Suggestions please on diagnosing wireless connection issues

Wexfordian

I am currently connected on a wireless ISP network, where I'm about 8k from the mast, using a directional antenna. For a while now my connection would go awol at fairly fixed intervals during the day (usually about lunchtime, about 5 and about 8), in that the ping rate would jump through the roof (up to 1500ms to the mast) and the connection speed would correspondingly drop to unusable. Lately however this has gone from occasionally during the day to nearly constantly.

Now I know the obvious answer to this is traffic, particularly when you look at the times of the slowdowns, however the tech guys at my ISP have spent such a long time actively searching for issues and monitoring traffic for me (not to mention supplying me with non work emails skypes and phone numbers to query slowdowns outside office hours!) that I'm willing to give them a large benefit of the doubt when they say that they can find nothing on their side (or at least nothing else, they have found a couple of issues and eliminated them), and indeed can see the antenna clearly, as the tech guy put it, at -70db. When it does work its a good strong signal.

So my question is, assuming (for the moment) that the issue doesn't lie with the mast, what could I be looking at that would be interfering between the antenna on the house and the mast? I have a line of sight, don't think it can be trees or anything else solid as the interruption is regular, and there are no other masts or transmitters in the immediate vacinity of the line of sight? My internal connection through the router to the antenna seems solid as a rock, but is there any way of diagnosing an issue with the antenna itself?

Any suggestions gratefully received....

PogMoThoin

Are You running wirelessly in the house? Is it just one pc? Have You tried a different pc? Did You get them to sniff Your traffic for something odd? Any bittorrent programs installed like limewire, kazza, bearshare etc?

-70db is a very respectable signal. What frequency is the equipment?

lucernarian

As you've a proactive ISP who are trying their best, and you can't really associate the times with anything, a solution isn't clear as you know already.

Suggestions: Has the possibility of relocating the small aerial to somewhere else on your house been investigated, or pointing it towards another mast?

Has the aerial (it usually contains the radio transmitter too) been replaced with another one, even if temporarily, to see if it makes a difference?

Are you sure there's nothing going on around the house (e.g. a heating/water/other thermostat being operated, or even anything being switched on at the times) that could cause it? A thought just occured to me, a microwave can have a detrimental on some (indeed all) wireless broadband technologies. Wireless broadband works on microwave frequencies too, and a very slightly "leaky" microwave can mess that up. Have a good think about it, and see if any pattern could be established.

Is the company certain that no one else doesn't have the problem? There's a chance other people have it, but haven't bothered complaining or haven't noticed it because of the timing etc.


Edit: PogMoThoin had some good suggestions there. But find a different computer to try, as it will rule in or out some of the other issues he mentioned. You won't need to "packet sniff" if you can get a lend of a laptop for example.

Some_Person

What ISP are you with? I also have wireless and often experience this rubbish, contention or over-subscription is the problem here.

hightower1

+1 for packet sniffing there, I have seen lot of issues where people would scream high heaven for contention as their slowdowns were @ peak times 5-10pm. If your ISP says there is no contention issue then you have no choice but accept it, cant demand the info off them right.
Issue could be though a wpa or wep hack. If some yobbo is coming in from work at that time and ether doesnt have his own access or is "borrowing" your IP then their likely to be at this time. From your point of view it would look like contention due to the patter but contention is only nerd speak for human behavioral patterns lol.

Worth a check anyway

Wexfordian

Thanks for the suggestions guys. To go through them:

2 Laptops (sometimes three) on the internal network via a wireless linksys router. They all have issues, and although I haven't explicitly checked that the degradation is the same at the same time, the wife swearing test would indicate they are. The bittorrent one is interesting, I went through the laptop with wireshark and there was something odd going on with the remanents of a bittorrent program. Since then I have rebuilt the laptop from scratch to Vista 64 bit, and that is now gone away. That was several weeks ago.

No idea what the frequency of the equipment (I presume you mean the antenna?) is I'm afraid, the antenna itself is a standard directional mesh one with a Bullet2HP added to it.

I haven't tried moving the mast as its chimney mounted (and largish!), not sure that anything else will be high enough.

The microwave theory is interesting though, will have a look at that. I should have mentioned earlier that there definately is an interferance source as MW and LW radio are being interfered with around the house, but blowed if I can track it down to a source.

Wexfordian

Some_Person wrote: »

What ISP are you with? I also have wireless and often experience this rubbish, contention or over-subscription is the problem here.

I know what your saying here, but I'm reasonably happy that its not, enough to look elsewhere for a while anyway. I've had the ISP send me a screen dump of their own monitoring software showing that at times when this is happening there has only been me and one or two others on line all basically just ticking over. Its for that reason I'm kinda avoiding naming the ISP....

Some_Person

If your antenna is a Bullet2HP with a grid then it is using the 2.4ghz frequency. Can you login to the antenna to check what channel it's using?(possible interference from your Linksys router).

As for who the isp is....does their name start with an "A"?

Wexfordian

hightower1 wrote: »

Issue could be though a wpa or wep hack. If some yobbo is coming in from work at that time and ether doesnt have his own access or is "borrowing" your IP then their likely to be at this time. From your point of view it would look like contention due to the patter but contention is only nerd speak for human behavioral patterns lol.

Worth a check anyway

Hmm, true. Can't hurt to change my key anyway.

PogMoThoin

Ok, its a Ubiquiti Bullet means its 2.4Ghz, this is unlicenced and your router, baby monitor, ip camera or tv sender could be causing noise. Try changing channel on your Linksys and any other devices in Your house. Download Netstumbler and see what channels are in use nearby. A -70db signal is no good if noise is high.

Edit: even if its not the issue its no harm knowing what channels are in use in hour house

Wexfordian

Some_Person wrote: »

If your antenna is a Bullet2HP with a grid then it is using the 2.4ghz frequency. Can you login to the antenna to check what channel it's using?(possible interference from your Linksys router).

As for who the isp is....does their name start with an "A"?

Antennas on 7, Linksys is on 1. One curiousity about this is that the ISP say its on 11, buy my antenna says 7, have pointed this out, they didn't seem concerned but....

As for the ISP starting with A, nope, actually have no idea who that would be!

PogMoThoin

Wexfordian wrote: »

Antennas on 7, Linksys is on 1. One curiousity about this is that the ISP say its on 11, buy my antenna says 7, have pointed this out, they didn't seem concerned but....

As for the ISP starting with A, nope, actually have no idea who that would be!

How do You know what channel its on, have You access to it? If the ap is 8miles away You'll not be picking this up on your laptop to know. How do You know?

Wexfordian

PogMoThoin wrote: »

How do You know what channel its on, have You access to it? If the ap is 8miles away You'll not be picking this up on your laptop to know. How do You know?

Well, its entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding the data I'm looking at, but I'm relying on the bridge software telling me the channel to the AP. I'm assuming that this is the firmware on the antenna on my side that I'm looking at.

PogMoThoin

Bridge software? Do You have access to the ubiquiti?

Wexfordian

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Bridge software? Do You have access to the ubiquiti?

Not the ubiquiti, it predates that, and didn't change when it was installed.No, its a control screen that comes up when I put in the IP address supplied by the ISP. The meta data comes up as 802.11b Bridge and at the bottom of teh screen it shows the results of the most recent scan with SSID MAC Channel signal strength and Mode. If I remove the supplied SSID and just let it scan I pick up a number of other masts (all IrishWan unfortunately), hence I assumed it was the antenna itself.

PogMoThoin

Wow, You're logging into the access point. You can see the encryption key, right? What kinda Isp is this lax about security? If they're this poor on security, maybe its contention and not a wireless issue

Wexfordian

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Ok, its a Ubiquiti Bullet means its 2.4Ghz, this is unlicenced and your router, baby monitor, ip camera or tv sender could be causing noise. Try changing channel on your Linksys and any other devices in Your house. Download Netstumbler and see what channels are in use nearby. A -70db signal is no good if noise is high.

Edit: even if its not the issue its no harm knowing what channels are in use in hour house

Unfortunately netstumber seems to no longer work with Vista64. I'll need to dig out something with XP. Though if I remember correctly the only thing that used to appear was the linksys. That may however have predated this issue, can't remember how long ago I used it.

Wexfordian

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Wow, You're logging into the access point. You can see the encryption key, right? What kinda Isp is this lax about security? If they're this poor on security, maybe its contention and not a wireless issue

At this point I would have to go "Dunno?". Never seemed that big a deal to me that I could access everything on my side, but I'm not a techy of any sort (this may be obvious!)

lucernarian

It's lax in a sense, but it would take a determined person with the right antenna etc to really take advantage of it. I think people are too lazy to bother at that, and the exceptions are rarely found in Wexford or any other generally rural area.

The interference on MW is a big deal. If it occurs simultaneously with the internet problems, then you're literally listening to the problem. Can you get your hands on a cheap pocket AM/FM radio? I think you should take a walk round where you live:pac: It seems like you already know it, but select a fairly clear frequency and see what changes happen when the internet goes to crap.

Also, you have another advantage with using a little pocket radio. A good way of ruling out electrical interference coming from your house, is to switch off the electricity to the house while you hear the interference on the radio. That'll almost completely rule in/out the house for containing the problem.

Fuzzy Clam

Don't waste too much time trying to find the source of MW/LW interference.
Almost all household electrical items cause it to a degree. Computers/laptops, CFL bulbs, TVs, immersion timers etc. Even broadband internet.
Your wireless is in a much higher part of the spectrum so its unlikey to be affected by interference down on 500 kHz.

lucernarian

That's not actually true. Interference, unless it's deliberate, doens't have tuner circuits built in. Normally it's very, very wide bandwidth and affects many RF items equally. Just have a look at UK forums that deal with people having problems with freeview. Noise that's generated by sparking has almost infinite bandwidth I believe. Unless proper precautions are taken (supressor resistors etc).

The OP also drew attention to interference problems on MW. I'm waiting to hear back from Wexfordian on whether they happen at the same time as the internet going wonky, but I assume he mentioned MW interference because it did seem to happen at the same time.

It's a very big coincidence, isn't it?

Also, by its very nature, wireless broadband isn't supposed to be affected by everyday household electrical noise. Otherwise there wouldn't be an industry in WiMax, UMTS, GSM etc!

So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing out the small electrical noise generated by energy efficient bulbs and tellies??

fintaneduffy

i would start by bypassing the router for starters, and having a direct link, that would eliminate interference at the 2.4Ghz the router may be running at.

Fuzzy Clam

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing out the small electrical noise generated by energy efficient bulbs and tellies??

I'm not tyring to prove anything.

I would more surprised if the OP wasn't picking up interference on the AM bands given that there are several PCs in the house along with any other equipment that may be kicking out ****.
It is unlikely that eliminating this is going to make any difference.
Noise generated by sparking, or arcing, is a possibility as you say.

Wexfordian

Right folks, thanks for all the help and suggestions. Firstly re the MW/LW interferance. Is definately being caused by the router and antenna, but doesn't look like the reverse is true (and also by the dishwasher on standby for some reason). Not entirely sure how to cure, but howsoever.

Nothing else internally seemed to affect the ping rates. running PingPlotter at teh moment, see if that gives me any clues....

lucernarian

I want to have this clear in my head. So, there is substantial interference while the fixed wireless broadband connection and its router is switched on? 802.11 equipment causing MW interference, now that is a new one on me:D

Wexfordian

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I want to have this clear in my head. So, there is substantial interference while the fixed wireless broadband connection and its router is switched on? 802.11 equipment causing MW interference, now that is a new one on me:D

Well, when the router is unplugged the interference drops a bit, when the antenna is unplugged it goes away completely...

Fuzzy Clam

Wexfordian, is it possible for your ISP to move you to a different channel?
If there's someone within line of sight of your aerial with wireless on the same channel, it may affect the SNR. Only a thought.

Fuzzy Clam

Another long shot. If the interference on AM is only there when the connection is poor, then the fault may be in the equipment/power supply and the noise on AM is a result of that.

PogMoThoin

If they're that lax on security try login to that Uniquiti on 192.168.1.20 with ubnt, password ubnt, maybe they've not changed it. This would give You access to the mesh to scan Your local area for devices on the same channel, You'll also see readings for noise on the first page and when You do a scan

Some_Person

It could also be hidden node collisions from other CPEs that your CPE can't see, but I'd say it's most likely contention, especially if it's a 802.11B AP, then there is only 5mbits of bandwith available between loads of customers.

lucernarian

Some good suggestions there this evening. I doubt it's contention, due to the sudden onset and specific timing of it.

Wexfordian, could you answer a couple of questions for me please? They're just for clarity.

Has the ISP carried out any action in trying a replacement antenna/receiving equipment?

Is the MW interference constantly present whenever both the router/antenna are switched on, or is it worse when your internet connection goes to hell?

Anyway, I'd give logging into the uniquiti a shot. Just don't change any settings:eek:! It'd be useful to see what the noise values are at different times while having the major slowdowns.

Some_Person

Yeah check the signal strength and noise floor, you don't want a signal any weaker than -75dbm(lower is better).

lucernarian

The OP gave the signal strength as being -70dBm, so no worries there.

Maints

Has the power supply been changed?

Try with another power supply (12v to 24V, 1 Amp) and see if there is an improvement.

Paul..

Some_Person

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The OP gave the signal strength as being -70dBm, so no worries there.

Yes but he could watch it when his connection turns bad and see if it changes a bit etc.

lucernarian

It'll be the SNR that'll fluctuate really. To be fair the actual strength could change too in a fault, but the status page of the unit will likely have both numbers anyway. Perhaps PogMoThoin could advise us on that bit.

PogMoThoin

First page of the Ubiquiti firmware will have the info (that is only if it has the latest firmware, older firmwares don't give a noise level). The ideal situation is to have 20db or more between the signal and noise level. A signal of -70db is only very good with a noise of 90db, perfect if noise is 100db, ie more than 20 between them.

Try login to the Ubiquiti with ubnt, password ubnt, its ip to login on will be Your gateway when You "ipconfig /all" (that is unless its backed onto another router) from Your pc

I'm actually convinced its contention