selling your sole

ball ox

If "one" was to write a load of well produced crap (decent chart/pop) tracks with the intention of selling them on to a third party what would you guys suggest the best course of action would be?............ I've had a lot of spare time lately.....

PMI

Well produced crap

I would say go for it, I am....

Pure Britney, Pussycats etc..etc.. is my gig as I find it quite natural to do

With regards to moving it on, im sure you can work it out, there are alot of record companies / management companies that are looking and taking emails/demos for artistes even though they say they're not.

Concept Music in UK is one of them, they looked after upper street, lisa scott lee, andy scott lee etc.. and are into that pop thang....

Also listen to and watch the gameplay of the other teams

Jordan Sparks
PSD's
Kelly Clarkson
The Saturdays
Britney
Katie Perry
etc...

The List is endless at the moment and not all signed to Jive anymore

ball ox

will look into that alright,

I'm at the stage (like many others I'm sure) where I end up spending far too much time on overproducing some of my less credible tracks to the point where they would probably sound great on radio but are, in my mind, crap. I get a little obsessed with the technical end of things when a song ends up being drab but this usually results in a very pop/radio sound as a result of me trying to make up for the ****ness/cheeseyness of the musical content. I've had a lot of friends say "yeah its muck but its a lot like lady gaga/ting tings/generic chart sensation so am thinking "fu*k it" maybe someone can use it......

PaulBrewer

I've never met anyone sucessful in the Pop genre who wasn't as intense about their music as an 'Artist' is - it's not an area for the faint hearted, or half hearted.

I remember one songwriting session I worked on with Ronan Keating, where Simon Climie (Eric Clapton's recent producer and writer of ' I Knew You Were Waiting (For Me)' by George Michael and Aretha Franklin) flew in from the US en route to France to meet Ronan and John Reid who had recently written a No.1 with Westlife's 'Unbreakable' .

From the moment they arrived it was work, work, work - we stopped for 15 mins for soup!

They worked on two songs as I recall and completed demos of both by about 5 p.m. that evening when Climie and Reid headed off for the airport...

That's your competition in Pop.

Also if the stuff sounds like the current bunch ................ you're already too late.

dav nagle

Making money from making music is not selling your sole it's earning wedge that can go into REAL music for REAL artists. Personaly I like sitting on both sides of the fence, why? because I like recording, full stop. Of course I would rather record an artist as opposed to a hen party but money talks and the BS walks. Most people would laugh at the idea of recording a hen party but the woman that come into the studio are so frikin sexy.

There is so much to be learnt in my view from recording anything and everything. The guy who did the sound effects for Star Wars was probably looked upon as knob end before the film became a big hit but now he is reffered to as a 'genius'.. like I could listen to that light saber noise all day it's just sick.

Midi Irish ballads suck but by doing one one time (apologize for the personification) I learnt this...

Midi sucks if it is a piece recorded back in the 90's or 80's on some **** synth BUT with endless amount of work that composers have recreated via midi we can use today's modern synths and drum modules to bring the sounds up to date.

If you are good at making pop then go for it and release it and make it happen and be proud of yourself that you did something. Have you a link to an example please I would luv to hear some of your stuff?

PMI

If you listen to the gaga stuff its not the usual i love you, you love me ****e, its quirky and well done....

The prob is I actually take time to listen to all this stuff and all the new ones on the way, have you heard of Danity Kane? Cheri Denis? Day 26? New pop style rnb acts run by Diddy Gotta keep up with the jone's

Its all music at the end of the day and an open mind is the best one to have

Give it a go...

madtheory

Sole is on the end of your shoe

smcelhinney

madtheory wrote: »

Sole is on the end of your shoe

Yes, here was I looking for the fishmongering forum..


Are we up to early?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

hah, selling your soul

dont worry about it mate - the music business and the artists ( every last one of them )
sold its soul many times over long long ago .

thats what makes pop = pop

if you make music , and it sounds good , and is catchy - go for it .

if you want to keep your soul and your integrity - play and record jazz.

id rather have one popular pop record to my name than an album full of unheard dirges.

ICN

smcelhinney wrote: »

Yes, here was I looking for the fishmongering forum..


Are we up to early?

Congratulations!

You have just proven that anyone posting @ 07:41 is up too early.

ball ox

thanks for the opinions lads.
Paul, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I can think of plenty of Westlife/Boyzone tracks with plenty of well written melodies & symphony orchestras behind them but that's not really the direction I'm looking to go. I can accept that that would require a lot of commitment and..... tolerence.
What I'm getting at is the kind of stuff PMI has mentioned. Take for example Pussy Cat Dolls. The only song of theirs I can think of off hand is that "love machine" track. There can't be more than 4 chords in it, its got one guitar hook and a reliable chorus melody....... it's not as though Bacharach spent days thrashing it out on a piano for them, it's just something catchy & poppy that those sexy wimmins can prance around to. I know that I can certainly compete with those kind of tracks. I guess what I'm kind of unsure of is where to go with them. Do you approach these people with finished tracks including vocals & lyrics or just the music
can anybody think of any sites/communities where people actively seek musicians for such work? I assume it's probably a "who you know" business but surely there are a bunch of 18 yr old girls out there somewhere looking for someone to make their music so that the can try and top the charts? Why cant I find them?!!

Dav, I've nothing uploaded on account of my internet connection being ass but I'll post I link when I do.

old gregg

ball ox wrote: »

just something catchy & poppy that those sexy wimmins can prance around to.

crikey, now you've got me all stoked up and thinking of ditching the Ambient space music in favour of 'something a little more stringent'

dav nagle

ball ox wrote: »

thanks for the opinions lads.


Dav, I've nothing uploaded on account of my internet connection being ass but I'll post I link when I do.

Do man give us a listen get it up there I would luv to here your stuff! Anyway I just recorded a refugee asylum seeker for the luv of making some rap and I did it for free because I want some good productions under my belt. If something happens then something happen who knows but it's all about the luv surely no? We have to earn a living but whatever a track takes it takes money or no money. Take risks is all I am saying mate.

PaulBrewer

ball ox wrote: »

but that's not really the direction I'm looking to go. I can accept that that would require a lot of commitment and..... tolerence..

The exact direction is immaterial. The point I was making is that even the Top Guys slog....... and you only slog if you love it.

'Pop' as an afterthought has failed already. The competition is too Keen.

ball ox

PaulBrewer wrote: »

The exact direction is immaterial. The point I was making is that even the Top Guys slog....... and you only slog if you love it.

'Pop' as an afterthought has failed already. The competition is too Keen.

I know what your saying man but I'm not looking to be the next Pete Waterman. I slog at my own music and with a band, and I love it, but that's not what I'm trying to do here. All I'm looking to do is find some people who want music and give it to them. It would just be an entertaining side project that could potentially generate some revenue (granted, probably not much). Just trying different things as Dav is doing. I'm not looking to get Louis Walsh's phone number and try and pimp pop music to him, I'm aiming more at regular people who are trying to make something of themselves in the entertainment industry and cant afford to hire these professionals you're referring to. I'm just finding it difficult to locate said people but surely there is an agency/web site that provides such a service?...... that my direction. It's not always about the "hits".

PaulBrewer

ball ox wrote: »

I know what your saying man but I'm not looking to be the next Pete Waterman. I slog at my own music and with a band, and I love it, but that's not what I'm trying to do here. All I'm looking to do is find some people who want music and give it to them. It would just be an entertaining side project that could potentially generate some revenue (granted, probably not much). Just trying different things as Dav is doing. I'm not looking to get Louis Walsh's phone number and try and pimp pop music to him, I'm aiming more at regular people who are trying to make something of themselves in the entertainment industry and cant afford to hire these professionals you're referring to. I'm just finding it difficult to locate said people but surely there is an agency/web site that provides such a service?...... that my direction. It's not always about the "hits".

Fair enough !

Rockshamrover

ball ox wrote: »

I know what your saying man but I'm not looking to be the next Pete Waterman. I slog at my own music and with a band, and I love it, but that's not what I'm trying to do here. All I'm looking to do is find some people who want music and give it to them. It would just be an entertaining side project that could potentially generate some revenue (granted, probably not much). Just trying different things as Dav is doing. I'm not looking to get Louis Walsh's phone number and try and pimp pop music to him, I'm aiming more at regular people who are trying to make something of themselves in the entertainment industry and cant afford to hire these professionals you're referring to. I'm just finding it difficult to locate said people but surely there is an agency/web site that provides such a service?...... that my direction. It's not always about the "hits".

That sounds like a very good idea (the website to sell songs on) A kind of supermarket for original songs. People come along and choose the type of song they would like to buy. Artists get an outlet for their material without having to sell thousands of copies to make money or break even.

A kind of myhome for the music industry.

Actually I just thought of a good name for it in keeping with the thread title. Soultrader.com


I'm not aware of anything out there that does this at the moment.

ICN

Rockshamrover wrote: »

That sounds like a very good idea (the website to sell songs on) A kind of supermarket for original songs. People come along and choose the type of song they would like to buy. Artists get an outlet for their material without having to sell thousands of copies to make money or break even.

A kind of myhome for the music industry.

Actually I just thought of a good name for it in keeping with the thread title. Soultrader.com


I'm not aware of anything out there that does this at the moment.

There is one site.. cannot remember the name now.


It has a lot of people who have put up music for possible use in films / commercials / presentation videos etc..

I'm sure there is a "Jailbait" Pop section there somewhere too! Haha!


Fairly uncool site from what I can remember.

I think Record Companies would rather give money & trust their Artists to a proven Production Team, who have successful track record.

Would be no different to how you would spend your own money.

Rockshamrover

ICN wrote: »

There is one site.. cannot remember the name now.


It has a lot of people who have put up music for possible use in films / commercials / presentation videos etc..

I'm sure there is a "Jailbait" Pop section there somewhere too! Haha!


Fairly uncool site from what I can remember.

I think Record Companies would rather give money & trust their Artists to a proven Production Team, who have successful track record.

Would be no different to how you would spend your own money.

The record company/artiste would be shopping for songs not productions. A good song is a good song.

If they like it and think it's good enough, they will obviously use there own producers to redo it.

ICN

Rockshamrover wrote: »

The record company/artiste would be shopping for songs not productions. A good song is a good song.

If they like it and think it's good enough, they will obviously use there own producers to redo it.

Possibly..

But I think most of the Production Teams usually do the writing as well.

I'd be doubtful whether it would work. Just be another Myspace Music.. with 90% Rubbish.

Rockshamrover

ICN wrote: »

Possibly..

But I think most of the Production Teams usually do the writing as well.

I'd be doubtful whether it would work. Just be another Myspace Music.. with 90% Rubbish.

That figure is slightly out. I'd say it's 99% rubbish.

ICN

Rockshamrover wrote: »

That figure is slightly out. I'd say it's 99% rubbish.

LOL

I didnt want to be too negative!


Ah.. There's a good bit of decent stuff. But you have to find it. Thats the problem.


They should have a proper rating system so that you can locate the diamonds in the sh*te.

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

That sounds like a very good idea (the website to sell songs on) A kind of supermarket for original songs. People come along and choose the type of song they would like to buy. Artists get an outlet for their material without having to sell thousands of copies to make money or break even.

A kind of myhome for the music industry.

Actually I just thought of a good name for it in keeping with the thread title. Soultrader.com


I'm not aware of anything out there that does this at the moment.

That's what a publisher does, No?

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

The record company/artiste would be shopping for songs not productions. A good song is a good song.

If they like it and think it's good enough, they will obviously use there own producers to redo it.

Not necessarily.

In fact the norm in Pop is that there's no visible Demo process i.e. the first the Record Company hears is the finished product. That's part of what makes it so competitive too ...

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Not necessarily.

In fact the norm in Pop is that there's no visible Demo process i.e. the first the Record Company hears is the finished product. That's part of what makes it so competitive too ...

I didn't know that. When I were a lad they had A & R men. They came to see you play based on word of mouth. If they were interested they'd ask for a demo, get drunk and leave it behind.

How does it work now? How do the record companies find new acts?

Rockshamrover

ICN wrote: »

LOL

I didnt want to be too negative!


Ah.. There's a good bit of decent stuff. But you have to find it. Thats the problem.


They should have a proper rating system so that you can locate the diamonds in the sh*te.

I remember reading a while back about a computer program that could rate how successful a song would be using certain criteria (I don't know what the criteria was)

They could test the program by loading different songs into it. ABBA came out tops with their stuff. Not sure how Nick Cave did:D

I think it was used for purely pop music.

Does anyone remember this?

PaulBrewer

Rockshamrover wrote: »

I didn't know that. When I were a lad they had A & R men. They came to see you play based on word of mouth. If they were interested they'd ask for a demo, get drunk and leave it behind.

How does it work now? How do the record companies find new acts?

The Producer becomes the A+R ...