Fair play to him!

Vélo

Here

I don't think anyone has mentioned it here yet.

Bunnyhopper

Good example for him to set. It'll be interesting to see who follows suit, and who doesn't.

Lumen

Very impressive, given the potential advantage this sort of information gives his competitors.

It's been interesting to follow the TdF power data on the Garmin and Saris websites, but it's been a bit thin, particularly after the first few days. It would be really cool to see Wiggins' data from the key stages. I doubt that'll happen though.

lukester

One more reason to like Wiggins. He listens to Joy Division, has a Vespa, and gives the best, no-sh1te, interviews.

Black socks are the only anomaly.

unionman

lukester wrote: »

He listens to Joy Division

I officially like him the best just for that. My favourite band.

jinka

unionman wrote: »

I officially like him the best just for that. My favourite band.

Just in...
They broke up mate.

Chips Lovell

Countdown till Lumen starts publishing his blood results in 5... 4... 3....

kmart6

Good move to shut people up!

emtroche

And contador won't even tell people what his vo2 max is!!

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

Countdown till Lumen starts publishing his blood results in 5... 4... 3....

Haemoglobin: 14.1
MCH: 30.9
MCHC: 34.8
MCV: 88.7

That's all I have so far. No HCT

niceonetom

lukester wrote: »

One more reason to like Wiggins.

He's a very likeable guy I think - I really don't get this stuff about him being a bad interview either, I think he's a million times better than the usual "at-the-end-of-the-day" sportmen. He endeared himself to me even more on the lap of honour on the Champs Elysée. He had a bottle of beer in his hand and as the Columbia team were coming in the other direction was clearly shouting something at Cavendish and giving him two fingers. But in a nice way.

ROK ON

Having spent the past few days reading Breaking the Chain and A Dog in a Hat, I have come to the conclusion that pro cycling is a barbaric depressing circus rather than a sport. Those books shocked me in a way that Bad Blood, Pantani and From Lance to Landis did not.

It is for this reason that I so want to believe Wiggo. He simply has to be clean. I am realistic enough to know that cheating has always and will always exist. However the sport really needs BW to be the norm rather than an abberation. I hope that other cyclists will follow suit on this one. It is appauling to think how cynical people are regarding cycling. I mean that an athlete should have to publish stats to show prove he is clean says it all really.
BW comes across verywell. I so hope that (1) he is clean and (2) that his example is followed.
He needs to be the norm, not thje exception.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

He's a very likeable guy I think - I really don't get this stuff about him being a bad interview either, I think he's a million times better than the usual "at-the-end-of-the-day" sportmen. He endeared himself to me even more on the lap of honour on the Champs Elysée. He had a bottle of beer in his hand and as the Columbia team were coming in the other direction was clearly shouting something at Cavendish and giving him two fingers. But in a nice way.

Agree completely. Aside from the one interview where he was completely shagged he came across brilliantly all tour. Every interview (and a fair few twitter posts) puts a smile on my face. That someone with Olympic golds appeared to come to the tour having prepared so well but still have such apparently modest expectations says a lot about the race, and the rider.

unionman

ROK ON wrote: »

Having spent the past few days reading Breaking the Chain and A Dog in a Hat, I have come to the conclusion that pro cycling is a barbaric depressing circus rather than a sport. Those books shocked me in a way that Bad Blood, Pantani and From Lance to Landis did not.

It is for this reason that I so want to believe Wiggo. He simply has to be clean. I am realistic enough to know that cheating has always and will always exist. However the sport really needs BW to be the norm rather than an abberation. I hope that other cyclists will follow suit on this one. It is appauling to think how cynical people are regarding cycling. I mean that an athlete should have to publish stats to show prove he is clean says it all really.
BW comes across verywell. I so hope that (1) he is clean and (2) that his example is followed.
He needs to be the norm, not thje exception.

All good points, all of those books soound interesting. It occured to me that if enough riders did what BW is doing, you could get critical mass eventually as 'disclosing' riders would constitute the leaders of a 'clean' tour. Everyone else would look dirty by virtue of non-disclosure.

But I'm confused, didn't Lance promise to be tested regularly by one particualr doctor and put the results on the record?

I don't follow these developments nearly as much as a lot of you, so pardon the innocence / ignorance inherent in the question.

But BW emerging as a thoroughly solid bloke (in this thread anyway).

Running Bing

Vélo wrote: »

Here

I don't think anyone has mentioned it here yet.

Cant understand (read:I absolutely can understand) why more cyclists dont do this?

I mean if I was clean and had a bunch of people saying I was doping Id sure as **** release the material that would clear my name.

scottreynolds

unionman wrote: »

But I'm confused, didn't Lance promise to be tested regularly by one particualr doctor and put the results on the record?

Yes, and then no. The problem he said was he and the doctor couldn't agree on what aspects to publish. The problem has said was that too much was open to intepretation.

Jawgap

Lumen wrote: »

Very impressive, given the potential advantage this sort of information gives his competitors.

It's been interesting to follow the TdF power data on the Garmin and Saris websites, but it's been a bit thin, particularly after the first few days. It would be really cool to see Wiggins' data from the key stages. I doubt that'll happen though.

Excuse my ignorance but how will the competition gain an advantage from the information published?

lukester

ROK ON wrote: »

Having spent the past few days reading Breaking the Chain and A Dog in a Hat, I have come to the conclusion that pro cycling is a barbaric depressing circus rather than a sport. Those books shocked me in a way that Bad Blood, Pantani and From Lance to Landis did not.

Can't remember where I read this, might have been the interview with Dick Pound in Procycling, where he said the current climate in cycling is like being in a bar where most people are drunk and a few guys are trying not to drink, with the others are all urging them to lighten up and have a few.

There are small signs of a change coming, hopefully they indicate a slow move in the right direction.

Lumen

Jawgap wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but how will the competition gain an advantage from the information published?

If you know a riders weight, threshold power and blood values you have a decent chance of working out how hard you have to push them before they pop. Human physiology is fairly straightforward.

Contador looked effortless this tour which meant everyone was fighting for the scraps, but he may have been on the ragged edge and hiding it really well*.

* Yes, I know.

Liamo08

scottreynolds wrote: »

Yes, and then no. The problem he said was he and the doctor couldn't agree on what aspects to publish. The problem has said was that too much was open to intepretation.

Not sure if this has been posted before but Armstrong posted some of his results here http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/lance-armstrongs-drug-testing-results-4-7-2009/ not sure what the story is since April. It looks like these results come from official tests ie UCI etc. Does anyone know how the results of these tests are relayed to the riders, do they get a report every 6 months or whats the story?

Having spent the past few days reading Breaking the Chain and A Dog in a Hat, I have come to the conclusion that pro cycling is a barbaric depressing circus rather than a sport. Those books shocked me in a way that Bad Blood, Pantani and From Lance to Landis did not.

Yeah read Breaking the Chain as well it's certainly an eye opener and the scary part is that there's not a lot from the last 10 years in it, who knows what is going on now.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

If you know a riders weight, threshold power and blood values you have a decent chance of working out how hard you have to push them before they pop. Human physiology is fairly straightforward.

Lumen's got it spot on. It's scary how well people seem to be able to calculate this stuff.

Lumen wrote: »

Contador looked effortless this tour which meant everyone was fighting for the scraps, but he may have been on the ragged edge and hiding it really well*.

* Yes, I know.

Contador actually has a very good race face. Before he blew on that stage in Paris - Nice he didn't look like he was struggling at all.

lukester

Anyone care to speculate why, given the suspicions around Contador, purer than pure Garmin would even express a public interest in him?

petethedrummer

unionman wrote: »

Everyone else would look dirty by virtue of non-disclosure.

Journalists could use this as a stick to beat other suspicious riders with. "To quash any rumours of doping, why don't you do what Wiggins did?"

Cue lots of weasel words...

emtroche

lukester wrote: »

Anyone care to speculate why, given the suspicions around Contador, purer than pure Garmin would even express a public interest in him?

I dont believe they ever actually did.

Chips Lovell

emtroche wrote: »

I dont believe they ever actually did.

Vaughters said they did. They even sent him two team bikes.

lukester

emtroche wrote: »

I dont believe they ever actually did.

From here

Team Garmin-Slipstream will pursue Alberto Contador if the two-time Tour de France winner becomes available after the potential breakup of his team, Garmin-Slipstream sporting director Jonathan Vaughters said Sunday.

" We'd be interested," Vaughters said. "But there are so many variables. We'll have a better idea in 10 days or two weeks."

lukester

@ el tonto What's your take on it, given the apparent mismatch of 'interests'?

emtroche

Fair enough.

Strange though.

BryanL

lukester wrote: »

Anyone care to speculate why, given the suspicions around Contador, purer than pure Garmin would even express a public interest in him?

He's never failed a drugs test,LOL. He's clean:rolleyes:

'68 Fastback

I'm keeping an eye on the cervelo test team. I reckon if the bike companies get more involved in the marketing and sponsership of teams they might want to keep their riders clean to protect their branding. I'm not suggesting that they were but if the cervelo team prove to have been involved in doping i think it would hurt their bike sales. I think its a good move in the right direction.

If BW was into Lambrettas instead of poxy Vespas I'd be convinced of his honesty:P

Slideshowbob

Lumen wrote: »

If you know a riders weight, threshold power and blood values you have a decent chance of working out how hard you have to push them before they pop. Human physiology is fairly straightforward.

Contador looked effortless this tour which meant everyone was fighting for the scraps, but he may have been on the ragged edge and hiding it really well*.

* Yes, I know.

that's poppy cock - people have good days and bad days and the whole range of days in between

if that was the case the same guys would always win certain types of races

also some guys can push themselves harder in a test than in a race and visa versa

Lumen

Slideshowbob wrote: »

that's poppy cock - people have good days and bad days and the whole range of days in between

if that was the case the same guys would always win certain types of races

also some guys can push themselves harder in a test than in a race and visa versa

If there's no competitive advantage to non-disclosure, then the only reason why professional cyclists are so cagey about their stats is because they're doping. Which I'd rather not believe.

Or...?

blorg

@Slideshowbob- this is true but I can only imagine that the information must have some value to competitors and you want to keep them in the dark as much as possible. You could presumably get an idea of how successfully someone was peaking (or more interestingly if they were under pressure with a lowered HCT?) How much I don't know, I will defer to the guys who know more about this sort of thing.

Chips Lovell

Garmin Slipstream just mailed me Wiggins' blood results. I must be on their journalist's mailing list now

Chips Lovell

See attached:

Also, press release:

Bradley Wiggins Hemoglobin and Off Score Data Release

Team Garmin-Slipstream is dedicated to total transparency and ethical sportsmanship. Please find attached Bradley Wiggins’ hemoglobin and off score data from 2008 training camp through the 2009 Tour de France. This profile indicates no evidence of blood manipulation.

“Brad is an exceptionally talented athlete and it was great to see him do so well in the Tour de France. He’s always been an outspoken advocate of clean cycling. He requested that we release his results after the Tour and his decision makes me and the entire team proud,” said Jonathan Vaughters, CEO of Slipstream Sports.

Chips Lovell

Of course, as a layman, it's a bit over my head.

Liamo08

el tonto wrote: »

Of course, as a layman, it's a bit over my head.

Anyone able to give a bit of insight into what these number show us?

Armstrong has some results published up until the end of the Giro here:

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

Anyone any opinion on those number?

ednwireland

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-values-point-to-cleaner-peloton

bit of analysis here still means little to me though

petethedrummer

What are the dots then?? The actual tests and the line is drawn through them to give the curve? They could make it a bit clearer.

Lumen

That Garmin press release is a bit thin. I understand the need to avoid confusing arts-educated journos but the Kimmage's of the world could use some more detail, maybe on the team website.

Minor whinge though, a very pleasing development.

niceonetom

I too am impressed by the genture, and find it reassuring, but the actual data is so thin as to be useless and - if one were very paranoid - looks very easily fabricated. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS FABRICATED. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THEY COULD HAVE PROVIDED GRAPHS THAT DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY WERE MADE BY A SOIGNEUR IN A HURRY IN MS EXCEL AND SOME ACTUAL NUMBERS.

Was Brad really only tested 4 times on whole first half of 2009? And 4 times between Feb and June 2008? Was he not tested at all between January and March of this year? the paucity of data points and the relative gaps between them could make those very smooth curves a bit of a nonsense. If he was tested more often than that (I would hope that garmin's internal testing is more regular than the graph suggests) then why are these values omitted from the graphs?

I do believe he's clean, and I'm DELIGHTED he's setting this precedent that can be waved at other, less forthcoming riders. But while he's setting precedents it would have been even better if he'd set the bar even higher with a fuller disclosure of blood values.

Anyway, he's a hero.