***** Solar panel supplier

ned3

Has anyone had any dealings with ******* a company selling solar panels very cheaply. 30 tube panel + 300L cylinder + safety valves temp controls + pressure vessel and a control station complete with sensors = €1850-Grant €1119= €730 net. Is this possible it seems to good to be true.
Ned

edit: company names are not to be posted!!!
syd

apologies for only catching this now...

bertie1

I doubt that 30 tubes will heat the tank. Iss that supply only?

RVR

*Full disclosure - hands up, we sell panels*

Well going by the grant you'll get, the aperture area of the panels would be about 4m2. This might be ok but only if the efficiency of the panels is quite high. I assume that is supply only?

Is the tank 316 grade stainless? or is it a lower grade of 304 or duplex steel? Copper tank? Is it an enamelled tank that needs a new anode every year? Does the quote include glycol, piping, roof flashings, VAT?

A lot of suppliers could compete with that price using a lower quality tank and omitting essential items that your plumber would end up charging you for later (like piping, flashings, fittings etc)

But if it all adds up then you have got a pretty good price there! Just ask the right questions and make sure it isn't too good to be true.

Carlow52

AFAIK the quy behind this was in ***********.com who import most of their tubes from China so I suspect that he is now sourcing the kit directly and putting his own brand name on them rather than 北方话 官话

Caveat Emptor

ned3

€1850 is a supply only price. How much should it cost to install system if the panels are to be about twenty feet from the cylinder. Are there different quality tubes and panels available, how can you check the quality?

PeteHeat

Hi,

Disclosure: Like RVR I also sell solar systems.

A good quality 300 litre dual coil stainless steel cylinder will set you back around €1200.00 on its own.

Looking at the photos on the web site the system looks like a Chinese heat pipe, based on experience with similar systems depending on the number of people in the house most selling that type of system recommend 60 tubes with a 300 litre cylinder.

That said it may not be the same system they are offering you and you could be getting a bargain.

Installation costs depend on a lot more than the distance between the cylinder and the collector, perhaps you might want to get a local installer to carry out a survey and provide a quote, it removes all elements of doubt and guesswork.


Mods Please Note :

The company named do not appear to have a right of reply ?

edit: apologies, company names are not to be posted.
syd

.

Carlow52

ned3 wrote: »

€1850 is a supply only price. How much should it cost to install system if the panels are to be about twenty feet from the cylinder. Are there different quality tubes and panels available, how can you check the quality?

The grant will only be paid if installed by a SEI approved installer who may well baulk at installing kit that he is not comfortable with.

The way most quys on this forum check quality is that there is a list of kit tested by I believe either an Austrian or Swiss entity that then posts the results online. If it is not on the list then they wont use it.

I dont recall the link right now, hopefully someone will add it

sinnerboy

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/HARP_Database/Solar/

http://www.estif.org/solarkeymark/

quentingargan

Carlow52 wrote: »

The grant will only be paid if installed by a SEI approved installer who may well baulk at installing kit that he is not comfortable with.

The way most quys on this forum check quality is that there is a list of kit tested by I believe either an Austrian or Swiss entity that then posts the results online. If it is not on the list then they wont use it.

I dont recall the link right now, hopefully someone will add it

http://www.solarenergy.ch list quite a few panels which they have tested, but other companies such as Fraunhofer are also used, in which case you should be able to get the info from the supplier with similar data to EN12975 standards. Otherwise, steer clear. But if they are eligible for the grant, there should be certs.

The kit shown on the picture seems to be a 300L stainless cylinder, Resol pumpstation and typical Chinese 30 tube panel. There are cheaper 300L cylinders doing the rounds - none of them have a proper high surface area solar coil, and some of them are hernia-inducing glass lined ones.

There are 30 tube kits with copper cylinders for less than €1,500 on the market. Q

Carlow52

While the above can be applied to any installation I just want to tease the issue out for Thermal panels.
Using the sei list as provided by SB
http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/HARP_Database/Solar/

lets pick a panel and look at who tested it.
The list is
TUV
Arsenal Research
DIN Certo
ISFH
University of Stuttgart
ITW

The first point is can I verify the certificate's legitimacy by looking it up on the testers site?.
SEI make no attempt to provide a link in the same way as one can get an IAB link

The second point is that the panels don't seem to have any tamper-proof markings on them in the same way as Pilkington DG Glass panels have.
So what comfort can be given that what is specified is what is actually installed?

The 3rd point and the one that bothers me most is if I select for a client a particular installer who quotes for a rated panel and actually installs a substandard one, where does the liability lie?

quentingargan

Hi Carlow 52 - it gets even more complicated than this. The Harp database (to which you provide a link) is only interested in zero loss efficiency and heat loss coefficient. For most vaccum flask systems, Incident Angle Modifier (IAM) is also a factor. You can read about this issue here http://www.solarpanelsplus.com/solar-tracking/, but despite numerous attempts to get SEI to recognise this, they haven't allowed for it to be factored in on the Harp database.

In the case of one of our panels, the IAM goes to 144% at 60 degrees from noon, when the IAM for a flatplate would be about 86%.

This is a particular thorn in the side of vacuum flask vendors whose panels appear to under-perform - you will note the apparent difference between the first one on the Harp list with a zero loss efficiency of 56% (typical for a flask) and the next tube on the Harp list with an efficiency of 78%. The second one is of the type that has a flatplate within a tube, so it behaves like a flatplate. On paper this makes the second one look like a great panel, until you realise that IAM would change the figures by about 40%.

How do you know that what was installed was what you specified? I suppose you can't beat getting up on the roof. In our case, we emboss our logo on every single glass tube.

Alternatively, if you buy from a company that sells panels and ask them to appoint an installer, that would ensure that they install what they sell. You are right to ask, because most Chinese panels look identical and it is easy enough to install ones that haven't been tested. I am hearing anecdotal evidence that there is a lot of that going on these days....

Q

PeteHeat

Hi Quentin,

I can assure you there are some systems of very questionable quality for sale on the Irish market, the fact that they are made in China is not really relevant as the factory is only supplying the product ordered.

In one case I know of the manufacturer held the Solar Keymark however the product sold in Ireland by one company importing from them was one of the systems they keep for the home market in China.

As you pointed out it is difficult to tell the difference, I caught this one by the product code on the box, of course I was lucky because I had the full price and product list from the factory in China.

Sad to say it is a case of Caveat Emptor.

.