious belief doesn't distract from that for me.

As for encouraging children to believe in Santa, I don't think it's wrong at all. It's a bit of fun, and I really enjoyed writing my letter and visiting Santa at the shopping center and putting out milk and biscuits for him when I was a kid. The fact that it turned out he didn't exist in no way ruined my memory of this at all. My daugheter is 6 months old, will not be brought up with any religion, but will certainly be getting a visit from Santa this year.

And wouldn't look on it as a valuable lesson in the importance of evidence, I think that's taking it a bit too seriousdly too. Althought I remeber when my brother was 5, he claimed he saw Santa down in the hall. He can still remember vividly what he saw (and no, it wasn't my dad dressed up), and so he uses the story to question people's claims that god exists based on a feeing or experience they had - as he could equally claim that Santa exists based on his personal experience.:D

eightyfish

eightyfish wrote: »

Would any people here like to see Christmas stricken from the record as a public religious holiday or should it stay exactly the way it is?

It should stay exactly how it is.

Is it okay to partake happily and not be religious?

For me, yes.

Is it okay to refuse to take part in the whole thing at all?

Of course. You have every right to refuse.

Would that make you a miserable fool?

I believe so.

Is encouraging children to believe in SC wrong?

No, I don't think it is. There's something magical about Santa Claus that hasn't anything to do with religion. Infact, what is religious about Santa Claus?

Or is it the case that when they eventually find out the story, they will have learned a valuable lesson about believing without evidence?

That could be the case. I'm not sure, to be honest.

Are these questions just taking everything way too seriously?

Yes.:D

Zillah

I think Christmas is a very important religious holiday.


It's pretty much the only one Mithra worshipers have left.

Genghiz Cohen

eightyfish wrote: »

Awe... but I'm bored in work now. :mad:

Yeah but you'll be bored in work in December, then where will you be?
Can't start another Christmas thread then, can you?

eightyfish

phutyle wrote: »

Althought I remeber when my brother was 5, he claimed he saw Santa down in the hall. He can still remember vividly what he saw (and no, it wasn't my dad dressed up), and so he uses the story to question people's claims that god exists based on a feeing or experience they had - as he could equally claim that Santa exists based on his personal experience.:D

Good story, I like the use of it against the "argument from experience".

I gleefully take part. I was about to say Christmas was never a religious thing for me as a kid, but thinking about it now, I felt guilty when we stopped going to mass for a little while. Then we'd only go at Christmas for a couple of years. Once I got older, we stopped going altogether. We never had a crib in the house, we never talked about the son of God or anything like that, but there was a bit of a religious thing there. I think it was more Catholic guilt on my Mother's part. (My Dad never went to mass).

Anyway... I've had people say Christmas is pointless without the Christianity so I just thought I'd thrown the questions out there. I think Dawkins had some similar questions thrown at him when he was on the Late Late?

I think the SC thing is a great example of real belief without proof. It all fell apart when I realised JC was SC.

pH

eightyfish wrote: »

Anyway... I've had people say Christmas is pointless without the Christianity so I just thought I'd thrown the questions out there. I think Dawkins had some similar questions thrown at him when he was on the Late Late?

As has been pointed out countless times before, "Christmas" is a mass celebrating Christ's birth, it's a Catholic tradition only, there's no evidence at all that it's really the date of his birth. For other Christian sects to reject Catholicism for all its non-scriptural traditions and beliefs, yet to happily go along with its non-scriptural "Christmas" tradition seems highly hypocritical of them.

As to the rest of "Christmas being pointless without the Christianity" its worth itemising the things you enjoy doing at Christmas and see which if any have a religious meaning, certainly turkey dinners, trees, fairy lights, cakes, mince pies, wrapped presents and Santa Claus do not.

MatthewVII

I'm perfectly happy celebrating the annual Nice Food and Presents Day. The fact that it started a religious holiday has no bearing on what it is today, even to most "religious" people.

bnt

In the USA, the War on Christmas has become an annual event now, as predictable as Christmas itself. The thing that most winds up the likes of Bill O'Reilly is how some retailers say something like "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", and some folks even make lists of those who don't, just to boycott them.

eightyfish

bnt wrote: »

In the USA, the War on Christmas has become an annual event now, as predictable as Christmas itself.

War on Christmas +
War on Drugs +
War on Terror =
War on Sense

20goto10

mmm yeah because christmas is all about Jesus and nothing to do with presents and Santa Claus :rolleyes: btw, the majority of the christmas customs come from the winter solstice festival called yule-tide. Pretty much everything except the baby jesus in a manger. Take the religion out of it and an atheist is free to celebrate without the risk of any hypocrisy. The only thing we're doing wrong is celebrating the start of winter 3 or 4 days too late.