Firebird Oil Boiler Locking out!!

Bazsutto

Hi Folks,

Looking for some help or direction with my outdoor Firebird Kerosene boiler.

Basically, I returned from holiday and when I turned on the heating, the boiler fired up for a few mins and then locked itself out.

I left it for a while and reset it using the hidden button on the thermostat next to the boiler. The boiler fired up, but again tripped out after a min or so.

The only thing I notice is that the water pump seems very hot (Cant leave hand on it for more than 2 seconds). The water feels like it is been pumped around tho.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated?


Rgds and Thanks

Barry

L_gaucho

Bazsutto wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Looking for some help or direction with my outdoor Firebird Kerosene boiler.

Basically, I returned from holiday and when I turned on the heating, the boiler fired up for a few mins and then locked itself out.

I left it for a while and reset it using the hidden button on the thermostat next to the boiler. The boiler fired up, but again tripped out after a min or so.

The only thing I notice is that the water pump seems very hot (Cant leave hand on it for more than 2 seconds). The water feels like it is been pumped around tho.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated?


Rgds and Thanks

Barry

Sounds like an airlock. Its runs about 70-80 deg, so you can't put your hand on it.
Is it a Relio burner? (I think thats what firebird use).
There should be a bleed screw for getting out the air..
on the circ pump, you should hear it spinning

PS air in system could be because your out of fuel..did you leave heating on while away??

Bazsutto

Thanks for your quick response.

No, Didnt have heating on while i was away. There is definetly oil in the system. After I reset it, It fires up and burns the oil (Flame on in burner). but then for some reason it then trips. Not sure on the make. I will confirm when I get home this evenning.

Do you mean bleed the water system or the burner (wait for dripping oil)?

Thanks

Barry

L_gaucho

Bazsutto wrote: »

Thanks for your quick response.

No, Didnt have heating on while i was away. There is definetly oil in the system. After I reset it, It fires up and burns the oil (Flame on in burner). but then for some reason it then trips. Not sure on the make. I will confirm when I get home this evenning.

Do you mean bleed the water system or the burner (wait for dripping oil)?

Thanks

Barry

Bleed the burner oil supply of air. When you loosen the screw slightly, push the start button, you'll see little air bubbles as it primes. Can take a couple of runs of this to get out the air. Careful, there are also air mixture screws here , you don't want to touch that. (bleed screw is usually an allen key, 3mm I think.. follow the fuel line in). sometimes it will just bleed by gravity.

You could also have a blockage. (settled dirt in the tank)..blow back up the fuel line.
good luck. (PS not a plumber, just had similar issues with my own system)

Bazsutto

Thanks for the advice.

Not sure if it is my problem tho as I have had to bleed the boiler before but this seems different. Not Like a blockage or burning dry as when I pressed the reset button on the thermostat next to the boiler, It fires up straight away and burns for a few minutes

I will let you know If it is successfull.

Thanks again

Barry

Stratocaster

Bazsutto wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Looking for some help or direction with my outdoor Firebird Kerosene boiler.

Basically, I returned from holiday and when I turned on the heating, the boiler fired up for a few mins and then locked itself out.

I left it for a while and reset it using the hidden button on the thermostat next to the boiler. The boiler fired up, but again tripped out after a min or so.

The only thing I notice is that the water pump seems very hot (Cant leave hand on it for more than 2 seconds). The water feels like it is been pumped around tho.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated?


Rgds and Thanks

Barry

Your high limit stat is tripping out. The reason why that hidden button is hidden is to stop the average person from turning the boiler back on.

When a boiler is locked out on high limit there is a serious problem which requires the attention of a experienced person.

The boiler is locking out due to circulation problems, air could be trapped in the boilers heat exchanger or your circulation pump is on the way out.

If your would like to force some air out, turn the boiler stat down so the boiler is not heating up and try to move some water at low temp. To find out if your circulation pump is on the way out, add a small amount of heat on your boiler stat, after a few mins you should feel the return pipe to the boiler getting warm. If the return pipe does not heat up, its a sign of no circulation.

As I mentioned the high limit stat reset is hidden for a reason, if the boiler continues to lock out on high limit, call an experienced person.

Bazsutto

Thanks for your response.

This sounds more like my issue. I will keep in mind not to keep trying to restart the boiler. So far I have only tried it the once.

Should I also turn the circulation pump to Max (on setting number 2 of 3 at the moment) while trying the expirement?

Thanks for your help

Barry

Stratocaster

Bazsutto wrote: »

Thanks for your response.

This sounds more like my issue. I will keep in mind not to keep trying to restart the boiler. So far I have only tried it the once.

Should I also turn the circulation pump to Max (on setting number 2 of 3 at the moment) while trying the expirement?

Thanks for your help

Barry

The pump settings wont really be of much benefit, you could try to turn it up full, put boiler on no heat, make sure your heating filler is turned on.

You can also try to flush out air in your boiler by the safety valve but I would advise against. Old safety valves tend to have sealing issues once you crack them open.

If you feel your pump and the heat is excessive even at low temp water, its a good sign the pump motors acting up.

Again the high limit stat is hidden for the purpose I explained above so if you are experimenting make sure you have turned the stat way down.
Everything else should function the same but with out the heat.

Bazsutto

Thank you.

I will try this whin I get home this evening.
One thing I did notice that i already stated,.....
When I first found the issue, The heating had been left on for approx 40 mins. but there was no heat in house/water. Obviously system tripped out after just a few mins, but when i removed pannell from boiler, the circulation pump was red hot...

Rgds

Barry

Stratocaster

Bazsutto wrote: »

Thank you.

I will try this whin I get home this evening.
One thing I did notice that i already stated,.....
When I first found the issue, The heating had been left on for approx 40 mins. but there was no heat in house/water. Obviously system tripped out after just a few mins, but when i removed pannell from boiler, the circulation pump was red hot...

Rgds

Barry

I would put my money on the pump requiring replacement, you shouldn't really be suffering air lock problems because the system is well past commissioning, air lock is more associated with new systems and system alterations. If everything had been running fine before you went on holidays I cant see how air was introduced into the system.

Having the heating lying dormant for a week or two and then turning it back on could have put strain on the pump, the pump might have been on the way out and this has given it the final blow.

Money on the pump, but then again you never know.

Bazsutto

Tried what you said about turning down the thermostat and resetting the system. Same thing happened.

System ran for approx 5 mins, then tripped out. Water on the return was still cold while it was hot leaving the boiler.

Is there any way I can be sure its the pump and not an air lock?

Thanks

Barry

Stratocaster

Bazsutto wrote: »

Tried what you said about turning down the thermostat and resetting the system. Same thing happened.

System ran for approx 5 mins, then tripped out. Water on the return was still cold while it was hot leaving the boiler.

Is there any way I can be sure its the pump and not an air lock?

Thanks

Barry

Most oil boilers should be installed with an automatic air vent, you'll see it fit on top, close to where the safety valve is, its a brass cylinder with a small cap, the purpose of this is to let any air built up inside the boiler to escape by itself. This automatic air vent is capable of releasing any small air that might build up in a boiler through general use.

Unless you have made any alterations to pipe work etc the air vent should be capable of releasing any air as the system now stands.

As I mentioned you can try to open the safety valve located on top of the boiler, if you get some water its an indication the boilers full of water. There is the risk of damaging the safety seal should it be brittle and it may continue to weep, its up to you to try opening it.

Just after xmass I got a phone call from a person with a similar problem to yours, boiler locking out on high limit. I had to replace the pump due to no circulation.

I cant see how so much air could be introduced to your system to cause circulation problems as its been in use previously. It takes a good bit of air to stop circulation, even if a slight bit got into the system, all your on/off attempts should have moved it by now, again the air vent should be able to cope.

If I am commissioning a new oil boiler or after system alterations, should I experience circulation problems due to air, I will open the safety valve and let it flow until the water becomes clear with no signs of air, may take a few minutes, after removing all the air I will then bleed the circulating pump (large flatscrew or black nut) located on the pumps impeller face. After opening the pumps bleed I might experience some air and water, I will leave this open until I get a small flow of clear water, bleed tightened once happy. All the above is carried out with boiler on, heating filler open and little to no heat on the stat.

Again watch out on saftey and dont attempt any of the above unless you feel experenced enough to do so.

Bazsutto

Thanks again for the great advice.

I feel I should be able to give this a try and then atleast I can get in a plumber if it is an issue with the circulation pump.

Much appreciated,

Barry

Bazsutto

Boiler now working.....:)

Pump in working order. There was alot of air in the system. Only steam was coming out of the air vent when I turned the valve. It took nearly a minute before I got any water. Re-topped the system with water and up she came...

Hopefully its a long term fix.

Thanks for all the help Stratocaster and hope this helps ohers who have simila issues.

Rgds

Barry