Medjugorje and The Mystic Founder

Papad · 27-07-2009 1:44pm #1

Was reading an article on the Independent about the priest who is responsible for making Medjugorje into what it is now. My thinking about these people who extol the virtues of such places is that since these appearances and miraculous occurrences is a reaffirmation of their faith, then why risk getting into the "Happy Place" by doing wrong (in the eyes of the church).

The priest in question was the "spiritual director" to six visionaries who claim that the Virgin Mary visited them nearly 40,000 times over 28 years.
The Vatican began investigated allegations that this particular priest was guilty of sexual immorality with a nun, which he then covered up.

He is also suspected of exaggerating stories of the Virgin Mary's appearance and was under formal investigation for alleged "dubious doctrine, the manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience".

More info at: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/shrine-priest-quits-over-sex-claim-1842027.html

Dades · 27-07-2009 7:25pm

Do with it what you will, fellas.

PDN · 27-07-2009 9:01pm

I used to have a neighbour who would throw rubbish over the garden fence. Now I get the same thing on the internet from Dades.

Michael G · 27-07-2009 10:12pm

I assume that this discussion does not start from the Ian O'Doherty view that all beliefs in the supernatural are equally ridiculous. If I'm right, may I go on to say that few Catholics, and certainly not the Pope or hardly any priests or religious whether Traditional or Vatican II types, think that there is anything supernatural happening in Medjugorje, though there is no harm done by having a lot of people go there and pray.

prinz · 28-07-2009 9:05am

Was there a question? I don't understand the point of the post tbh. Interesting to note that the Vatican investigated this issue, usually they get accused of not doing enough to investigate and complicity in covering up problems. Don't suppose there'll be anyone on to congratulate the Church's role here.

kelly1 · 28-07-2009 9:05am

Good to see this fraud getting more exposure.

Dades · 28-07-2009 9:31am

PDN wrote: »

I used to have a neighbour who would throw rubbish over the garden fence. Now I get the same thing on the internet from Dades.

If the junk mail has your address on it, it's going in your letterbox.

Papad · 28-07-2009 1:05pm

PDN wrote: »

I used to have a neighbour who would throw rubbish over the garden fence. Now I get the same thing on the internet from Dades.

Sorry about that. It was not intended to be dumped into Christianity. I posted it originally in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum for a specific reason, but the moderator there regarded it as spam. He is not the sharpest knife in the drawer so apologies for that. You can go ahead and lock it if you see fit.

Soul Winner · 28-07-2009 2:20pm

Papad wrote: »

Sorry about that. It was not intended to be dumped into Christianity. I posted it originally in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum for a specific reason, but the moderator there regarded it as spam. He is not the sharpest knife in the drawer so apologies for that. You can go ahead and lock it if you see fit.

Not sharpest knife in the drawer? Well I never. Dades are you going to let him away with that? :pac:

Dades · 28-07-2009 4:10pm

Papad wrote: »

I posted it originally in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum for a specific reason, but the moderator there regarded it as spam.

In the absence of a supposed specific reason, the moderator saw it as a post concerning an aspect of Christianity and moved it.

Soul Winner wrote: »

Not sharpest knife in the drawer? Well I never. Dades are you going to let him away with that? :pac:

Papad was banned earlier from A&A for an abusive reaction to the move, but this ain't my turf and frankly I could care less, SW.

Papad · 28-07-2009 4:28pm

Dades wrote: »

......., but this ain't my turf and frankly I could care less, SW.

But he still posts?

Soul Winner · 28-07-2009 4:38pm

Papad wrote: »

But he still posts?

That was just for little old me though

Splendour · 28-07-2009 5:25pm

Papad wrote: »

My thinking about these people who extol the virtues of such places is that since these appearances and miraculous occurrences is a reaffirmation of their faith, then why risk getting into the "Happy Place" by doing wrong (in the eyes of the church).

Why? Because he's human. We all do wrong.

Papad · 29-07-2009 12:37am

Splendour wrote: »

Why? Because he's human. We all do wrong.

I understand that. But what I can't figure out is if you were sure of an afterlife of eternal bless, why mess it up during your brief 70 years or so on earth? This priest was spiritual advisor to the six visionaries, which means he was privy to the reality of what was happening in Medjugorje. This sexual encounter with the nun tells me that either he didn't believe what the six were telling him or the whole thing was a hoax.

What was enlightening by some of the posters who responded was the fact that it might not be a universal view that there were miraculous (suppernatural) happenings in Medjugorje. I did not realize that this was the case. From my own perspective, 'sightings' like these lessens the creditability of Christianity.

And Michael G was right about the fact that there is no harm in people who go there and pray. I do not believe in the notion of God as a supernational being, but I am well aware of the spirituality that can occur in such a setting. And as this communal feeling of well-being is positive to humankind, so I've no problem with it.

Disclaimer: I didn't want to discuss this topic in this forum because I am sensitive to the Catholics' opinion on the matter.

Fanny Cradock · 29-07-2009 7:39am

Papad wrote: »

Sorry about that. It was not intended to be dumped into Christianity. I posted it originally in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum for a specific reason, but the moderator there regarded it as spam. He is not the sharpest knife in the drawer so apologies for that. You can go ahead and lock it if you see fit.

Dades comes across as an intelligent and fair minded chap. Really, this type of cross forum bitching is not on and it will get you a ban in future. You get a slap on the wrist this time around.

Papad wrote: »

Disclaimer: I didn't want to discuss this topic in this forum because I am sensitive to the Catholics' opinion on the matter.

As long as you conduct yourself in accordance with the charter I don't see why there should be any major problems. Feel free to post away on this matter.

prinz · 29-07-2009 8:23am

Papad wrote: »

I understand that. But what I can't figure out is if you were sure of an afterlife of eternal bless, why mess it up during your brief 70 years or so on earth? This priest was spiritual advisor to the six visionaries, which means he was privy to the reality of what was happening in Medjugorje. This sexual encounter with the nun tells me that either he didn't believe what the six were telling him or the whole thing was a hoax.

Not neccessarily. The Devil tried to tempt even Jesus himself. If it was so easy to resist the temptations laid out before you why would he have bothered - the only reason I can see is that the devil though being in human form Jesus might succumb to temptation? If it's possible Jesus could do it, why not anyone else? Remember people have risked and in some cases lost everything in this world; families, careers, reputations etc for a quick 'sexual encounter'. Many politicians spring to mind.

PDN · 29-07-2009 9:20am

prinz wrote: »

Not neccessarily. The Devil tried to tempt even Jesus himself. If it was so easy to resist the temptations laid out before you why would he have bothered - the only reason I can see is that the devil though being in human form Jesus might succumb to temptation? If it's possible Jesus could do it, why not anyone else? Remember people have risked and in some cases lost everything in this world; families, careers, reputations etc for a quick 'sexual encounter'. Many politicians spring to mind.

The human capacity for finding new ways to press the self-destruct button on their lives is pretty well unlimited.

prinz · 29-07-2009 10:01am

PDN wrote: »

The human capacity for finding new ways to press the self-destruct button on their lives is pretty well unlimited.

True that. Unfortunately.

panda100 · 29-07-2009 8:10pm

"The Franciscan was asked to leave the priesthood after the Vatican began to investigate allegations that he was guilty of sexual immorality with a nun, which he then covered up.

He was suspected of exaggerating stories of the Virgin Mary's appearance and was under formal investigation for alleged "dubious doctrine, the manipulation of consciences, suspect mysticism and disobedience".

Fr Vlasic refused to co-operate with the investigation and was banished to a monastery in L'Aquila, Italy, where he was forbidden to communicate with anyone, even lawyers, without his superior's permission"

Hmmm all sounds rather suspicious to me. I wouldn't be surprised If these 'allegations' were started from within Vatican walls to smear and discredit this priest.
From what I can remember about Fr Vlasic he wasn't even in Medjugorie when the apparitions started but sent by the Church to investigate them when the local parish priest was arrested?

I have never understood the church's refusal to acknowledge Medjugorie. It was not my cup of tea at all but people were celebrating mass,saying the rosary etc, so surely for the RC church this is a good thing?

Spiritoftheseventies · 02-08-2009 8:08pm

Yes was there two years ago and thought the locals were very detached from the whole thing. Didnt seem to plugging it in any real way.

sold · 03-08-2009 8:48am

I think that it is misleading to state in your headline that "The Mystic Founder " referred to Fr. Vlasic.
Fr. Vlasic is not and never was the "founder" of Medjugorje. In fact, he stopped being a prominent player a couple of decades ago.
If you are going to designate someone as "founder" of Medjugorje, it should be properly given to Fr. Jozo Zovko or Fr. Slavko Barbaric, RIP who took on central roles as spiritual mentors of Medjugorje in the early days. Fr. Vlasic left in the mid 1980's to do his own thing. He is old history.
Medjugorje will not rise or fall on account of one priest or visionary but on the testimonies of millions of pilgrims who have gone there and received the grace and mercy of God.

Spiritoftheseventies · 03-08-2009 9:39am

sold wrote: »

I think that it is misleading to state in your headline that "The Mystic Founder " referred to Fr. Vlasic.
Fr. Vlasic is not and never was the "founder" of Medjugorje. In fact, he stopped being a prominent player a couple of decades ago.
If you are going to designate someone as "founder" of Medjugorje, it should be properly given to Fr. Jozo Zovko or Fr. Slavko Barbaric, RIP who took on central roles as spiritual mentors of Medjugorje in the early days. Fr. Vlasic left in the mid 1980's to do his own thing. He is old history.
Medjugorje will not rise or fall on account of one priest or visionary but on the testimonies of millions of pilgrims who have gone there and received the grace and mercy of God.

I personally did not witness anything miraculous when i went out there but is probably more important is peoples right to believe. Faith is a strong thing. But after this I wont be travelling out there again. Bus service is not great either. Waited five hours to get a bus to next destination. Tourist information not great in the place.

kelly1 · 04-08-2009 9:55am

panda100 wrote: »

I have never understood the church's refusal to acknowledge Medjugorie. It was not my cup of tea at all but people were celebrating mass,saying the rosary etc, so surely for the RC church this is a good thing?

Unlike Lourdes and Fatima, Medjugorje is causing division in the Church. It fails the 2 main tests of authenticity - obedience to the bishop and contradiction of Church teachings.

Some critical info here:

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje1.htm
http://www.unitypublishing.com/newswire/finaldec.html
http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/

Medjugorje and The Mystic Founder

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