Do you want to see a carbon tax?

fred_1985

You'd think applying a tax based on the myth that carbon causes "global warming" would be somehow illegal, that in a sane and logical world the reasoning behind taxes must have a solid and provable base. But then again when we see things like a blasphemy law (also based on an unproven myth) so it's disappointingly unsurprising.

A carbon tax means heating your home, driving your car, using electricity and presumably breathing and farting will all cost us that bit extra to do.

But the fun doesn't stop there, as always in business these extra costs are passed onto the customer, so public transport will increase and all goods will increase because of extra manufacturing and transport costs.

Where will the money raised from a carbon tax go anyway? Improving the environment as it should if it was a genuine and credible form of taxation? My arse it will.

The one thing stooopider than voting in Fianna Fail in the last few years has been voting in the Green Party. A country full of morons run by morons.

arybvtcw0eolkf

More Green Party hippy madness.

Hopefull the FF government don't agree to this, giving the hairy one's in the Green's reason to pull out of government (isn't that what they're really looking for).

Then we'll get the general election we've been baying for.

The FF'ers will be cast to the opposition benches for the next twenty years, the hippys will be destroyed as a party, Harney will fvck off to a celebrity fat farm somewhere and AH'ers will live happily ever after - except Degsy, until Bono dies.

.

galwayrush

We're over taxed as it is, they can feck off if they think i'm paying any more.:(

Whosbetter?

Well, we must have been pretty green ourselves to fall for that bollacks.:rolleyes:

Purple Gorilla

The ERSI's recommendation and expectation is that if a carbon tax is introduced, income taxes will be lowered so as to help restore Ireland's competitiveness.
It'll add about €70 a year to your car fuel expenses and €40 a year to your heating bill (Just over €3 extra a month) and in return your income taxes, PRSI levies etc. will be lowered..sort of seems like a fair deal considering you'll be paying pretty much the exact same but it should be easier on businesses

citizen_p

No... the world is fecked anyway......

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE
at some point

Morlar

The greens - going by the last elections they have a thundering mandate of about 2% of the population. They should be volounteering down the dole office to help with the queues they contributed to making and get out of Irish politics for good.

F*** the greens. The last thing this country needs is a carbon tax. It will increase the prices of EVERYTHING. Bus fares, dart tickets, home heating bills you name it - up significantly. This is possibly the worst time in the history of the state to introduce a new tax and this one is a political one to increase the hippy agenda. In****ingsane.

thomond2006

Do I want to see another tax?

Eh, no????? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ScumLord

Their ultimate plan is to tax all the elements of the periodic table so they can make up kind of silly tax they like.

thomond2006

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

The ERSI's Green's recommendation and expectation is that if a carbon tax is introduced, income taxes will be lowered so as to help restore Ireland's competitiveness.
It'll add about €70 a year to your car fuel expenses and €40 a year to your heating bill (Just over €3 extra a month) and in return your income taxes, PRSI levies etc. will be lowered..sort of seems like a fair deal considering you'll be paying pretty much the exact same but it should be easier on businesses

FYP

Four-Percent

Fook,i didn't mean to say yes

jumpguy

That's a tough one, there's so many advantages but public opposition is a serious factor.

Advantages:
1. It will get car manufacturers working even harder to create greener engines, therefore people can still by a 4x4 and pay minimal tax, an important marketing point
2. Unless it is direly needed (in which case an allowance could be made, such as heavy work/large families), people will be discouraged from buying gas guzzlers to carry their golf clubs.
3. Increases green awareness as concerned to vehicles
4. Increases government revenue.
5. Better for the environment!

Disadvantages:
1. People who already bought a gas-guzzler are ****ed, and some might say unfairly so.
2. Complicated system and I can see many loopholes/dishonesty going on.
3. Could be another pain in the hole even bigger than the NCT.
4. Might discourage an already troubled industry.
5. Unless allowances or made, large families, farmers, business' and construction would be very disproportionally taxed.
6. Will reduce Ireland's popularity with foreign investor.


I'm afraid I'll have to vote for the 3rd option.

Morlar

Four-Percent wrote: »

Fook,i didn't mean to say yes

& God just killed a kitten.

Purple Gorilla

thomond2006 wrote: »

FYP

No, you didn't.
ESRI Report published today, Page 30

Carbon taxation, applied as a tax on fuels, can correct the market failure arising in energy use by simply charging emitters for the damage done by CO2 emitted by combustion. Carbon taxation is a more effective instrument for reducing energy-sector CO2 emissions than other kinds of taxation on energy per se because it discriminates fairly between energy sources according to their greenhouse gas content (Stavins, 1997, p. 9). The abatement achieved by carbon taxes and the effect of the tax on the economy depend on several factors, including the point of application of the tax and what is done with the revenue. Studies undertaken in the Economic and Social Research Institute and elsewhere since 1992, shortly after the European Commission26 had proposed such an approach, have consistently shown that their macroeconomic impact depends on the use to which the revenues are put, after low-income households have been helped (Fitz Gerald and McCoy, 1992; Fitz Gerald et al., 2002; Bergin et al., 2004; Conefrey et al., 2008; Scott and Eakins, 2004; Callan et al., 2009). Carbon taxation’s impact can be depressing or mildly favourable. The favourable result occurs specifically in the case where the bulk of the revenue from a carbon tax is recycled to help the economy, through a reduction in taxes on labour (e.g. income tax or social insurance contributions). The importance of this finding is that it illustrates the fact that climate change policies could undermine the economy unless, by reducing labour costs, they address the potential setback to Ireland’s competitiveness. Subsequent work has had to allow for the fact that the range of application of carbon taxes was reduced when the sectors with large emitters joined the EU ETS (see below). But as both measures are basically a means of pricing emissions, the logical approach is to relate the two prices by, for example, setting the carbon tax annually at the permits futures price, suitably constrained to impart stability.

you fail

thomond2006 wrote: »

Do I want to see another tax?

Eh, no?????

You'll be quite disappointed then. We need more taxes to fill the structural deficit

oppenheimer1

I wouldn't mind if the net result of my overall tax burden was similar or less. ie greener alternatives get tax breaks while the more polluting options would be taxed highly. However its unlikely to be implemented in that way in Ireland. The introduction of a carbon tax is likely to increase the tax burden on ordinary people.

thelordofcheese

fred_1985 wrote: »

You'd think applying a tax based on the myth that carbon causes "global warming"

Aaaand here's where I stopped listening.

As long as it's implemented properly (as per the ERSI report) and not the crippled, half-assed cap and trade version in the states, then i'm all for it.

tolosenc

Every tax is inherently a bad thing. It's a restriction on your freedom to spend you money how you want, simple as. We're taxed more than most countries as it is, adding another one is just retarded. But what do we expect from that lot?

We need lower taxes, to get money into the pockets of the populous, so it will be spent, profits will be made, jobs created, wages banked, and money lended again. A kick start to the financial system, if you will.

Cookie_Monster

fred_1985 wrote: »

You'd think applying a tax based on the myth that carbon causes "global warming" would be somehow illegal

Eh? I didn't really read past this bit TBH. what myth are you talking about? Anyway it's CO2 not C that causes it :P

dr.bollocko

I guess my main concern is the prices at the pumps rising again. It's too goddamned expensive to drive in this country. Just because I have a car doesn't automatically make me a criminal.

Morlar

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Just because I have a car doesn't automatically make me a criminal.

Unless it runs on AAA batteries then as far as the green party are concerned you pretty much are.

Cookie_Monster

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I guess my main concern is the prices at the pumps rising again. It's too goddamned expensive to drive in this country. Just because I have a car doesn't automatically make me a criminal.

Petrol in Ireland is much cheaper than most EU countries.
Granted not as good as the US/middle east but still reasonable overall.

CJhaughey

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Petrol in Ireland is much cheaper than most EU countries.
Granted not as good as the US/middle east but still reasonable overall.

Petrol and diesel have to be cheaper, the public transport system that is prevalent in most European countries doesn't exist here.

ScumLord

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Aaaand here's where I stopped listening.

As long as it's implemented properly (as per the ERSI report) and not the crippled, half-assed cap and trade version in the states, then i'm all for it.

But it is a myth, it allows companies to pollute as much as they like as long as they don't burn it. There's no evidence our carbon output has any effect on the environment. All the chemicals and other pollutants definitely do have an effect though. They seem to think that this carbon tax will stop pollution when it won't even come close to even addressing it.

Quint

ScumLord wrote: »

But it is a myth, it allows companies to pollute as much as they like as long as they don't burn it. There's no evidence our carbon output has any effect on the environment. All the chemicals and other pollutants definitely do have an effect though. They seem to think that this carbon tax will stop pollution when it won't even come close to even addressing it.

I don't think they do, they couldn't give a rats ass about pollution. They'll get more money in though, and can pretend they care about pollution in the process.
It's like increasing duty on cigarettes. "it'll help discourage people from smoking" - yeah, that's the reason they're doing it:rolleyes:

Long Onion

It is all a myth - global warming my hump i've been freezing my proverbials off for the last 6 years. No one can convince me that the human race is changing the climate and i'll be fecked if anybody expects me to pay anything extra on foot of a fallacy dreamt up by people called traquin who want the wold to run on the fragrant breath of baby squirrells.

Get a job and leave me, my radiators, my car and my air travel the f*ck alone.

Seiously - work out what we would have to pay in carbon tax per capita and let those who believe all this sh1te cover the cost for those who have a bit of cop on.

For those waiting to pouce on this post - do so with concrete fact or else restrict yourselves to shouting at the screen.

Rant over

sparklepants

At current CO2 prices the tax will add around 3cent to a litre of petrol.

The fact that the price of petrol can rise by more than that on any given week and that this cash goes into the pockets of oil companies doesn't seem to bother people that much.

But if the price rise is in the form of a carbon tax where the increase can be put to use in the Irish economy they go ballistic.

Strange.

Biggins

Long Onion wrote: »

It is all a myth - global warming my hump i've been freezing my proverbials off for the last 6 years. No one can convince me that the human race is changing the climate and i'll be fecked if anybody expects me to pay anything extra on foot of a fallacy dreamt up by people called traquin who want the wold to run on the fragrant breath of baby squirrells.

Get a job and leave me, my radiators, my car and my air travel the f*ck alone.

Seiously - work out what we would have to pay in carbon tax per capita and let those who believe all this sh1te cover the cost for those who have a bit of cop on.

For those waiting to pouce on this post - do so with concrete fact or else restrict yourselves to shouting at the screen

Point of order!
Before you go shouting for others to back up their possible retorting facts or statements -
Would you please supply your own first to prove it's all a myth as you claim!!!

Maybe you should lead by example? :rolleyes:

Long Onion

Biggins wrote: »

Point of order!
Before you go shouting for others to back up their possible retorting facts or statements -
Would you please supply your own first to prove it's all a myth as you claim!!!

Maybe you should lead by example? :rolleyes:

Nope, I'm not suggesting changes to the current status quo.

fred_1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Eh? I didn't really read past this bit TBH. what myth are you talking about? Anyway it's CO2 not C that causes it :P

Well Carbon Monoxide is also mentioned in some of the claims about Global Warming, so I didn't want to limit myself to just CO2.

If you "really didn't read past this bit" then why even bother replying to the post?

I think it's gotten to the point where the human race wants to convince itself that it has the importance / power to effect such a change on the Earths climate.

There is no concrete evidence that C02 is the source of climate change, and there is plenty of fact to show that the likelihood of C02 being the source is very, very small.

Some arguments

Myrddin

Just pokin' my head in here.....ONE transatlantic flight, creates 1.2 TONNES of co2 PER PASSENGER. One Flight!!!

To tax people based on their cars engine size, in my opion, is quite frankly ridiculous. Its not gonna make ANY difference on a global level, not matter WHAT car anybody drives. Consider all the international flights going on around the world in one day, consider the amount of co2 from industrailism all around the world in one day, consider how many cars are active in the USA in one day, in russia, in india, in china, in canada. Being "green" is an unbelieavble waste of time and effort. NO HUMAN...in their day to day activities, can make ANY difference globally. Not considering global co2 output from sources above.

Not a concerted effort of driving electrical cars, cycling, energy efficient light bulbs, turning tv's off instead of standby, and all the usual crap, none of it can influence global co2 levels. To introduce a tax with the pre-tense of it helping the environment is just another stealth tax. Another form of double taxation. Its a form of revenue generation. Any anyone who thinks they are contributing to lowering CO2 levels, I suggest you educate yourself to the larger scheme of things.

junkyard

No, it's just another tax brought in by a bunch of dickhe@ds whose only talent is to squander our money.

Myrddin

junkyard wrote: »

No, it's just another tax brought in by a bunch of dickhe@ds whose only talent is to squander our money.

Classic sig it has to be said - polytics :D