Hurling Relegation Play-Offs

cruiserweight

The first round of the hurling relegation play-offs are scheduled for this weekend. This thread is for all discussion surrounding the games and also should they actually take place.

In relation to the games, Wexford have named their team. Banville being back in is a big boost.

Wexford SH v Clare: D Fitzhenry, M Travers, P Roche, K Rossiter, D Stamp, R Kehoe, C Kenny, PJ Nolan, D Lyng (Capt), H Kehoe, W Doran, S Doyle, D Redmond, S Banville, R Jacob.

In relation to whether or not the games should actually take place, this piece in the Indo is interesting. Basically because it was decided at congress there has to be a relegation, it would cause a major problem if the teams decided not to play these games. Let the fun commence

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/the-counties--v-croke-park-1835643.html

1 Clare, Wexford, Offaly and Antrim want the relegation games cancelled, allowing all four to remain the top flight. They would welcome the addition of Christy Ring Cup winners Carlow to the Liam McCarthy Cup tier, thereby extending the number of teams to 13 and the number in Leinster to eight next year.

2 They argue that it would have a devastating effect on hurling in the counties involved if they were relegated. It would also impact on either the Leinster or Munster championships if Offaly, Wexford or Clare were relegated.

3 They are querying why, if the rules were so clear-cut, the Central Competitions Control Committee deferred Round One of the relegation games by a week "pending clarification of the promotion/relegation issues" by the Management Committee. Surely, they say, that was an admission that a serious anomaly existed.

4 They are considering whether to take a joint case to the Disputes Resolution Authority (DRA) to hear all aspects of the dispute. Alternatively, they could play the relegation games with the county who is eventually scheduled to make the drop taking an individual case to the DRA.

1 The introduction of the new system for the Liam McCarthy Cup (Galway and Antrim in Leinster) was voted in by Special Congress last October. It was approved for three years, subject to promotion/relegation provisions (one down from McCarthy, one up from Ring). The GAA insist that while Galway and Antrim were allowed into Leinster, they would be removed from Leinster and the All-Ireland championship if they finished last in the relegation play-off.

2 It was also agreed at Special Congress that the bottom team in the McCarthy Cup tier would play off against the Ring Cup winners to decide placings for the following year. In practical terms, that equates into the bottom team from the Clare/Wexford/ Antrim/Offaly play-off facing Carlow (Ring Cup winners), similar to what happened in previous years.

3 Annual Congress passed a Westmeath motion last April proposing that the Ring Cup winners be automatically promoted to McCarthy level with the bottom team in McCarthy dropping down to Ring. That effectively cancelled the provisions of Item 2 (above).

4 No committee has the power to set aside a decision made by Annual Congress so while Clare/Wexford/Offaly/Antrim may be unhappy with what has transpired, nobody, including the powerful Management Committee or Central Council, has the authority to overturn a Congress decision

dotsflan

Do not care

I think the four teams should refuse to play, it benefits no one to get relegated!! Imagine leinster without offaly or wexford? or munster without clare??? madness.

cruiserweight

Do not care

I have added a poll about whether or not there should be relegation this year

soccymonster

No

dotsflan wrote: »

I think the four teams should refuse to play, it benefits no one to get relegated!! Imagine leinster without offaly or wexford? or munster without clare??? madness.

agree. They should refuse to play the games. Like seriously, are the GAA trying to stir up trouble? Coz they are doing a really good job at it. I clicked yes by accident so count me as a no :P

Imposter

If they refused to play the games it could happen that players, officials and county board members could get suspensions! Would be a silly route for the GAA to go down but...

dotsflan

Do not care

Imposter wrote: »

If they refused to play the games it could happen that players, officials and county board members could get suspensions! Would be a silly route for the GAA to go down but...

Imagine if they did do that??? it wouldnt just be cork on strike, the whole country would be up in arms!! Bad enough trying to relegate teams down to play a lower standard of hurling, but to suspend players from playing altogether would really show how much of a farce the gaa is!!

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

Was crazy to tell Antrim they could play in Leinster for three years without thinking it through. Obviously if you are there relegation play offs that just throws everything into the air.
The solution here is that the losers of relegation play off then play off against winners of second tier hurling championship. If second tier winners win that second play off game they deserve to be playing in Liam McCarthy championship

Imposter

bayviewclose wrote: »

Was crazy to tell Antrim they could play in Leinster for three years without thinking it through. Obviously if you are there relegation play offs that just throws everything into the air.
The solution here is that the losers of relegation play off then play off against winners of second tier hurling championship. If second tier winners win that second play off game they deserve to be playing in Liam McCarthy championship

That's not a good solution. A team playing in the lower tier have the disadvantage of not getting experience against the big boys that would stand to them for such a match.

eagle eye

Do not care

Its about time somebody in Croke Park got a clip on the back of the head and was told to wake up. This is a disgrace, a team who were promised Leinster Championship hurling are now likely to be relegated. What sort of stupidity is this?

Erin Go Brath

Do not care

The GAA need to scrap Championship relegation as it could be disastrous for any team that gets relegated plus we need all the teams we can get playing in the main Championship.

fikay

bayviewclose wrote: »

W
The solution here is that the losers of relegation play off then play off against winners of second tier hurling championship. If second tier winners win that second play off game they deserve to be playing in Liam McCarthy championship

tbh with regard to a relegation/promotion scenario this can be the only principal that is fair. I wouldn't rate either Offaly's or Antrim's contribution to the championship this year (and I'm a BIFFO), and imo Clare and Wexford preformances were only slightly better. However to dump one of these teams out of the SHC can only be counterproductive to the GAA's supposed aim of promoting the game as I think rather than having a positive effect in Carlow, you'll ensure an negitive impact on traditional hurling heartlands.
If a comitement has been made to Carlow this year, fair enough, let them up.
If, next year, the bottom of those 5 plus Laois maybe Dublin say, can't overcome the best of whats below there can't really be too much to complain about.

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

Re. If, next year, the bottom of those 5 plus Laois maybe Dublin say, can't overcome the best of whats below there can't really be too much to complain about.



what do you mean Dublin. We are in quarter finals and possibly in the semi after next weekend. Dont think we can be put together with teams you mention above. Had a very good run in league this year too. Thinks its a now a case of overcoming the big teams now and not the weaker teams.

cruiserweight

Do not care

bayviewclose wrote: »

what do you mean Dublin. We are in quarter finals and possibly in the semi after next weekend. Dont think we can be put together with teams you mention above. Had a very good run in league this year too. Thinks its a now a case of overcoming the big teams now and not the weaker teams.

Dublin are on the up now, yes, but the teams that are in the mix were in the same situation as Dublin not to long ago. Clare and Wexford were in the quarter finals last year, losing by 2 and 1 points respectively. In 2007 Clare were in the quarters and Wexford were in the semis.

Anyway, I do not believe that relegation will do any of these teams any good. Plus I think that promotion will help Carlow, so it would not be fair to keep them out. The question is what is a good solution?

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

cruiserweight wrote: »

Dublin are on the up now, yes, but the teams that are in the mix were in the same situation as Dublin not to long ago. Clare and Wexford were in the quarter finals last year, losing by 2 and 1 points respectively. In 2007 Clare were in the quarters and Wexford were in the semis.

Anyway, I do not believe that relegation will do any of these teams any good. Plus I think that promotion will help Carlow, so it would not be fair to keep them out. The question is what is a good solution?

Solution is to play Carlow off against losers of relegation play offs. Carlow still in Division Two if im right so doesnt seem right promoting them when they haven't played off against any of the bigger teams to prove themselves.
As for Dublin they deserve to be in top eight now given their league standing and good run in Leinster. Think they should have beaten Wexford last year in first game and are strong enought at under 21 level as well. At their strongest i would say in a long while.

cruiserweight

Do not care

bayviewclose wrote: »

As for Dublin they deserve to be in top eight now given their league standing and good run in Leinster. Think they should have beaten Wexford last year in first game and are strong enought at under 21 level as well. At their strongest i would say in a long while.

The point was not about Dublin specifically, but that teams who are in the latter stages one year can be involved in the relegation play-offs the next. Seems strange that of the 12 teams that started 10 are still involved, 4 fighting relegation and 6 still technically competing for the All-Ireland

premierstone

cruiserweight wrote: »

The point was not about Dublin specifically, but that teams who are in the latter stages one year can be involved in the relegation play-offs the next. Seems strange that of the 12 teams that started 10 are still involved, 4 fighting relegation and 6 still technically competing for the All-Ireland

This is the crux of the whole thing here really, this was decided at congress last year and I can guarantee all other counties just assumed ''oh right Antrim and Laois will battle that one'' but now that there is a possibility of one of the more traditional or established if you like counties involved everyone is up in arms. I would love to know how the Clare, Wexford and Offaly delegate voted on the proposal!

fikay

i was in croker for the dubs v kilkenny and so impressed, fair play to you and your summer is not over yet.
i was also in the Gaelic grounds in Limerick last year when offaly beat them. we wern't too far behind waterford in the next game but now face relegation.
I wasn't making any derogatory remarks about any one of the teams mentioned.

Do not care

As Fr.Ted once said....

''This competition is a sham...and a farce...and a.... sham''

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

premierstone wrote: »

This is the crux of the whole thing here really, this was decided at congress last year and I can guarantee all other counties just assumed ''oh right Antrim and Laois will battle that one'' but now that there is a possibility of one of the more traditional or established if you like counties involved everyone is up in arms. I would love to know how the Clare, Wexford and Offaly delegate voted on the proposal!

Look at four teams involved in relegation play offs. Three were playing division two last year. Other one got relegated from division one. Think if we ran senior championship with two groups of six with top four (top four from each group to go through to quarter finals) it would be better for everybody. the bottom two in each group then play off against each other, last team eliminated plays winner of second tier competition.

K-9

Do not care

So Special congress passed one law and the Annual Congress passed one totally contradicting it.

Okayyyyy!

Flukey

Do not care

As I've often said here, when it comes to the Rackard, Ring and McCarthy cups, it should be down to the individual counties themselves to decide which they want to compete in, not the GAA. If the GAA really want to promote Hurling, they should be in favour of doing it that way, rather than telling counties that they cannot play in a particular competition. The current GAA approach is cementing the elite position, not spreading the game.

The draw for the championship is normally done before Christmas. It would be easy enough to delay it a lot longer than that, even until after the league is over, and at that stage the counties could opt for which draw to go for. It would not be a major problem deciding on the practicalities and working on the logistics of the fixtures. As things stand, many of the main fixtures are pencilled in each year, so only a few really have to be worked on. As we know, although they do mess it up a bit, they are able to set times and venues for the qualifiers as little as 5 days in advance.

So there should be no problem doing the draw and having time to work on the logistics of the fixtures a few weeks in advance of the start of the championship. The draw could be done at the latter stages of the league, when teams have a better idea of where they think they are at. They could probably even declare their intentions earlier than that, so the draw could be done earlier.

Daysha

Do not care

A small part of me hopes Clare get relegated. Could you imagine the shít storm if a team who reached the Munster final last year were to to be relegated from Liam McCarthy and told they can't compete in Munster for a whole year!? The very idea of that happening should be enough to tell the GAA to wait the fcuk up and realise that the entire concept was flawed from the beginning, and it was entirely their making.

That's the thing though, if Clare, Wexford or even Offaly got relegated, I could see the GAA backpedaling on the decision just because they're "established" hurling counties. But if Antrim get relegated they'll kick up another fuss and nobody will listen to them.

spongeman

Apparently there is some appeal being heard tonight as to whether these matches will go ahead ?

I d'ont think Carlow should be denied a place in the main competition next year either.

Diabhal Beag

No

Leinster will be ****ed if Wexford and Offaly go down alright and Clare would flip **** if they get knocked out of Munster.


I accidently voted yes instead of no so I apologize

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Leinster will be ****ed if Wexford and Offaly go down alright and Clare would flip **** if they get knocked out of Munster.


I accidently voted yes instead of no so I apologize

And of course if Clare cant play in Munster if they lose in relegation play offs, gate receipts will take a big hit. Any Clare game in Munster championship always draws a big crowd. did anyone think this through properly.

jprender

Why can't Cork just do the decent thing and go on strike for the Championship next year ?

Problem solved

Morrisseeee

Do not care

Why aren't Cork in that relegation play-off ?

cruiserweight

Do not care

DRA throw out appeal from all 4 counties

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=115491

The GAA have confirmed that today's scheduled Liam MacCarthy relegation fixtures involving Antrim and Offaly, Clare and Wexford will proceed as planned following last night's DRA hearing.

A full statement will appear on the DRA website in due course outlining the outcome of last night's meeting.

Offaly, Antrim, Clare and Wexford called for the series to be scrapped as they believed relegation would do nothing for the promotion of hurling in their respective counties.

Antrim are due to face Offaly at Parnell Park and the losers will meet either Clare or Wexford, who are scheduled to play in Portlaoise, in a relegation final.

However, the competing counties argued late into the night at the DRA hearing in Dundalk that a return to the previous system should take place where promotion and relegation was decided by a single tie play-off tie.

Under that system, the Christy Ring Cup winners would meet the lowest ranked team in the McCarthy Cup to decide on their status for the following season. A further difficulty with this year's relegation system is Antrim's claim that they have been guaranteed a three-year period in the Leinster championship and Liam McCarthy, and are therefore immune from relegation.

However, the DRA ruled against the appeal of all four counties meaning that today's games go ahead and one of the four counties will not play Liam MacCarthy hurling in 2010.

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

wonder what sort of crowds Carlow will bring with them next year for Liam Mac. Still might be a wake up call for four teams involved. Sink or swim time.

soccymonster

No

Imagine if antrim beat offaly..
And clare beat wexford..
The relegation 'final' would be a dogfight between offaly and wexford!

EDIT: well offaly trashed antrim. Guess ya cant really see any team but antrim being relegated now.

cruiserweight

Do not care

Wexford just got a goal in their game and now are losing by 5 points with 7 minutes to go

conf101

Following a meeting of the Co. Board Officials from Wexford, Clare, Antrim and Offaly with the DRA last night the following has been claried.

The motion passed at the 2009 Congress stating that the losers of the relegation play-off in the Liam McCarthy Cup would be automatically relegated to the Christy Ring Cup has been ruled out of order. The four teams will play their games today Sat. 25th July as scheduled with the two losers playing next weekend. No team will be relegated at that stage but it was agreed that a Special Congress will be held later in the year to determine the status of teams for the 2010 championship.

got this from another forum so can't vouch for it's authenticity!

cruiserweight

Do not care

Clare beat Wexford 2-24 to 2-18. Wexford and Antrim will be in the relegation final play off

Daysha

Do not care

Just gets bad to worse for Wexford doesn't it? Another year in division 2, two very disappointing defeats to Dublin and Limerick followed by a 6 point defeat to a team that before today hadn't won a single game all year!

Morrisseeee

Do not care

Yep, the Intermediates lost by a point to KK, and then the Minors lost in extra time (by a point) to Tipp today aswell. :mad:

I'd imagine it'll be Fitz's last game, at least he scored a penalty !!

MickTipp

Do not care

Antrim will be strong favourites to get relegated now!!

Spiritoftheseventies

Do not care

MickTipp wrote: »

Antrim will be strong favourites to get relegated now!!

would have thought Antrim's resolve will be stronger. Probably feel as if promises were reneged on.

Stevecw

13 team championship next year, with these relegation games pointless according to BBC NI site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8168150.stm

Saffrons 'saved' by DRA verdict

Offaly hammered Antrim 1-28 to 0-13 in Saturday's All-Ireland Hurling relegation play-off but the match had apparently been rendered meaningless.

BBC Sport understands that the DRA directed in the early hours of Saturday that there should be no relegation from this season's Liam McCarthy Cup.

This followed appeals from the counties involved in Saturday's play-offs.

The DRA is believed to have ruled that Ring Cup winners Carlow be promoted into a 13-team Liam McCarthy Cup.

Next year's Congress will now be asked to ratify the DRA's late night ruling which came after the counties successfully argued against relegation taking place this year on technical grounds.

The GAA subsequently released a brief statement on Saturday morning saying that the play-offs would go ahead but with no further detail.

However, the Antrim and Offaly countyboards became aware of the DRA verdict on Saturday morning and more than one official described the game going ahead as a "farce".

With the Saffrons still apparently scheduled to play another relegation game against either Clare or Wexford next weekend, the Antrim board expects the two matches to cost the county around £7,000.

The Saffrons, Offaly, Clare and Wexford submitted an appeal calling for Saturday's two matches to be halted because of the relegation controversy.

The Saffrons believed that they were promised three seasons in the Leinster Championship at last year's Special Congress.

All four counties attended the DRA meeting in Dundalk and the gathering didn't break up until 0230 BST on Saturday morning.

Events off the field totally overshadowed the match.

Diabhal Beag

No

I hope this is the kick up the hole that Wexford need. They have been resting on their abilities to beat the Laois and Offaly teams to get anywhere. They are the worst 'good' hurling team in the country and need to improve for next season. I expect them to beat Antrim easily though.

allthedoyles

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I hope this is the kick up the hole that Wexford need. .

But what can wexford do..........they have tried different managers - tried differeent players ..............are trying to encourage under-age up to senior ...........

Could it be that the larger ball is taking over in wexford , and not the gaelic variety .

cruiserweight

Do not care

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I hope this is the kick up the hole that Wexford need. They have been resting on their abilities to beat the Laois and Offaly teams to get anywhere. They are the worst 'good' hurling team in the country and need to improve for next season.

With your vast knowledge of hurling in Wexford being so obvious, who exactly do you think needs this kick up the hole? The players? The management? The county board? BTW who is on your list of "good" hurling teams?

This is the same squad of players that were within a point of an All-Ireland semi final last year and in an All-Ireland semi final the year before, beating more teams than Laois or Offaly. Had it not been for the huge list of injuries this year they could quite easily have beaten either Limerick or Dublin and then it is a different year. I am not saying that things don't need to be changes, a lot of things need to be changed, but saying this is "the kick in the hole they need" is a bit to simplistic

Chord

Do not care

Wexford hasn't had a good hurling team since 1956, and yes I'm from Wexford. Don't know what the hell is going on. But I'll say this the people over the local clubs have a lot to do with it. People are being turned away from playing the game down here. The policy is WHO you are and WHERE your from. Not how good a hurler you are.

I don't know why Carlow want to even bother coming up, they'll be bet out the gate in every match.

Diabhal Beag

No

Motivation is the key to improvement. Teams need to have something to aim for that are within the realms of possibility. I'm not saying that they haven't been trying hard enough but they have been the only team in Leinster that could hold Killkenny to a few points. Only with the rise of Dublin, the introduction of Galway and Antrim has their status come into challenge.

We see with the footballers of Wicklow and Kildare that they had the motivation instilled in them by O'Dwyer and McGeeney respectively. They have already exceeded expectations and made their challenge felt.

I'm not trying to be unfair because the Galway footballers are the same way this year. I'm just pointing out that Wexford could come out a different side after the Antrim match and cause a few shocks next year.

derealbadger

No

In modern GAA it is very hard for countys to be dual status[hurling and football] over a sustained period i think only dublin cork and galway have the size or population for it in a county like wexford you are competing for the same players in the same areas for both forms of the game where in galway and cork they are played in different areas of the county in galway east and south they hardly know what a football looks like and in galway west and north they think hurls are for rounding up cattle

Stevecw

Chord wrote: »

Wexford hasn't had a good hurling team since 1956, and yes I'm from Wexford. Don't know what the hell is going on. But I'll say this the people over the local clubs have a lot to do with it. People are being turned away from playing the game down here. The policy is WHO you are and WHERE your from. Not how good a hurler you are.

I don't know why Carlow want to even bother coming up, they'll be bet out the gate in every match.

Really Chord?? You all knowing expert it seems. :rolleyes:
Laois or Antrim would beat us "out the gate" would they really???

Check out league this year. Carlow beat Antrim, and finished ahead of Laois in Div 2.
Carlow are well capable of beating either of those 2 next year, and will give Clare or Offaly a good game too.
A lot of this young Carlow side beat Wexford at minor in 2006 on our way to Leinster minor final.
We had 7 u-21s on our side that won CR cup...so we will only get better!
And the statement u made is total bullsh!t.

Chord

Do not care

Stevecw wrote: »

Really Chord?? You all knowing expert it seems. :rolleyes:
Laois or Antrim would beat us "out the gate" would they really???

Check out league this year. Carlow beat Antrim, and finished ahead of Laois in Div 2.
Carlow are well capable of beating either of those 2 next year, and will give Clare or Offaly a good game too.
A lot of this young Carlow side beat Wexford at minor in 2006 on our way to Leinster minor final.
We had 7 u-21s on our side that won CR cup...so we will only get better!
And the statement u made is total bullsh!t.

You might beat Laois or Antrim. But you'll never beat the likes of Wexford, Offaly, Dublin, Kilkenny you're a long way behind the other teams in Leinster. Carlow is a football county and hurling will never be the big draw up there. My statement is true maybe in time you'll improve, but I don't think you'll ever be contenders for Leinster or All Ireland honours. Not in my life time anyway, and I'm only 16 and a half.

Stevecw

Chord wrote: »

You might beat Laois or Antrim. But you'll never beat the likes of Wexford, Offaly, Dublin, Kilkenny you're a long way behind the other teams in Leinster. Carlow is a football county and hurling will never be the big draw up there. My statement is true maybe in time you'll improve, but I don't think you'll ever be contenders for Leinster or All Ireland honours. Not in my life time anyway, and I'm only 16 and a half.

No, your statement was "don't know why Carlow want to even bother coming up, they'll be bet out the gate in every match"
In your 1st sentence you prove your own statement to be false!!

So we might beat Laois or Antrim...but still we'd be bet out gate in every match??? Makes no sense at all.
What if we draw Laois in leinster...we could easily win. Same if we got Antrim!

I agree we are a long way behind most counties in Leinster, but then again only 2 years ago we drew with Dublin...so we are behind but we are closing the gap especially on Wexford and Offaly.

Yes you are probably right that football does rule in 90% of Carlow, but club football rules...never county team sadly.
Hurlers are our only co team who actually get a good response from players, and they are converting a lot of people who would only follow football to the hurling side. A bit of success does wonders.

And again your last sentence may be true that we won't contend for Leinster or AI anytime soon, but i can safely say neither will your Wexford.
We want to make ourselves a solid top tier outfit over the next year or 2. And get our way up to 9th or 10th best team. Battling with Wexford, Clare and Laois for that spot!