Fantasy fight-Foreman V Tyson?

cowzerp

Tyson V Foreman in a fantasy match when both where at there peak, 2 of the most powerful heavyweights to grace the squared circle, who would win and why?

Kess73

My gut feeling when I first saw the names on this thread was Tyson, but then I realised I was not giving much thought to George in the period of his career between 1971 and 1976.


Both versions of Foreman, the original surly destroyer from the first phase of his career and the smiling grill selling version from the 80's/90's, were very hard to put down and even harder to stop.


The man was only stopped once in a career of 76 fights, by Ali, and was only knocked down twice, by Ali and Young.

Over the course of both phases he fought some huge punchers, slick boxers, counter punchers, and in the later phase he often gave up more than a decade in age, and in a few cases close to two decades.


Now ever fighter he met was not top class, but he sure as hell did meet enough high class fighters in both careers for there to be no doubt about two things, his power, and his chin.

I have heard a few times comment being made on his stamina, but of his five losses, four went the distance, and he destroyed punchers like Frazier and Norton.


So after giving the whole thing some thought, I am changing my gut feeling to a knockout win for Foreman and one that would happen in the first five rounds.

cowzerp

I would also go with big george, i think it could be a quick ko tbh, possibly 1st 3 rounds

Tyson would try to get in close and be met with some viscious uppercuts from Foreman before he gets in close enough to land his own great shots, Foreman at peak had great footwork and a chin of legend, even as an old man! Its only a matter of wheter he'd get knocked out early or get a bad beating leaving him in a bad way, what he done to Frazier showed what big george could do, especially to shorter opponents.

Tyson like in any fight has a big KO threat and a great chin too and thats what makes this fight interesting..

Foreman had no stamina problems, this probably arises from the Ali fight where he basically lost due to fatigue, but he pushed to the limit for rounds thinking the fight was nearing an end not realising Ali was doing rope a dope.

f1dan

I got bored so I decided to simulate this on fight night round 4.

Round 1: Both men score well with hooks to the body

Round 2: Foreman stuns Tyson, only for Tyson to comeback and score a knockdown

Round 3: Foreman does well from the outside, stuns Tyson, Tyson comes back with some solid counter uppercuts

Round 4: Tyson stunned and cut over the left eye

Round 5: Both men trade power punches in the centre of the ring, good defence by Foreman towards the end of the round, Tyson showing a lot of damage around the eyes

Round 6: Foreman's solid defensive work allows him to land much more often

Round 7: Foreman stunned by a vicious uppercut, manages to hang on, stunned again at the end of the round after trading uppercuts

Round 8: Foreman slips a Tyson hook and floors him with a counter right hand. A tired Tyson gets up at the count of 7 only to fall over again and the referee waves it off

Foreman W KO8

Scores: 67-65 3 times, all in favour of Foreman

Rodgrigez

This is a much better fantasy match then Tyson V Frazier. Which I feel Tyson would win comfortably in the early rounds.

Im sorry Cowzer P but to even hint that Tyson could possibiliy go out the same way as Frazier is in my opinion is crazy talk. Maybe im biaste cuz I love Tyson always bein drawn to him. I think his whole life is fascinating im possibiliy his biggest fan in my opinion he could of had the greatest legacy in boxing. Tradegy really.

Here's how I see it! Both men were similiar in their prime in the sense they were both feared for their power, their fights never lasted more then a couple of rounds because of it. However I feel Tyson was very hard to hit, very elusive and Tyson threw alot of punches/combos and could go 12 rounds easy just rarley did. Foreman even said it himself ALI in that fight absorbed his punches he punched himself out. I feel Tyson would wear on Foreman and he'd punch himself out and Foreman would find it hard to catch Tyson cleanly and that would cancel his power out. I feel Tyson would struggle to knock Foreman out due to his granite like chin. I think Tyson would win on points. Split Decision....

The Davestator

Good match up.

Whilst I reallky Like tyson, it has to be pointed out that he didn't fight enough quality in his career and when he did, he came up short. its not his fault that he didnt have better opponents but he did fight a lot of useless cnuts!

Foreman fought a lot of quality and has the better record against quality so I'd go for a Foreman KO around round 6.

Rodgrigez

Tyson came up short against who, Lewis & Holyfield is it??? We are talking about the two fighters at their best mate. Tyson was far from his best against Holyfield or Lewis. Tyson was a write off anything after the Douglas fight and one or two fights before that so Devestator the comment Tyson never fought anyone and when he did he came up short is null and void mate.

If that was the case Foreman for that matter never fought anyone and when he did - ALI. Foreman lost. Not only lost but quit for 10 odd years

megadodge

This is an excellent matchup, where anything is really possible.

Both had massive power and intimidation was a large part of their game, so it would be interesting to see if the fact that each was facing a mirror image of himself would have any psychological effect.

While there wasn't much difference in power, in terms of chin Tyson's was definitely better. People here seem to forget the brilliant Lyle-Foreman fight. George was down very heavily twice in that one and shook numerous times and Lyle wasn't as heavy a puncher as Tyson. He showed great heart to come back, but was exhausted by the finish in round 5. Only problem was Lyle was even more exhausted. Stamina was definitely in short supply in George's 'first' career, so the longer it went the more I'd favour Tyson, who never looked gassed in his prime.

It comes down to whether George could get Tyson out of there early while not being KO'd himself. That's why it could well be as explosive a fight as any imaginable.

Without being majorly convinced, I think Tyson's better chin and faster hands could give him a KO in around 5 rounds, but.....

The Davestator

Rodgrigez wrote: »

Tyson came up short against who, Lewis & Holyfield is it??? We are talking about the two fighters at their best mate. Tyson was far from his best against Holyfield or Lewis. Tyson was a write off anything after the Douglas fight and one or two fights before that so Devestator the comment Tyson never fought anyone and when he did he came up short is null and void mate.

If that was the case Foreman for that matter never fought anyone and when he did - ALI. Foreman lost. Not only lost but quit for 10 odd years

I didn't say Tyson never fought anyone, I just reckon that Frazier, Norton etc. are better oppostion than trevor berbick, michael spinks and frank bruno.
Ali beat Foreman and he went away for years but he came back and win the world title at age 46 (i think)

I like Tyson but he came back much younger than foreman and got slapped around by Kevin Mc Bride!

eagle eye

The Davestator wrote: »

I didn't say Tyson never fought anyone, I just reckon that Frazier, Norton etc. are better oppostion than trevor berbick, michael spinks and frank bruno.
Ali beat Foreman and he went away for years but he came back and win the world title at age 46 (i think)

I like Tyson but he came back much younger than foreman and got slapped around by Kevin Mc Bride!

What about Holmes, Tucker, Ruddock, Tubbs and the first fight with Holyfield?
These were all serious opponents.

Now my take on this fight is that there is no way it goes beyond 3 rounds either way. Foreman liked to get his fights over quickly and so did Iron Mike. This fight could very well be over in one round most times as they both go for each other head on. I personally like Tyson's chances here, he is smaller but he is faster and gets off his puches quicker and I see him catching Foreman as he tries to land a haymaker.

Its Tyson for me all the way unless he gets caught and I don't see that happening in the early rounds as he was good at avoiding big shots.

cowzerp

Rodgrigez wrote: »

Tyson was far from his best against Holyfield or Lewis. Tyson was a write off anything after the Douglas fight and one or two fights before that so Devestator the comment Tyson never fought anyone and when he did he came up short is null and void mate.

I loved Tyson and followed his whole carreer and no it could have been diffrent if circumstances where different but lets get things straight, when he fought Evander, Evander was only back from a heart problem and more washed up than Tyson, i believe the result would have been the same if the fight happened when it was 1st meant to anyway.

nacho libre

cowzerp wrote: »

I loved Tyson and followed his whole carreer and no it could have been diffrent if circumstances where different but lets get things straight, when he fought Evander, Evander was only back from a heart problem and more washed up than Tyson, i believe the result would have been the same if the fight happened when it was 1st meant to anyway.

when was it first meant to happen?

The Davestator

before Tyson was jailed

nacho libre

I couldn't see Foreman beating Tyson in his prime. Foreman would have been physicially stronger than Tyson and more than capable of knocking Tyson out if he landed, but Tyson's foot work would have negated this threat. Tyson with his superior hand speed would eventually win this one by a mid round ko in my opinion.

Rodgrigez

I loved Tyson and followed his whole carreer and no it could have been diffrent if circumstances where different but lets get things straight, when he fought Evander, Evander was only back from a heart problem and more washed up than Tyson, i believe the result would have been the same if the fight happened when it was 1st meant to anyway.

Probably would have went Holyfields way back in 92' alright I dont disagree with that, but Tyson at his best was during Kevin Rooney's time think he was sacked 88' and this is when Tyson didn't train as hard, style changed a little, work rate dropped, throwing single shots not combos worked on Carl Williams and Bruno but I mean losing to Douglas C'MON. Tyson going to jail isnt where the problems started in the ring. Tyson when he beat Berbick or Thomas or Spinks would have spanked Holyfield.

I like Tyson but he came back much younger than foreman and got slapped around by Kevin Mc Bride!

That wasn't even a comeback mate, it was merely a paid day and was soul destroying to watch. Ya cant even compare the two. Watch Tyson's Post fight interview on that fight. Youtude it mate. Thats all that needs to be said on that issue

The Davestator

Rodgrigez wrote: »

Probably would have went Holyfields way back in 92' alright I dont disagree with that, but Tyson at his best was during Kevin Rooney's time think he was sacked 88' and this is when Tyson didn't train as hard, style changed a little, work rate dropped, throwing single shots not combos worked on Carl Williams and Bruno but I mean losing to Douglas C'MON. Tyson going to jail isnt where the problems started in the ring. Tyson when he beat Berbick or Thomas or Spinks would have spanked Holyfield.



That wasn't even a comeback mate, it was merely a paid day and was soul destroying to watch. Ya cant even compare the two. Watch Tyson's Post fight interview on that fight. Youtude it mate. Thats all that needs to be said on that issue

jaysus Rodgrigez, why dont you just give me a pat on the head and tell me to go out and play!
The great all knowing Rodgrigez has spoken, mod, close the topic!!

Tony Broke

cowzerp wrote: »

I would also go with big george, i think it could be a quick ko tbh, possibly 1st 3 rounds

Tyson would try to get in close and be met with some viscious uppercuts from Foreman before he gets in close enough to land his own great shots, Foreman at peak had great footwork and a chin of legend, even as an old man! Its only a matter of wheter he'd get knocked out early or get a bad beating leaving him in a bad way, what he done to Frazier showed what big george could do, especially to shorter opponents.

Tyson like in any fight has a big KO threat and a great chin too and thats what makes this fight interesting..

Foreman had no stamina problems, this probably arises from the Ali fight where he basically lost due to fatigue, but he pushed to the limit for rounds thinking the fight was nearing an end not realising Ali was doing rope a dope.

I always find the Frazier example a funny one, Tyson was like 20lbs heavier in his prime ( thats around the same as prime Foreman :eek: ) thats a division apart in power!

Prime Tyson (18-20) always got his power shots and combinations in on his opponent in the first round, do you really think that even prime Foreman after tasting those big punches would keep on coming? Name one fighter that kept coming after Tyson in his prime after the first round?

There arent too many people who want to hang with Tyson after feeling his early onslaught, they'd rather coast and hope to go the distance or try and pick him, Foreman would never do that.Holmes had a better chin than Foreman imo and look what Tyson did to him.Holmes was even favourite in the fight that never happenend between him and Foreman, so you have to give Tyson an excellent chance.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

This is an excellent matchup, where anything is really possible.

Both had massive power and intimidation was a large part of their game, so it would be interesting to see if the fact that each was facing a mirror image of himself would have any psychological effect.

While there wasn't much difference in power, in terms of chin Tyson's was definitely better. People here seem to forget the brilliant Lyle-Foreman fight. George was down very heavily twice in that one and shook numerous times and Lyle wasn't as heavy a puncher as Tyson. He showed great heart to come back, but was exhausted by the finish in round 5. Only problem was Lyle was even more exhausted. Stamina was definitely in short supply in George's 'first' career, so the longer it went the more I'd favour Tyson, who never looked gassed in his prime.

It comes down to whether George could get Tyson out of there early while not being KO'd himself. That's why it could well be as explosive a fight as any imaginable.

Without being majorly convinced, I think Tyson's better chin and faster hands could give him a KO in around 5 rounds, but.....

My view too. The key here is Tyson's chin and defense. I don't see George landing half as easy as he did with Frazier AND, I also see Mike landing clean and often and in bunches. This is a very hard fight, but Tyson's speed and angles and variation in power shots see him win this by KO.

Mike also had superior stamina, so at peak, Mike can go 12 and earn a points
win too

horsebox09

I'd say big george would win this.
tyson coming forward would play right into his hands.
similar outcome to the foreman-frazier fight,except i doubt tyson would get up as much as frazier did.
BUT if foreman doesn't him k.o in the first 6 rounds i think tyson would have a real chane,george never really trained for a 12-15 round fight.
would have been a great fight anyway!
by the way is it true that tyson once ducked foreman in the mid-late 80's?? ive heard that before,probably isnt true though

dlofnep

Oh god, it would be a war.

Tyson was more technical, but I think Foreman was more powerful.

I think Tyson might take him on the fact that he was a better boxer..

f1dan

Taken from an article by James Slater on eastside:

4: George Foreman Vs. Mike Tyson

When they should have fought: 1990.

Why the fight should have happened and what would have happened had it done so:

This fight that wasn't to be had had people talking in excited tones since 1988, a year or so into Foreman's surprising comeback. During this time, practically any issue of either Ring, KO or Boxing Monthly magazine you picked up had either an article about this prospective fight, or a letter or three sent in by fans talking about it. And when "Big "George starched Gerry Cooney in impressive fashion in early 1990, and then, the following month, "Iron" Mike lost his cloak of invincibility due to being put to sleep by James "Buster" Douglas, the fight was seen as a tough one to call. In short, everyone wanted to see it, and the fight would have made both men and all other people involved with it millions and millions of dollars. This monster of a fight would have been an EVENT. As one promoter who was doing business at the time put it when talking about this Dream Fight, "What fu***ng excitement!"

This one would have had a good shot at being short and sweet. A battle between two of heavyweight history's biggest bangers, Tyson-Foreman would also have been, as Ring magazine put it, a clash between the immovable object (Foreman) and the irresistible force (Tyson). Would old man George have been able to have timed one of Mike's rushes and clobbered him with a bomb as he came at him? Or would Tyson have snapped Foreman's head back with lightening fast combos? Or perhaps another scenario would have unfolded. What we know now about what Tyson was capable of doing when discouraged (quit, bite or foul some other way - basically lose heart) makes is possible that, had he hit Foreman with his best shots and not gotten rid of him, Mike may have looked for a way out. Remember, there have since been stories that have surfaced telling us how Mike was not in favour of fighting Foreman, telling Don King that he was not getting in the ring with "that animal."

My Pick: Foreman by mid-rounds KO.

It would have been hellish for Foreman in the first three rounds or so and, depending on who the referee was, a TKO win may well have been awarded to Tyson. If, however, a third man was appointed who was prepared to allow Foreman to take severe early-rounds punishment, Tyson would have ran out of gas and ran out of confidence. And we know what a rock for a head George had! Staggered a number of times and cut and swollen he would have been, but the phenomenally tough old warhorse who ruled his weight class in the 1970s would have taken his lumps, only to come though the pain and get Tyson out of there around the 7th or 8th round. Would Tyson have quit? Maybe. If not he'd have been knocked flat. In short, Tyson wanted nothing to do with Foreman.

The full article: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=20784&more=1

CorkMan

This would be one of the greatest, and brutal, matches of all time. Two juggernauts colliding, both having one punch KO power, but able to take a lot aswell.

Here are some of them hitting the heavybag.

FOREMAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiveytfg2F0

TYSON:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDy41yxwbb0&feature=video_response

KO RATES:

Foreman
76 wins, 68 KO's

Tyson
50 wins, 44 Ko's

Go to 2:30 of that Foreman vid to see a demonstration of his power, lifting a 214lb Joe Frazier off his feet.

cowzerp

Either could win but george had a great chin and was a bully, tyson did not do well against the bullying type of opponent and prefered to be the bully-no body bullied Big George!!

walshb

For pure natural strength, there was no fighter IMO like George. Will this see him beat a 1986 Tyson? No.

Look at the factors here. Both had tremendous chins. Mike's chin was really good, and his stamina was superior to George's.

Tyson threw faster shots with as much power. He threw better combinations and was a deadly finisher too. Lyle had George out of it, and had he been fitter and a better finisher, could well have done it. I just do not see George surviving once Mike nails him clean, and it is inevitable that Mike will land clean, and OFTEN!

In a strength contest George wins, but it's more about punching here and Mike punched better

The Kevin Rooney trained Tyson was a menace with not just physical tools, but serious mental
strength too.

f1dan

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055633129&highlight=foreman+tyson&page=1

walshb

f1dan wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055633129&highlight=foreman+tyson&page=1

Well spotted. I knew when I saw this thread that I had seen it before, but was too lazy to seek it out

CorkMan

IMO Foreman could take Tysons best shots, and after 1 or 2 clean shots from George Tyson would get discouraged.

Mike said Ruddock could punch like a mules kick, wait till he sees Foremans punch coming, Foreman to rule the ground.

section4

foreman was much bigger and much tougher and much more game, he never gave in. when tyson was knocked down by buster douglas he was scratching on the ground for his gumshield before he got up, if that had been foreman, ali or frazier in that position they would not even think about their gumshield they would just try and get back up. Foreaman had much more heart than tyson, and in abattle of wills there would only be one winner.

walshb

section4 wrote: »

foreman was much bigger and much tougher and much more game, he never gave in. when tyson was knocked down by buster douglas he was scratching on the ground for his gumshield before he got up, if that had been foreman, ali or frazier in that position they would not even think about their gumshield they would just try and get back up. Foreaman had much more heart than tyson, and in abattle of wills there would only be one winner.

And the fact taht Mike was taking serious punches for 10 rds had nothing to do with the state he was in at the time he was looking for that gumshiled?

If it was a case that he was that desperate after three or four tough rounds then I would agree, but that wasn't the case. That was a serious pasting he received for ten rds. It really showed us Tyson's chin and ability to take shots.

Also, one must rememember that this Tyson was not near as prepared physically and more importantly, mentally, as the 1986 version. Rooney and all the original cam were gone

section4

walshb wrote: »

And the fact taht Mike was taking serious punches for 10 rds had nothing to do with the state he was in at the time he was looking for that gumshiled?

If it was a case that he was that desperate after three or four tough rounds then I would agree, but that wasn't the case. That was a serious pasting he received for ten rds. It really showed us Tyson's chin and ability to take shots.

Also, one must rememember that this Tyson was not near as prepared physically and more importantly, mentally, as the 1986 version. Rooney and all the original cam were gone

buster douglas was not a very hard puncher, what top ten heavyweights did he stop, none i think. Tyson also basically gave up against evander holyfield when he bit his ear. he never had the same heart as Foreman, Ali, Frazier or even holmes I would say.

And I wonder if he would have beaten frazier, he certainly did not have the same heart and although he was bigger he did not throw as many punches, I remember reading that frazier had the punchrate of a welterweight, I know one thing if it came to heart frazier would win. And joe frazier left hook was a very good punch, delivered with a lop of speed and snap at a very akward angle. I cant see tyson keeping going the way frazier did against ali in the first fight or the third fight, or keep getting up agaiinst foreman in the first fight. Tyson was very good and had very fast hands but he did nt like getting hit too much.

walshb

section4 wrote: »

buster douglas was not a very hard puncher, what top ten heavyweights did he stop, none i think. Tyson also basically gave up against evander holyfield when he bit his ear. he never had the same heart as Foreman, Ali, Frazier or even holmes I would say.

.

James was 5-6 inches taller than Mike, had a ram rod jab and could certainly wallop. Okay, his KO record pre Tyson wasn't amazing, but the facts are that he nailed Mike with very heavy shots for ten rds. He's a heavyweight and hits like a heavyweight. As heavy as George? No. But, still damn heavy.

Anyway, discussion Tyson from that bout is irrelevant. He was at his peak age wise, but he was not the same mentally and physically prepared animal from 1986-1988. That is so clear from reading about him, and what one actually sees in Feb 1990. The peak Tyson was a couple of years prior to Tokyo

whaaames

Searching old Fantasy Fight threads and came across this, the same arguement we had in the pub about a year ago (to mixed opinions)

I think it would be a whopper fight, i see both of them being dropped, propably more than once a piece but i always said that the prime 1987 - 1989 Mike Tyson beats everyone, the Tyson that had his head screwed on, the tyson that seemed to train hard, had his anger under control and most importantly the tyson before he was completely deluded by Don King would have had too much determination and raw aggression for George over 12 rounds...

I see them both being completely shattered, cut up, bruised but the damage of a Tyson power punch finding its target repeatadly is more devestating than that of the same from George (Purely IMO)

Tyson wins it in the 10th by KO