Holland??

JamMasterG

Just looking for some info on Holland.

Considering moving there maybe after Christmas.
As regards the economic situation, I read on some website that unemployment in europe is lowest in the netherlands, i'm wondering how easy or difficult it is to obtain casual work?

Amsterdam being the capitol would probably be where i'm headed but was also looking at some towns just south of Amsterdam, namely Breda and Leiden.
I don't know would anyone have have knowledge of these but i'm just curious, with them being smaller towns away from the capitol, perhaps with less immigration, the chances of employment are better there?

Also any is it an expensive place to live? Accomodation and food and so on.
Cheers

denhaagenite

It is possible to work in Amsterdam but live in the Hague, Leiden, Delft or even Rotterdam because the trains are great, but unfortunately it is very expensive to live in all of these places.

If you plan on working in a bar or restaurant, don't count on making alot of money. The taxes are higher, you are legally required to have health insurance which is more expensive than at home, rent is higher etc.

You might be better off trying the north east of the country where it's cheaper, but you will probably need to learn a little bit of dutch before you go!

Good luck!

mjg

I lived in Amsterdam for three years, a number of years ago and I've been back to visit friends a few times. There is a huge ex-pat group from here and Britan that look out for other ex-pats in terms of jobs, accomodation etc.

When I lived there, 80% of people stayed for an average of 6 months so there were continually jobs/flats etc. once you kept your ear to the grapevine. It wasn't just jobs in Amsterdam either, all over Holland fruit picking for example and Germany, Belgium etc. would come up for the lads involved in construction.

It was great craic, I never had a problem with jobs, sometimes with accomodation, but never any big problems. It's not the place to go if you're saving for a mortgage or something though.

murfie

I lived in Groningen for a short time, great city. You wont have trouble with language, every dutch speaks english. Its a universtiy city so plenty of things going on, plenty of bars for work if thats what you are looking at, 2 or 3 irish bars and of course its got its red light area!

Affable

Hmmm can't give much advice. But Amsterdam is overrated IMO. Rotterdam is great and underrated. Great bars, restaraunts, parks, sports transport etc. It's wicked.

craichoe

Affable wrote: »

Hmmm can't give much advice. But Amsterdam is overrated IMO. Rotterdam is great and underrated. Great bars, restaraunts, parks, sports transport etc. It's wicked.

Rotterdam is a f*cking dump to live in, everyone i know expat wise lives there for 6 months and then moves to Delft or The Hague, its OK to visit. I live just up the Road in The Hague.

Amsterdam is overrated and expensive.

Taxes are indeed higher, if your applying for a skilled job before you get here you can get the "30% Regeling" which means you get 30% of your wages tax free for 10 years.

More info here:
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/variabel/buitenland/en/private_taxpayers/private_taxpayers-108.html#P1178_138923

Health insurance is mandatory and runs at about 1100 a year.

Public transport is great, you can get an NS Voordeeluren card to get 40% of the trains.

Info here:
http://www.ns.nl/cs/Satellite/travellers/arrange-buy/off-peak-discount-pass?packedargs=language%3Den


If you live in Eindhoven also you have the cheapy flights with ryanair. costing us 60 euros for to of use to go home in September for the weekend Eindhoven has a huge expat community of techies.

All bonded estate agents all over the Netherlands are on Funda:

http://www.funda.nl

JamMasterG

Thanks all for that info.
What I've gathered so far is that Amsterdam and pretty much Holland is an expensive place to live?
Public transport is very good?
And there are casual jobs to be had but I probably won't make alot of money?

Just couple of other questions.
Around amsterdam can anyone tell me names of area's that would be known as cheaper places to live. Every city has its cheap areas right?

Anyone know how I can get in touch with these expat groups that help each other with work etc?

Finally, are there many swimming pools/fitness centres around amsterdam? Anyone know the names or locations of them?

Thank you kindly

P.S. Oh yeah, and can one get by reasonably well not knowing how to speak Dutch??

denhaagenite

In the ranstad it is more important to speak English really, but I think you're looking at this the wrong way- there are no cheap areas to live in Amsterdam or Leiden or the Hague etc. Also I've never come across an expat group who will find you a job, maybe they'll let you know if there are vacancies in their offices but I would go ahead and search for a job ad accomodation first. Look at www.funda.nl and you'll know what to expect then. If you're really sure about working here you have to get yourself an address and a bank account asap, then go to the tax office because you won't even be taken on by a recruitment agent without a bsn (social security) number.
Sports clubs and gyms are also astronomical, I use my local swimming pool but when I move I'm going to join something private as the hours are rubbish for adults and kids are allowed to do whatever they want!
Think about it very carefully, you may be better off working at seasonal holiday places- friend of mine does sun during the summer and snow during the winter!!

inforfun

craichoe wrote: »

Rotterdam is a f*cking dump to live in, everyone i know expat wise lives there for 6 months and then moves to Delft or The Hague, its OK to visit. I live just up the Road in The Hague.

You obviously dont know Rotterdam. Like all cities it has its bad neighbourhoods but to call the entire city a dump is wrong.
I know, i was born and raised there.

OP
Rent can be cheap in Holland but the trouble is you have to be registered first. Then you ll end up on a waiting list, certainly in the bigger cities so you will not be offered an affordable place very quick. Could take years in some places.
If you have to depend on renting from private companies/landlords you ll be paying a lot. And yuo ll end up most likely in the ****e neighbourhoods. Not as bad as the suburbs of Paris yet, but getting there.

Low unemployment in Holland? For all i know they are creative with the figures there. 100's of thousands of people were off loaded to another form of social welfare a few years ago. They are so called unfit to work.
Call it creative bookkeeping by the Dutch government.
Result of this is that tax pressure is high in Holland. Count on missing 40/50 % of you salary after tax.

I dont know what you are thinking about as it comes to work, what kind of job you are looking for but if i can give you any advise, dont move there without any reasonable outlook on a job first.

Any info i can help you with, dont hesitate to ask.
Good luck with your decision.

JamMasterG

inforfun wrote: »

You obviously dont know Rotterdam. Like all cities it has its bad neighbourhoods but to call the entire city a dump is wrong.
I know, i was born and raised there.

OP
Rent can be cheap in Holland but the trouble is you have to be registered first. Then you ll end up on a waiting list, certainly in the bigger cities so you will not be offered an affordable place very quick. Could take years in some places.
If you have to depend on renting from private companies/landlords you ll be paying a lot. And yuo ll end up most likely in the ****e neighbourhoods. Not as bad as the suburbs of Paris yet, but getting there.

Low unemployment in Holland? For all i know they are creative with the figures there. 100's of thousands of people were off loaded to another form of social welfare a few years ago. They are so called unfit to work.
Call it creative bookkeeping by the Dutch government.
Result of this is that tax pressure is high in Holland. Count on missing 40/50 % of you salary after tax.

I dont know what you are thinking about as it comes to work, what kind of job you are looking for but if i can give you any advise, dont move there without any reasonable outlook on a job first.

Any info i can help you with, dont hesitate to ask.
Good luck with your decision.

In terms of a job I was thinking something probably unskilled, postie, waste collection, security, something along those lines. I was asking after the location of swimming pools as I did a little life-guarding before, thought this may be an option.
The way I see it though, these are not the types of jobs one can really secure before getting there?
I'm not after big money, just enough to pay the rent, feed myself and maybe a little more for entertainment etc.
Are there any websites specific to holland that advertise for these types of jobs?

In terms of accommodation, i'm not really clear on that? Feedback i'm getting here suggests the setup is really different to, say, Dublin.
So there's no, ring up the landlord, have a look and agree to pay 120euro a week, that type of thing?
What kind of prices would I be looking at for a reasonable place?
I had a look on that Funda website, but I can't understand a word, its all in Dutch.

denhaagenite

JamMasterG wrote: »

In terms of a job I was thinking something probably unskilled, postie, waste collection, security, something along those lines. I was asking after the location of swimming pools as I did a little life-guarding before, thought this may be an option.
The way I see it though, these are not the types of jobs one can really secure before getting there?

All of these positions would require a fluent level of dutch. I think you need to get a little bit realistic about your approach. Either use whatever education you have to secure a higher paying position or save in Ireland for a couple of months before you go so that low wages wont affect you as much.

If you are planning on moving to holland the first four steps are:

Find a house
Get your BSN (Social Security Number) from the Belastingdienst (Tax Office)
Get a bank account
Get a job

I will stress again that health insurance is mandatory and costs about 1200 a year. I know people who have been stung for four years back payments aswell so it's unlikely you will get away with not having it.

And as a previous poster said, taxes are quite high, and the dutch government also hold back a percentage of your wages every month to tax and give back to you as "holiday money" once a year. That is a massive joke.

If it's a laugh you're looking for (although I suspect since it's Holland and not anywhere else...) look somewhere else. As an Irish person used to wages higher than anywhere else in Europe and taxes lower than anywhere else in Europe it is extremely difficult to adjust.

denhaagenite

JamMasterG wrote: »

I had a look on that Funda website, but I can't understand a word, its all in Dutch.

By the way, I don't fancy your chances of living in Holland at all if you can't be bothered to stick something into google translate

Have you actually researched this at all or are you just asking on boards? You need to look at the expat message boards, expat employment agencies etc etc. And if you don't understand something, look it up- that's how we undutchables manage out here.

Honestly, i wish you the best of luck but it requires alot of thought and preparation. Don't do it lightly if you're making sacrifices at home to come over here.

miss.c

hi im living and working in belgium at the minute, u are right, the economic situation is not the same as at home in ireland but... alot of things are different here!
Make sure its what u really want, its not just a job its a lifestyle change too

JamMasterG

Could you give a little insight into how you found the economic situation to be? I know Ireland is really up in the air at the moment. I assume its not that bad. Did you find work fairly easily?
And do you mind me asking are you in skilled employment or casual work?
Cheers

miss.c

My employer from Ireland actually sent me out here to work, im an electrician.
I really tho do get the impression that there is no real slump here employment wise, belgium is very small with a big population and there are no shortages of industrial work here.
If you are just looking for part time work I can imagine there would be much prob.

JamMasterG

craichoe wrote: »

Taxes are indeed higher, if your applying for a skilled job before you get here you can get the "30% Regeling" which means you get 30% of your wages tax free for 10 years.

More info here:
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/variabel/buitenland/en/private_taxpayers/private_taxpayers-108.html#P1178_138923

Can anyone shed a bit more light on this regeling?? I checked out that link but it doesn't give any information on where i can apply or what I need to make the application.

Do I need to apply before I enter Europe or Holland or can I do it once I get there but before I start working?
Cheers

denhaagenite

You can only get the 30% ruling if:

a) You have a job, you must apply through your employer and

b) You have a skill that is difficult to acquire in the Netherlands ie a foreign knowledge

pickarooney

In my experience, the lower the qualifications necessary for the job, the more difficult it will be to get, particularly if you don't speak Dutch. When I moved there in 2001, I had a well-paid job lined up in Delft, qualified under the 30% ruling (actually 35% back then, IIRC) and was just missing that vital element - a place to live. The company went bust the day before I was due to start so I ended up falling back on plan B, a lower-paid job in programming in Eindhoven.

I didn't speak, or need to speak any Dutch for this as the owner was English and the 90% Dutch staff spoke English in all meetings and inter-office communcation - even at lunch-time to accommodate the foreigners. It was an absolutely boring job though and the mentality of the people there was impossible to get used to. That place closed down too and I eventually did a few manual jobs before call-centering and then back into IT. The first and only requirements for the manual jobs were conversational Dutch and a thick skin. Between jobs I was on the list to be a part-time binman, but there were hundreds of people registered for it and I never got called.

Accommodation was imposible to find in the beginning. If you weren't on a list for at least 5 years you couldn't get rent-controlled accommodation (a lot of people register their children for this list at birth) and renting privately was an absolute nightmare - the letting agencies dealt almost exclusively with ex-pats and pulled every trick in the book to shaft us. We eventually had to get a lawyer to sort that out.

When we did get a place to live, it was a fantastic house for really low rent (€300 a month for a 3-bedroom terraced house with garden) in a mediocre part of town, but I have to stress that we only got this place thanks to an extremely fortunate series of coincidences; if not, we'd still be on that list.

Eindhoven, though, is ugly and dull. Very conveniently laid out, easily accessible and 'livable' but the biggest attractions are the train station and airport. It's a comparatively cheap place to live and even the much lower salaries than in Ireland go a lot further.

In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it.

Tuesday_Girl

You can find a good overview of the 30% ruling here:

http://www.expatica.com/nl/finance_business/tax/The-30_-ruling_-Are-you-eligible__11398.html

craichoe

JamMasterG wrote: »

Can anyone shed a bit more light on this regeling?? I checked out that link but it doesn't give any information on where i can apply or what I need to make the application.

Do I need to apply before I enter Europe or Holland or can I do it once I get there but before I start working?
Cheers

Gain agreement with your employer before you accept the job, its up to them to apply for it, it is possible to apply for it yourself but is not preferable.

JamMasterG

pickarooney wrote: »

In my experience, the lower the qualifications necessary for the job, the more difficult it will be to get, particularly if you don't speak Dutch. When I moved there in 2001, I had a well-paid job lined up in Delft, qualified under the 30% ruling (actually 35% back then, IIRC) and was just missing that vital element - a place to live. The company went bust the day before I was due to start so I ended up falling back on plan B, a lower-paid job in programming in Eindhoven.

I didn't speak, or need to speak any Dutch for this as the owner was English and the 90% Dutch staff spoke English in all meetings and inter-office communcation - even at lunch-time to accommodate the foreigners. It was an absolutely boring job though and the mentality of the people there was impossible to get used to. That place closed down too and I eventually did a few manual jobs before call-centering and then back into IT. The first and only requirements for the manual jobs were conversational Dutch and a thick skin. Between jobs I was on the list to be a part-time binman, but there were hundreds of people registered for it and I never got called.

Accommodation was imposible to find in the beginning. If you weren't on a list for at least 5 years you couldn't get rent-controlled accommodation (a lot of people register their children for this list at birth) and renting privately was an absolute nightmare - the letting agencies dealt almost exclusively with ex-pats and pulled every trick in the book to shaft us. We eventually had to get a lawyer to sort that out.

When we did get a place to live, it was a fantastic house for really low rent (€300 a month for a 3-bedroom terraced house with garden) in a mediocre part of town, but I have to stress that we only got this place thanks to an extremely fortunate series of coincidences; if not, we'd still be on that list.

Eindhoven, though, is ugly and dull. Very conveniently laid out, easily accessible and 'livable' but the biggest attractions are the train station and airport. It's a comparatively cheap place to live and even the much lower salaries than in Ireland go a lot further.

In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it.

Cheers for that info bro.
Just as regards the jobs and accommodation, say for example bigkev on the other thread on holland here, he picked up a job in a bar in a relatively short space of time, was that just really lucky, are casual jobs really that hard to come by?

In terms of accommodation I have been looking mainly on xpatrentals.com I have been looking for a room in a studio apartment or a really small place or something and there seems to be plenty. I have not made any contact with any of them yet but would you think these are genuine?

Its just your comment
"In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it."
that throws me slightly.
Not to say that I think your wrong or anything along those lines, not at all, in fact I have heard that sentiment echoed by a couple of others, but its just the kind of thing thats really gonna make me think twice about going.

I have been to a few other cities and countries and in my experience there are never jobs falling out of the sky but I have always picked up something in the end. Is holland just a different type of place altogether where this may not just happen?
Cheers again

denhaagenite

¨In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it."

I think we've all told you this. I don't even know if there's anything more we can tell you to be honest. There's only so many ways you can ask two questions.

Off topic though, since there's plenty of boardsies in het Nederlands, should we start a general Holland thread with a view to having a social at some point? They've got one for Canada...

Tuesday_Girl

denhaagenite wrote: »

¨In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it."

I think we've all told you this. I don't even know if there's anything more we can tell you to be honest. There's only so many ways you can ask two questions.

Off topic though, since there's plenty of boardsies in het Nederlands, should we start a general Holland thread with a view to having a social at some point? They've got one for Canada...

Good idea, I'd be on for a meetup of the Dutch-based boardsies

denhaagenite

Well we're in the Hague but can travel within reason if necessary.... I guess most are in Amsterdam? We'll be moving to Eindhoven next month aswell.

m@cc@

denhaagenite wrote: »

Off topic though, since there's plenty of boardsies in het Nederlands, should we start a general Holland thread with a view to having a social at some point? They've got one for Canada...

Man, I left the Netherlands a few months ago after living in Utrecht for a year. Oh well, I still plan to go back to visit on a regular basis as I still have friends there. I'm in Tasmania, Australia now which in many ways seems like an extension of the Netherlands.

JamMasterG

denhaagenite wrote: »

¨In summary, I would say if you have either a sure job or a sure place to live lined up, it could be worth a shot; if not, don't even think about it."

I think we've all told you this. I don't even know if there's anything more we can tell you to be honest. There's only so many ways you can ask two questions.

Off topic though, since there's plenty of boardsies in het Nederlands, should we start a general Holland thread with a view to having a social at some point? They've got one for Canada...

Nah there is one more thing bro.
As regards social welfare, as in claiming the dole, being an EU citizen I assume this is possible. Anyone know the situation there??

m@cc@

JamMasterG wrote: »

Nah there is one more thing bro.
As regards social welfare, as in claiming the dole, being an EU citizen I assume this is possible. Anyone know the situation there??

The Dutch welfare system is relatively cushy if you're entitled to it. However, if you don't speak much Dutch, prepare for a long fight (and that goes for all public authorities).