Sayoc Sama Sama 2009

Dave Joyce

Although I've been back a while from this year's Sama Sama, I'm only now getting back to normal and things a settling down a little. Once again, this was an amazing week of training and a chance to hang out with some friends and plenty of guests including a couple of SEALS, SF guys and the Hollywood producer Jim Jacks was there for a couple of days.

Training was extremely long, with lots of material to be covered over a relatively short period.

We started on Friday night with Tracker Dan (Survival School Instructor and former Navy SEAL) teaching Escape, Evasion and Camoflage which went from 7pm-2.30am. This was excellent instruction from a great teacher and the chasing/searching was made all the more interesting with SF/SEALS looking for you:eek:

Sama Sama started officially on Sat morning at 9am and we spent most of the day working material from the Instructor training programme finishing at 7.30pm. We were given until 10pm to have dinner and then we kicked off with training from some of the full instructors, working various aspects. We then had Tuhon Raf teach Tomahawk, Tuhon Ric taught bladework and finally Tuhon Tom with stickgrappling. Finally, at around 3am:eek:, we had 2 full contact stick fights on the rough gravel ground.

We covered so much material over the next two days I've totally forgotten the order and even the day we did lock flows from Manong Muhammed, Sikaran kicking and empty hands with Tuhon Felix, Kerambit with Tuhon Ray and important principles/concepts in blade sparring with Tuhon Jimmy Sayoc with some very interesting training modifiers. Again both days were very long hours, Sun 9am-7pm and then back for Sayaw at 10pm with Atienza Kali double sword training at midnight, while Mon is normally a relatively easy day, this was not the case this year with training starting at 9am and finishing at bout 7pm.

Tue was Tactical day, from 10am-8pm and this was something I was really looking forward to. We ran various types of scenario's utilising Paint ball guns (which were cranked up to the last and left some REAL reminders) Smak sticks and worked in various unit sizes. Brilliant day with some great material.

Finally, we had Wed/Thur/Fri for a Blade Forging course with Tuhon Tom Kier. We were looking at least 30 hours between lectures, forging, filing and finishing the blades. We started with a flat rough piece of 10/40 steel and had to forge a knife. Every single aspect of this course was fantastic and a real learning exercise and something everyone who professes to teach any kind of bladework should do. This is a clip of the first Forging camp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdPxCO7m270

Don't have any before and after pictures, just the finished product but here is one of Guro Nicks finished blade and what he started with (same again at this camp)


These are pictures of my finished blade, which considering how many thumbs I have, I'm really happy with. When I checked my pictures, I found out Guro Victor, the Sayoc photographer was correct when he said we would find out how difficult it is to take a picture of a blade. Second photo is slightly better

Musashi

Nice job on your knife lad! Were ye going totally primitive on the making of these or did ye use gas torchs rather than charcoal or coke fires?

How did ye temper and quench the blades, oil, water, goop quench? Did ye normalise the heat treated blades, torch, heated pliers to draw a soft back temper or done using an edge quench and oven cycle to normalise?

I have an interest in knife making and I just like to know who the lads are going about their making!

A guy on a forum I'm a member of recently bought a Winkler/Sayoc Hawk, nice looking bit of kit

Quillo

Musashi wrote: »

A guy on a forum I'm a member of recently bought a Winkler/Sayoc Hawk, nice looking bit of kit

€600 for a tomahawk is a lot of money when you can get a perfectly good Cold Steel Vietnam jobbie for €50 or a SOG Fusion for about 10 bucks more ! Even the pricey Emerson stuff comes in under €200........

Jayz, I'd be afraid to take a €600 'hawk out of it's box :eek:

Dave Joyce

A guy on a forum I'm a member of recently bought a Winkler/Sayoc Hawk, nice looking bit of kit

Yea, the Hawk is a classic. I got to see one of the first Sayoc Hawks made (before the Winkler partnership) when we were on the way to Fort Bragg a couple of years ago. Tuhon Tom was bringing it down to Virginia Beach to give some of the SEALS a look. It was tested out on sheet metal without a bit of damage, can't remember what type of steel was used BUT it was hard AND sharp as hell.

Were ye going totally primitive on the making of these or did ye use gas torchs rather than charcoal or coke fires?

THAT was the hard part. We used a charcoal fire, so apart from the immense heat, my frigging arms were going to fall off from using the 4lb lump hammers:eek:.

How did ye temper and quench the blades, oil, water, goop quench?

They were tempered with a mix of ground bone, blood etc and quickly quenched with water. (The lads who had done the camp previously had used a better grade of steel and they used a heavy oil to quench their blades). The blades were normalised using a magnet and with an Oxy Acelene set. We had only four anvils and there were a dozen of us taking part so we were the second group (the experienced guys had to go last:)) and as such lost some time and we didn't get to hot file our blades but it was a blast and I would love to do it again.

Musashi

€600 for a tomahawk is a lot of money when you can get a perfectly good Cold Steel Vietnam jobbie for €50

It is a lot of Euros alright, that's why I have a Cold Steel Norse axe I sharpened up on a mouse mat and sprayed flat black

I'd love one of the modded Trail Hawks the lads are doing over on the Bladeforums Axe and Hawk forum too!

can't remember what type of steel was used BUT it was hard AND sharp as hell.

That one was made of S30V, a Crucible Particle Metal developed for cutlery use, looks like the new Winkler R&D Hawk is made of S7, an air hardening tool steel?

A water quench on tool steel blades, it's a wonder ye didn't have any crack or shatter! Probably 01 steel as it's very handy to get and work, but makes a tough old blade as well.

Good job on it any way Dave, must dig out the billet I got a while back and see if I can't do a little stock removal. I'd love to forge but the neighbours would hardly appreciate the hammering, or the swearing!

Quillo

Cold Steel Rifleman 'hawk is one of the most useful axes I've come across. Hammer boss on the reverse is excellent.

The spike you get on "tactical" 'hawks scares the crap out of me, as you seem to be permanently at risk of smacking yerself with it.... can't see what actual use it has that the blade end can't deal with either ?

Musashi

I clipped myself in the back of the head once when I was using a Mattock to dig a trench! Someone had shortened the handle a little for thei own reasons

Some of the spikes are way too long to be of any use, the Peter Lagana Ranger ones and the Sayoc are much shorter looking. Maybe they offer better penetration in wall breaching or something?

For more military applications I can't imagine being left down by a hammer poll, and it opens up other choices in utility use as well. I imagine it would make a good trail clearing and camping tool!

Apparently the guy who owns the one on the other forum didn't pay for his either, it's an issued item?

Dave Joyce

The spike you get on "tactical" 'hawks scares the crap out of me

I definately know what you mean there, one of the SEALS was taking a close look at the spike and pressed it gently with his thumb and it still went about half an inch into his thumb, they ARE sharp.

can't see what actual use it has that the blade end can't deal with either ?

It most certainly can do things that the blade head can't. If we meet up at some stage Martin, I can show you the Tomahawk template and you'll see how the spike is applied;). Although I don't own one, if I had the money, it would most definately be one of top list buys.

Quillo

Dave Joyce wrote: »

It most certainly can do things that the blade head can't. If we meet up at some stage Martin, I can show you the Tomahawk template and you'll see how the spike is applied;). Although I don't own one, if I had the money, it would most definately be one of top list buys.

Cheers Dave,

Have worked through the template as shown on one of the Sama Sama DVDs (forget which year) and compared/combined the material with the Dwight McLemore Tomahawk and long knife material and I would still feel that the point is more hassle than it's worth Just a personal preference thing based on my limited skillset.

(Feel the same about double edged knives and swords - just don't like the idea of a weapon with a live edge that can be pushed back at you)